If Deryni used all their powers

[MerchantDeryni]

I was reading the Deryni Magic book again to get ideas for the two sets of stories I am playing around with, Camberland and Locker Six. When reading just what Deryni can do to an unshielded mind just from simple contact. In a situation where a Deryni feels he can act without limit there is not a lot a human can do. Even Deryni can be compelled to act horrbly. This gets into the morality and ethics of power and the use of those powers on people, which is exactly the murky moral area I like to write about.

Has anyone else thought about just how nasty a Deryni could be?

Things from the stories that jump to mind are Humphrey and the baptismal salt. Humphrey was captured and forced by Imre to strike at the Haldane line. A trained Deryni was compelled to murder a child and then attack Cinhil against his will (Camber of Culdi 274-277). What chance would a human have of resisteing an order from a Deryni bent on imposing his wishes.

Anyone else thought of how dark and Dangerous a Deryni can make things for people?

[Evie]

Has anyone else thought about just how nasty a Deryni could be?

and

Anyone else thought of how dark and Dangerous a Deryni can make things for people?

Heh.  You must not have read my story Possessed yet.  

[Alkari]

Anyone else thought of how dark and Dangerous a Deryni can make things for people?

Yes of course!   The 'dark side' of power use is inherent in all the books really - we probably first got the idea though after meeting Wencit in HD.   Morgan expressed this very well when he talks to Dhugal and explains about Deryni using the fire analogy. Their "powers" exist and are neither good nor bad, so it always comes down to the person who uses them, their motivations, and 'how' powers are used.   

Plus people who just pick up bits and pieces along the way, not understanding all the ramifications and moral issues about power use, can be extremely dangerous, sometimes without meaning to be.  It's one of the reasons behind Kelson wanting to establish the Schola.

[Elkhound]

I get the impression that Merchantdeyrni has gotten the impression that KK is depicting Deyrni as all high-minded idealists who would never even DREAM of misusing their powers, and is thinking that s/he is being very clever at deconstructing the utopian fantasy world KK has constructed.  We've seen a lot of this sort of thing in the Harry Potter fandom also.  The kindest thing one can say about both is that such fans must have read the canon on a rather superficial level.

[Evie]

I don't get that impression at all, and while you might not have meant it as such, your post comes across more like a personal attack on the author rather than a simple disagreement with his premises or themes.  You do realize, I hope, that when an author creates a thread, chances are he also follows comments made to said thread?  Could you not have found some way of expressing your opinion, if it needed to be expressed at all, that was a little less inflammatory and reminiscent of making catty comments about someone behind his back but where he's certain to overhear? 

What I see in the stories is a fascination with Deryni magical "technology" (if that's the right term for it), especially with regard to Transfer Portals, and also an interest in seeing how Deryni culture might change and develop if brought out of a Western European setting and into a New World sort of setting.  And as I recall, there were quite a few people--yourself included--who expressed a desire in the "Stories we'd like to see" thread for Deryni stories set in the Age of Exploration.  Well, finally someone is sitting down and writing just that!  Granted, the stories have a different "feel" to them than the stories set in the Eleven Kingdoms.  They're going to, though; you can't just transplant a European-like colony to a completely different part of that world, with a totally different climate, ecosystem, indigenous population, etc., and not have it start to look and feel quite different from the culture of its origin.  And yes, he's shown us the darker side of Deryni nature at times, but people in survival situations don't always take the moral high ground, and since--as you allude to--KK's Deryni aren't always high-minded stewards of their powers despite most of the central character Deryni having a definite bent towards the Light, neither would I expect a Deryni story set elsewhere to ignore the "dark side" of wielding such gifts.  (Though granted, I hope we'll see some more benevolent uses as well.)   I also see a fascination with alternate technologies in general, and how some might be incorporated into a New World Deryni type of society.

Now granted, the resulting stories of such explorations might not be everyone's cup of tea.  If they're not yours, then just don't read them.  It's really easy to ignore a thread or story you dislike and go find some other story or discussion you enjoy reading more instead.  But please, we don't exactly have such an excess of fanfic authors on this board that we can afford to risk running new authors off with in-your-face rudeness!  I've had years to develop a thick skin, and despite that, I'd still be far more sensitive to someone criticizing me rather than simply critiquing one of my stories.  There's a vast difference.  Criticize a story plot or a character's actions, and I'll either defend my decisions (usually with whatever research or canon story evidence I've based them on) or else concede the point if I realize I've committed an oopsie.  Start launching a personal attack on me, though, and I'll be torn between finding a friendlier forum to play in and/or leaping through the monitor to ram someone's keyboard very deeply where the sun don't shine.  And maybe it's just the Mama Bear in me, but I'd rather welcome and nurture the new authors on this board than see this forum become too hostile a playground for fledgling writers. 

/Mama Bear stands down and shuffles off in search of a honey tree

[Elkhound]

If MerchantDeryni took offense, I will certainly apologize, for I meant none.  But I would hope that we are also all big girls & boys here who can take a little rough-and-tumble.

I do rather like M.D.'s stories--although they are hardly above criticism.

[Alkari]

I get the impression that Merchantdeyrni has gotten the impression that KK is depicting Deyrni as all high-minded idealists who would never even DREAM of misusing their powers, and is thinking that s/he is being very clever at deconstructing the utopian fantasy world KK has constructed.  We've seen a lot of this sort of thing in the Harry Potter fandom also.  The kindest thing one can say about both is that such fans must have read the canon on a rather superficial level.

I didn't get that impression at all - I thought MD was exploring the possibilities of people really using their Deryni powers for evil, or at least being more morally questionable.  The threat of such misuse is basic to the whole human/ Deryni conflict, and human fears about what the Deryni could or might be able to do.  Those fears have exaggerated some of the Deryni powers of course, but it seems that there was enough understanding about 'what' the Deryni were capable of, to form a reasonable basis for those fears.    I don't know whether s/he (MD) has read the two Camber-era trilogies though, because there is certainly plenty of Deryni 'darkness' in those.   There are also occasional glimpses of the issue in the later Kelson books - I recall that little bit in KKB where Morgan calls Kelson as to whether he (Kelson) would use his powers to compel people such as Nigel to do his bidding.   

[tenworld]

I thought the way Wencit used Sean was about as evil as Deryni powers get, especially with the hints of sexual abuse.  there are enough stories out there that are mostly about evil, I got bored with Steven King long ago.  Enough evil to be a multi dimensional antagonist is enough for me. I see enough in real live.

[MerchantDeryni]

No offense taken. I'm a big boy.

My fascination is with the Transfer Portals. And with alternative tech including maggots because I think that is a neat idea. So I throw them into the story.
Impact of both power and technology on a society and its outcome is also an interest.

So I have a clean village, no waste, and 20 percent more food available. So the Camberlanders can develop high density chicken operations. This means more protein,which means more kids surviving. Which means more Deryni.

As for the portals, they are the time, energy savers. A 300 mile limit per jump allows massive leaps in communication. How to exploit that system is, for me, an exercise in creativity on the part of the network user. Fast trade, fast information flow, smuggling, espionage, kidnapping. etc.

The dark powers aspect comes from re-reading the Deryni Magic book with an eye to a no limits application of power. If you only had 50 Deryni on an island, and wanted to preserve your culture, what would you do. Surprisingly you can do quite a bit with what KK wrote.  the same reasoning applies to Locker 6 where the Deryni are smuggling drugs. If they want to 'win' and keep operating, what can they do? Almost anything, especially with what I have in mind next.

The moral murkiness is in contrast to the ideals expressed by Camber, leavened with his own ends justifies the means steps he takes. A decades long doppelganging is pretty extreme. The use of truth reading as a method if privacy invasion and the need for the state to protect itself. The striving to be gracious with their gifts and the reverence that they feel towards the religious aspects is nicely balanced by the willingness to do what it takes to achieve their own ends.

And because I have re-read all the books and know the canon material to place people and dates I made a new place, because it is easier for me to do so, and because I like the idea of trying to tackle forge a nation with iron age weapons, no guns. It would be an interesting challenge to say the least. It would be made far easier if you could gift a local ruler with wine and rum and shake his hand and have him obey you and not attack you. Shades of the Illuminati pulling strings.

I see a lot of idealism in facets of KK's work, the religious orders, the healers. Then there is the reality of how that fits into 'the real world'. It would be so tempting to make things go your way, people to agree with you. Slippery slope indeed.

So that is what I write about. As Evie pointed out. If you don't like my story ideas, don't read them. Or read them and disagree with them. I already realized a huge plot miss in Locker 6 I have to deal with. oops, my bad. I just wanted to write and picked goats, maggots, teleportation and ganja to write about.

[tenworld]

And because I have re-read all the books and know the canon material to place people and dates I made a new place, because it is easier for me to do so, and because I like the idea of trying to tackle forge a nation with iron age weapons, no guns. It would be an interesting challenge to say the least. It would be made far easier if you could gift a local ruler with wine and rum and shake his hand and have him obey you and not attack you. Shades of the Illuminati pulling strings.

So when is Civilisation XII: Deryni World available?

[MerchantDeryni]

I should have proofread that reply. I have NOT re-read all the material to know the canon material well enough to try and insert my thoughts into the world,  I made a new land.

Well there is a Deryni rpg out, you could run a campaign where the players start to build their own empire.

The lure of the powers towards a slippery slope is an interesting dimension. Kelson casually instilling loyalty against gossip is a striking example. He wants his privacy and will compel it to make his life easier.  It is that kind of thinking that (to my mind at least) led to the excesses of Imre.

[tenworld]

my comment was meant as a joke, hope you didnt take as criticism.  I am not interested in role playing games, but Civilization with a Deryni slant does have some intrigue. 

[derynifanatic64]

my comment was meant as a joke, hope you didnt take as criticism.  I am not interested in role playing games, but Civilization with a Deryni slant does have some intrigue. 

I'd like to try that game.

[MerchantDeryni]

Every Deryni controlled city could create a Portal nexus. People, troops and goods could move without movement cost, as long as the cities were within 300 miles of each other.

As long as the game does not descend into

http://www.guardian.co.uk/books/booksblog/2012/jun/13/civilization-ii-big-brother-orwell-1984

a 10 year long Civ 2 game, with a 1700 year long war.

In a Deryni Civ game your Doplomats would have the hypnotoad option of suberverting units or leaders and influencing decisons. Short term trade agreements, until the masses complain about unfair conditions. Could be interesting.