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Author Topic: The Demoiselle and Derry Chapter 7  (Read 33520 times)

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Offline AnnieUK

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The Demoiselle and Derry Chapter 7
« Reply #45 on: August 13, 2010, 09:41:52 am »
LOL at pilot light still lit - that so rings true with me!

Offline Evie

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The Demoiselle and Derry Chapter 7
« Reply #46 on: August 13, 2010, 09:53:47 am »
And 14 is the age of legal manhood in the Eleven Kingdoms.  Even my 15 year old son thinks that's a spectacularly bad idea!   Or as he put it, when I was trying to explain the premise behind DR to him, "Oh yeah, a 14 year old in charge of an entire Kingdom.  Like what could possibly go wrong with that plan?!"   :D

I adore Kelson.  But I'm glad he's the prodigy that he is, and I hope for Torenth's sake that Liam-Lajos can at least come close.  My kid's a bright fellow, but I'm still shuddering at the thought of him being in control of a huge moving chunk of steel with rubber tires this year.  I'd hate to think of waking up tomorrow morning and finding out my son has suddenly become my President, or even my Mayor!   ;D
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Offline Elkhound

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The Demoiselle and Derry Chapter 7
« Reply #47 on: August 13, 2010, 12:29:01 pm »
And 14 is the age of legal manhood in the Eleven Kingdoms.  Even my 15 year old son thinks that's a spectacularly bad idea!   Or as he put it, when I was trying to explain the premise behind DR to him, "Oh yeah, a 14 year old in charge of an entire Kingdom.  Like what could possibly go wrong with that plan?!"   :D

Well, in Midaeval times people didn't live much past 30, what with the bad hygene and rudimentary medical care.  14 is practically middle-aged!

Offline AnnieUK

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The Demoiselle and Derry Chapter 7
« Reply #48 on: August 13, 2010, 12:55:55 pm »
Was that true though, or was that life expectancy at birth?  If true, then Nigel and Alaric had better make sure they have their wills up to date and they seem pretty hale and hearty to me.

30 is normally bandied about as life expectancy in medieval times, but since there was a 50+% infant mortality rate that implies that there will be 60+ year olds still kicking around.  Life expectancy at 5 years old is a better indication, since a lot of the weaker ones will have been weeded out by 5 years old.

I know in my family tree (not as far back, obviously, but far back enough that life expectancy was 40-50 and out of one family of 16 only 8 kids made it past the age of 5, and dad was a doctor!) I was surprised to find a lot of ancestors living to 80+. 

Offline Evie

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The Demoiselle and Derry Chapter 7
« Reply #49 on: August 13, 2010, 01:02:07 pm »
True, in terms of average medieval lifespan, though one has to remember that "average lifespans" are calculated with things like high infant and geriatric mortality rates in mind.  So it wasn't necessarily true that the average Joe was ready to kick the bucket when he hit 30; as long as he remained hearty and hale, he could live to be 50, 60, 70, 80, even 90.  Lots of examples of old folk in the Middle Ages.  BUT if a person managed to make it past the fifth birthday, there were still a lot of dangers out there that could kill even the healthiest of men, and a lot of illnesses--some with extremely rapid onset--which were more likely to be fatal then then now, in our age of antibiotics and other powerful medications and greater surgical expertise.

That said, though, I get the impression that the average lifespan might be a bit longer in the idealized Middle Ages of the KK universe, at least among the nobility and certainly among the Deryni.  There's a part in ITKS where two Camberian Council members are discussing Sief's untimely death and wondering how it happened so suddenly and with no warning, because he was "only 60" (or in that ballpark) and had appeared to be in perfectly good health the week before.  The two discussing this were only a decade younger themselves (I'm thinking now that it was Seisyll Arilan and Michon de Courcy), and one of them made some reference to Sief not having been very old "for our kind."   That leads me to think that the average Deryni could expect to have a long life span unless he encountered some untimely death due to injury or mortal illness.  Or, of course, intolerant humans lighting them up as torches.

And if that's the case, then unless there were some highly disproportionate difference between Deryni lifespans and human ones, or assuming the Haldane powers don't confer some odd tendency towards a shorter lifespan, 14 is hardly "middle aged."    Even in our own Middle Ages, with 30 being the average life expectancy and young men and women being treated as adults and marrying much earlier than is the norm today, your average young man would still be in his early apprenticeship years at age 14 and not allowed to marry until he could support a wife, which might not happen until he was in his 20s at the earliest.  Girls were sometimes married in early to mid-teens, but the wiser minds of the day suggested not giving a daughter in marriage until her late teens so she'd be more likely to survive childbirth.  It was mainly among the wealthy that you had child marriages, mainly for dynastic reasons.  The teens and early-twenties were perceived to be technically "adult," but not yet mature, not yet what the Elizabethans would call "sober and sad" (the words don't mean the same thing they do today, but something more like "mature and wise").  The mark of full maturation was to reach that state of "sober and sad" and be in a position to provide for a wife and family.  At that point, a young man was considered to have entered the full estate of manhood instead of mere rash youth.

I suspect, even in Gwynedd, that the case is quite similar.  Kelson at 14 is of legal age, yes.  He is King in full power as of the moment of his birth 14 years after the fact.  However, he would still have been expected to rely quite heavily on his Royal Council's sage advice (well, with occasional lapses, usually sage advice, unless Jehana's running the show!), and until he proved he actually had the chops to handle his new job on his own, he'd have met with extremely stiff resistance the entire way if he'd acted with the rash impetuosity of the average 14 year old after becoming King.  Morgan and others would have had to find some way to bring the boy to heel until he could learn better wisdom and discernment.  Either that, or stand by and watch him cause the downfall of his Kingdom.
« Last Edit: August 13, 2010, 01:06:57 pm by Evie »
"In necessariis unitas, in non-necessariis libertas, in utrisque caritas."

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Offline Evie

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The Demoiselle and Derry Chapter 7
« Reply #50 on: August 13, 2010, 01:13:21 pm »
Was that true though, or was that life expectancy at birth?  If true, then Nigel and Alaric had better make sure they have their wills up to date and they seem pretty hale and hearty to me.

And Derry had better get a move on in fathering those heirs, because he's already 32!  Celsie'd better lock him in that bedchamber and not let him out again until she's knocked up, if he's approaching his expiration date.   ;)
"In necessariis unitas, in non-necessariis libertas, in utrisque caritas."

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Offline Evie

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The Demoiselle and Derry Chapter 7
« Reply #51 on: August 13, 2010, 02:05:05 pm »
Vivienne also probably married a deryni, given her open derision towards half-bloods, so she could conceivably have continued her training.

  In this sequence of stories Celsie has access to an Arilan through Sophie, and by now, wouldn't your Seisyl have as much training as Denis?  The need for a portal aspect still applies, and no one would be putting one in on a whim.  But if it comes down to it, Celsie could probably get her friends to help with power, and then if they included Alaric or Richenda, and if whoever led walked everybody else through it, then they'd all have the knowledge, and it would all come down to power again.  But all of them have access to at least four to six deryni friends, and assorted cooperative humans by now--if they can manage to get everybody in one place at the same time.
I can't figure out how better to phrase all that and it's a bit confusing, but I tried.

I have no clue how I missed seeing this message last night.   :)  But yes, Seisyll the Younger and his siblings would've had the full advantages of all the Deryni training they could possibly squeeze in.  And even the Arilan girls would have more training than most, being unmarried still and therefore more able to devote themselves to their arcane studies full-time.  (Though Javana's betrothed and expected to marry in late summer of 1126, but presumably to a Deryni man who would support her continuing education if she decides she wants to continue.)

That said, what they probably still lack is the sort of practical experience that comes with only years and years of arcane practice, and that's something only the passage of time and the exposure to learning opportunities can grant.  Seisyll may have full theoretical knowledge of how to build a Transfer Portal.  Whether he's actually had a chance to put that knowledge to use yet, I don't know. 

Though if he knows how, I can already hear his brother Sextus grumbling, "Next time you need an urgent message sent on to behind-the-backside-of-beyond Pelagog in the dead of winter, you can bloody well do it yourself! And while you're up there, build us a TP somewhere up that way, in case Kelson decides he needs another Arilan miracle!"   

Seisyll:  "What, you didn't install one while you were already up there?   You mean you can't manage to create one single-handedly, with your eyes closed and one hand tied behind your back?  What sort of Arilan are you?  When are you going to start pulling your weight around here, boyo?"  ;D
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Offline Elkhound

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The Demoiselle and Derry Chapter 7
« Reply #52 on: August 13, 2010, 02:52:22 pm »
And Derry had better get a move on in fathering those heirs, because he's already 32!  Celsie'd better lock him in that bedchamber and not let him out again until she's knocked up, if he's approaching his expiration date.   ;)

What do you think all that embroidery was for?

Offline Elkhound

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« Reply #53 on: August 13, 2010, 03:12:24 pm »
I suspect, even in Gwynedd, that the case is quite similar.  Kelson at 14 is of legal age, yes.  He is King in full power as of the moment of his birth 14 years after the fact.  However, he would still have been expected to rely quite heavily on his Royal Council's sage advice (well, with occasional lapses, usually sage advice, unless Jehana's running the show!), and until he proved he actually had the chops to handle his new job on his own, he'd have met with extremely stiff resistance the entire way if he'd acted with the rash impetuosity of the average 14 year old after becoming King.  Morgan and others would have had to find some way to bring the boy to heel until he could learn better wisdom and discernment.  Either that, or stand by and watch him cause the downfall of his Kingdom.

The point was made that legal adulthood might not be until 14, but knighthood was usually witheld until 18.

Even with us, one may be technically and adult at 18, but nobody really takes your seriously until you're in your mid-twenties.

Offline DesertRose

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The Demoiselle and Derry Chapter 7
« Reply #54 on: August 13, 2010, 05:30:40 pm »
On the topic of average lifespans/life expectancy in the Middle Ages, one must also remember that a LOT of women died in childbirth or shortly thereafter from complications thereof, at relatively young ages, so that torques the numbers a bit too.  Nuns in the middle ages were likely to live into their 70s or so, because they weren't bearing children.  Also, women who survived to go through menopause were likely to live as long as women do today; surviving those dangerous years of childbearing (which remained a hazardous undertaking well into the 20th C.) generally meant you'd live to be quite old.

Also, the numbers are torqued a bit due to high infant/child mortality rates.  Surviving long enough to grow up tended to mean you'd make it to 50 or so anyway, barring violence.  So I don't think Derry is too close to expiring, barring battles or skirmishes or swordfights.
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Offline Elkhound

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« Reply #55 on: August 13, 2010, 08:43:47 pm »
Also, the numbers are torqued a bit due to high infant/child mortality rates.  Surviving long enough to grow up tended to mean you'd make it to 50 or so anyway, barring violence.  So I don't think Derry is too close to expiring, barring battles or skirmishes or swordfights.

And he is involved in so few of those!

Offline Evie

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« Reply #56 on: August 13, 2010, 09:49:03 pm »
Also, the numbers are torqued a bit due to high infant/child mortality rates.  Surviving long enough to grow up tended to mean you'd make it to 50 or so anyway, barring violence.  So I don't think Derry is too close to expiring, barring battles or skirmishes or swordfights.

And he is involved in so few of those!

*snicker*

Well, with the unrest in Meara finally settled, and an alliance with Torenth finally appearing to be in reach, not to mention more widespread acceptance of Deryni and the repeal of the Statutes of Ramos making it less likely that anti-Deryni violence will break out again and need to be suppressed, there's a good chance of Derry enjoying a bit of peace, at least for a little while.

Of course, in 1132, I'm going to upset the apple cart a bit....   :D

(What happens in 1132?  Well, that's for me to know and for you to find out...eventually...once I get enough of it written to start posting the story here....  Muahahahaha!!!   ;D )
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Offline Gyrfalcon64207

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« Reply #57 on: August 13, 2010, 11:38:01 pm »
And Dan/Aidan Draper/Haldane lives to 83 in the interregnum, while we're talking about life expectancy.  If I remember correctly, Rhys felt that that was rather old.

Offline Evie

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« Reply #58 on: August 14, 2010, 12:58:09 am »
And little wonder...I think 83 is pretty old too, even in 2010!   :D
"In necessariis unitas, in non-necessariis libertas, in utrisque caritas."

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Offline Alkari

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« Reply #59 on: August 14, 2010, 02:58:19 am »
Only 83?  Heck, in my family, that's just about average life expectancy.  :D

As my dear brother once announced at a family member's 70th birthday:  "Medical science has at last established the key to long life.  Choose your parents carefully."




 


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