collapse

Author Topic: Morgan/Richenda wedding and their trust Issue  (Read 7171 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Wren

  • Commoner
  • ***
  • Posts: 10
  • Karma: 0
Morgan/Richenda wedding and their trust Issue
« on: July 01, 2019, 10:28:31 PM »
I have been fascinated with the actual details of Morgan/ Richenda’s romance. It seemed to have happened so quickly, in the first trilogy, and they are married with Briony in the second. I know it was in Marley on May 1, but that is all we are told. I would love to have seen more of their love developing, the fact that Morgan can finally be himself with this woman. That he has met his match.

I wish there would have been scenes of Morgan telling his staff that their long bachelor Duke was marrying the widow of Bran Coris.

I don’t think anyone at Coroth knew Richenda was Dernyi.
I would have loved some detail on Richenda’s life at Coroth after Morgan married her and pretty much abandoned her among people who distrusted her. I know the book claims he is “ besotted” with her, but that was not the act of a loving husband. . I think she was quite unhappy there despite her love for Morgan.
One of his major flaws in my opinion, was his failure provide a place in his castle for his new wife, who he claimed to love. He knew his men distrusted her due to Bran, and he knew she was miserable at Coroth, yet he allowed this situation to continue for years, right up to Kelric’s birth. He did leave Derry there as sort of a buffer, I guess. Derry points out that he is closer to Morgan’s wife than Morgan is, a point which is true and unflattering to Morgan.
In the books, they claim he doesn’t want to hurt Richenda by telling her the men distrust her, but that is cowardly. He should have established her as his regent in his absence early on, and dealt with the problems between her and his men.

I love Morgan, but this has always been a huge flaw in my opinion. He abandons the woman he loves to people who are rude to her. She is miserable and he knows it yet he does nothing about it for years.




Offline HoundMistress

  • Community Supporter
  • *****
  • Posts: 303
  • Karma: 2
  • Gender: Female
  • Favorite Book: The originals & Childe Morgan
  • Favorite Character: Alaric Anthony Morgan
Re: Morgan/Richenda wedding and their trust Issue
« Reply #1 on: July 01, 2019, 10:52:32 PM »
A good point, but I don't think she blamed Alaric for her unhappiness. Yes, he should have stood up for her to his stewards and officers. They should never have been allowed to tell him they wouldn't be responsible if something happened. That was disloyalty to their Duke. He should have set them straight about that at once.

 A man in Morgan's position, which was essentially the same as his father's position with the old king, required him to be in Rhemuth or traveling on the king's business a good bit of the time. I think Richenda probably joined him in Rhemuth when circumstances permitted, as she is very familiar with the palace, their apartments & the people in the castle, despite not having been there a lot before Morgan came into her life.

In those time period circumstances, a high ranking courtier's loyalty was expected to be God, his Sovereign, and his family, in that order. Richenda knew that to be the case, having been reared in a noble family. I think she was grateful to be able to marry for love and not be married off to some backwoods noble just to get her and her son out of the way. After all, she was "just a woman," which was not all that much fun in those times.

So yes, her life as Duchess had parts that were not enjoyable for her, but being married to the man she loved and knowing the circumstances of his duty to his King would have given her purpose and happiness in her life, just not all the time.
Judy Ward
You can buy a pretty good dog with money but you can't buy the wag of its tail.

Offline revanne

  • Community Supporter
  • *****
  • Posts: 1797
  • Karma: 17
  • Gender: Female
  • Favorite Book: King Javan's Year
  • Favorite Character: Father Joram MacRorie
Re: Morgan/Richenda wedding and their trust Issue
« Reply #2 on: July 02, 2019, 07:22:05 AM »
I don't think that Alaric is being deliberately unkind,  in his head he has convinced himself that he is protecting Richenda from being hurt by the false suspicion of her. And it just now occurs to me that because the situation is exacerbated by the fact that their first child is a girl he maybe doesn't want Richenda to feel that she has failed him by not producing a boy.

In fairness too he has been rather busy as King's champion with a rebellion in Meara amongst other things, and, as Judyward points out, Richenda's emotional well-being would not have been expected to be high on his list of priorities, if at all.

I'm not sure that I agree that he should have corrected his officers, or at least not without being able to have the time to do it in a non-authoritarian way. I think Alaric knows how much he owes to the loyalty of his people, especially when Loris and Warin were creating havoc. And he clearly feels a responsibility which is personal and not just feudal - it is the threat of an Interdict on his Duchy which affects him in the way his own excommunication doesn't and leads him to go to St Torin's in the first place. I don't think he would want to repay that loyalty by hauling them over the coals.

I also think that Richenda knows full well just how lucky she has been to be rescued from what could have been her lot as the wife of a traitor - and one moreover whose treachery had led to the decimation of Duke Jared's army and his own shameful death. There is clearly a spark between them, and she is confident enough in his love to come to Rhemuth without his permission, and then seduce him out of his anger.

Having said all that I do think that he has a habit of hoping that if he ignores problems they will just go away. He doesn't know what to do about Richenda and Coroth so he ignores it; he doesn't know what to do, and feels guilty about about Derry's issues with magic post Wencit so he ignores it, only facing it in KKB when the issue is forced.



God is our refuge and strength, a very present help in trouble.
(Psalm 46 v1)

Offline DesertRose

  • Administrator
  • ******
  • Posts: 2097
  • Karma: 26
  • Gender: Female
  • Favorite Book: Deryni Magic
  • Favorite Character: Rhys Thuryn *sob*
Re: Morgan/Richenda wedding and their trust Issue
« Reply #3 on: July 02, 2019, 12:07:53 PM »
I don't think that Alaric is being deliberately unkind,  in his head he has convinced himself that he is protecting Richenda from being hurt by the false suspicion of her. And it just now occurs to me that because the situation is exacerbated by the fact that their first child is a girl he maybe doesn't want Richenda to feel that she has failed him by not producing a boy.

In fairness too he has been rather busy as King's champion with a rebellion in Meara amongst other things, and, as Judyward points out, Richenda's emotional well-being would not have been expected to be high on his list of priorities, if at all.

I'm not sure that I agree that he should have corrected his officers, or at least not without being able to have the time to do it in a non-authoritarian way. I think Alaric knows how much he owes to the loyalty of his people, especially when Loris and Warin were creating havoc. And he clearly feels a responsibility which is personal and not just feudal - it is the threat of an Interdict on his Duchy which affects him in the way his own excommunication doesn't and leads him to go to St Torin's in the first place. I don't think he would want to repay that loyalty by hauling them over the coals.

I also think that Richenda knows full well just how lucky she has been to be rescued from what could have been her lot as the wife of a traitor - and one moreover whose treachery had led to the decimation of Duke Jared's army and his own shameful death. There is clearly a spark between them, and she is confident enough in his love to come to Rhemuth without his permission, and then seduce him out of his anger.

Having said all that I do think that he has a habit of hoping that if he ignores problems they will just go away. He doesn't know what to do about Richenda and Coroth so he ignores it; he doesn't know what to do, and feels guilty about about Derry's issues with magic post Wencit so he ignores it, only facing it in KKB when the issue is forced.

I think [member=28354]revanne[/member] has hit it here; Alaric's most visible fault is just that tendency: to ignore problems hoping they'll go away on their own until/unless they blow up in his face.

In his defense, I think, Morgan having grown up and lived his entire life up until early middle age in a culture that hated him for an element of his identity that he could not change, he grew accustomed to hiding a great deal, and I think the "maybe if I ignore it, it'll just go away on its own" tendency is a manifestation of living on that razor's edge of being tolerated (in some cases just barely) as a Deryni because of his usefulness to the Crown.

Was it kind or considerate to Richenda?  Of course not.  But that deep-seated habit, formed from the time he could speak if not earlier, is hard to overcome.

And from a character-development perspective, he has to have a few faults or else he'd be too perfect.  :)
"If having a soul means being able to feel love, loyalty, and gratitude, then animals are better off than a lot of humans."

James Herriot (James Alfred "Alfie" Wight), when a human client asked him if animals have souls.  (I don't remember in which book the story originally appeared.)

Offline Laurna

  • Community Supporter
  • *****
  • Posts: 2437
  • Karma: 20
  • Gender: Female
  • Favorite Book: Deryni Checkmate and King Kelson's Bride
  • Favorite Character: Alaric Morgan & Rhys Thuryn-May they be Family.
Re: Morgan/Richenda wedding and their trust Issue
« Reply #4 on: July 02, 2019, 02:21:58 PM »

And from a character-development perspective, he has to have a few faults or else he'd be too perfect.  :)

I like that, DR.  Actually I agree with all the above.

I would like to think that the first year of their marriage, they were both deep in romance. Richenda likely spent a lot of time at her husband's side in Rhemuth. That is why she is so familiar and beloved by the king. It was likely a year-long honeymoon for them both. She would feel saved from a horrid fate, and her first son  protected from his father's failures, and Alaric finally finding someone he could trust implicitly. In the first year of marriage they didn't need more than that.

It would not be until the birth of their daughter that Richenda would have settled down in Coroth. At first she might have just been the good mother and had not even had thoughts about become Corwyn's regent. She had Derry and he would have been a good go between for her and the Coroth steward. So very likely it would have been after year two of their marriage when the strain of her wanting to take on a greater roll of Duchess becomes a conflict between her and the steward's.  So it really wasn't that long a time before Morgan  realize the seriousness of the problem, I am sure it nagged at him for months, but he was busy with the troubles of the realm and could not confront the problem directly, until finally he had to face it straight on.  I agree he does ignore some problems hoping they will work themselves out.

And of course, Richenda solved the problem by producing an Heir to the duchy. Which was not as important to Alaric as it was to his people.

Offline Shiral

  • Zipper Sister
  • ****
  • Posts: 734
  • Karma: 11
  • Gender: Female
Re: Morgan/Richenda wedding and their trust Issue
« Reply #5 on: July 06, 2019, 01:12:58 AM »
Is Alaric and Richenda's marriage perfect? We've seen the evidence that it's not, quite.
Would they both rather be married to one another than to anyone else?  Absolutely! Love matches weren't easy to come by for nobility, and I think they both know they're incredibly lucky to be together. There is genuine love, respect and caring between them which is an enormous gift in any marriage. And then they have some really cute kids between them.

Looking at it from Richenda's perspective, even if Alaric isn't always at home, and even when she's exasperated enough with him to yank the table cloth off the table in front of him, this IS the man she loves like crazy and the father she wants for her children. No marriage is perfect, and in Corwyn, she can once again occupy herself with the studies she loves. So she has love, children, a great position and a mostly happy home and her eldest son by her first marriage is still in her care.
 
As a traitor's widow Richenda could have faced some very bleak futures, had Kelson been a different sort of King.  She might have been executed, herself. She might have been bundled off to spend the rest of her life in a convent (Or a dungeon), knowing Brendan would be separated from her and she might never see him again. And that he might be taught to hate her or blame her for their misfortunes.  She might have been hastily married off to some minor lord with a remote holding and be tied to a man she didn't know or love. Brendan might still have been taken away from her. She might have a brute for a new husband who would treat her badly or possibly Brendan if she'd been allowed to keep him with her.  Instead, she has Alaric who has not only given Richenda more children but has treated her son with scrupulous fairness and kindness. She has a good thing going here, and she knows it.

Looking at it from Alaric's perspective, he's finally found a woman he loves; he's just spent most of his life as a bachelor and can't find his copy of "Ye Olde Marriage Maintenance." His King has blessed the match, and he has secured the Corwyn succession. It's not the easiest thing when your new bride's  previous husband was a traitor, and yes, Morgan took his time telling Richenda the truth about the problems in Corwyn, and the suspicions of his staff.  But he DOES finally tell her, even if she had to force the issue.

From Kelson's perspective the match between Alaric and Richenda makes a lot of sense, also. In terms of hard-headed security for the Kingdom, marrying a traitor's widow to a man whose loyalties he can be absolutely sure of (Morgan) is an elegant solution. Morgan is also a good candidate as stepfather to the future Earl of Marley, (who happens to be a Deryni child). There IS no better candidate for fostering and protecting Brendan than Morgan in the Kingdom, both in political and esoteric terms. Kelson also knows how much he owes Morgan, and was probably glad to do his most loyal friend and Duke a good turn by approving the match between these two people deeply in love.  He is pleased to have the Corwyn succession secured, and  his own Privy Council can't argue with his reasons for consenting to the marriage. HE knows he can do this big thing for Morgan which is probably the best way he could ever reward Morgan's loyalty.

Melissa
You can have a sound mind in a healthy body--Or you can be a nanonovelist!

Offline Laurna

  • Community Supporter
  • *****
  • Posts: 2437
  • Karma: 20
  • Gender: Female
  • Favorite Book: Deryni Checkmate and King Kelson's Bride
  • Favorite Character: Alaric Morgan & Rhys Thuryn-May they be Family.
Re: Morgan/Richenda wedding and their trust Issue
« Reply #6 on: July 06, 2019, 03:09:58 AM »
That is a good summation, Shiral.  I agree :D

Offline DerynifanK

  • Community Supporter
  • *****
  • Posts: 747
  • Karma: 8
  • Gender: Female
  • Favorite Book: King Kelson's Bride
  • Favorite Character: Kelson and Alaric, couldn't choose
Re: Morgan/Richenda wedding and their trust Issue
« Reply #7 on: July 06, 2019, 07:11:49 AM »
Great summation, Shiral. Love it. And I think that while no one has a perfect marriage, this one is probably as close as one can get.
"Thanks be to God there are still, as there always have been and always will be, more good men than evil in this world, and their cause will prevail." Brother Cadfael's Penance

Offline DesertRose

  • Administrator
  • ******
  • Posts: 2097
  • Karma: 26
  • Gender: Female
  • Favorite Book: Deryni Magic
  • Favorite Character: Rhys Thuryn *sob*
Re: Morgan/Richenda wedding and their trust Issue
« Reply #8 on: July 06, 2019, 10:00:35 AM »
Great summation, Shiral. Love it. And I think that while no one has a perfect marriage, this one is probably as close as one can get.

This one, and I think Rhys' and Evaine's marriage was another example of "as good as it gets" (in a positive connotation).  No human is perfect, thus no relationship between two people is going to be perfect.  But some are pretty darn good.  :)

I really wish KK hadn't lost her notes on how Alaric is descended from Rhys and Evaine; [member=18693]Laurna[/member] 's genealogy work is probably at least close to the mark, if not right on target, though.
"If having a soul means being able to feel love, loyalty, and gratitude, then animals are better off than a lot of humans."

James Herriot (James Alfred "Alfie" Wight), when a human client asked him if animals have souls.  (I don't remember in which book the story originally appeared.)

Offline Wren

  • Commoner
  • ***
  • Posts: 10
  • Karma: 0
Re: Morgan/Richenda wedding and their trust Issue
« Reply #9 on: July 06, 2019, 05:25:51 PM »
Thanks everyone for your thoughts on this. It is true Morgan has a flaw of ignoring problems and hoping they go away. I can see how this might make it worse.

I think for Alaric, Richenda is the woman he loves because he can be all of himself with her. She also brings out his scholarly side. She is smart and powerful and he is secur enough to be ok with that.

I still want a short story about their wedding and early introduction to Coroth though. Might be a good fic topic.

Offline Laurna

  • Community Supporter
  • *****
  • Posts: 2437
  • Karma: 20
  • Gender: Female
  • Favorite Book: Deryni Checkmate and King Kelson's Bride
  • Favorite Character: Alaric Morgan & Rhys Thuryn-May they be Family.
Re: Morgan/Richenda wedding and their trust Issue
« Reply #10 on: July 06, 2019, 07:08:37 PM »


Quote
I still want a short story about their wedding and early introduction to Coroth though. Might be a good fic topic.

Hah! Well then, in that case this is a must read for you!
http://www.rhemuthcastle.com/index.php?topic=469.0

An excellent fan fic by Alkari. A Gryphon by the Tail.  An absolute must read, and one of my favorites.

Offline Wren

  • Commoner
  • ***
  • Posts: 10
  • Karma: 0
Re: Morgan/Richenda wedding and their trust Issue
« Reply #11 on: July 06, 2019, 08:21:01 PM »
Yes, I have actually read that story a few times. It is a great story! But I’ d Love a sequel that shows the wedding and how she is introduced to Corwin. It must have been quite an introduction. I would write that myself but I am not that talented.

Offline Shiral

  • Zipper Sister
  • ****
  • Posts: 734
  • Karma: 11
  • Gender: Female
Re: Morgan/Richenda wedding and their trust Issue
« Reply #12 on: July 07, 2019, 01:39:49 AM »
Thanks everyone for your thoughts on this. It is true Morgan has a flaw of ignoring problems and hoping they go away. I can see how this might make it worse.

I think for Alaric, Richenda is the woman he loves because he can be all of himself with her. She also brings out his scholarly side. She is smart and powerful and he is secur enough to be ok with that.

I still want a short story about their wedding and early introduction to Coroth though. Might be a good fic topic.

Yup. I want to see KK write HER version of Alaric and Richenda's wedding (And hopefully the circumstances that lead to it) first of all.   And yes it would probably be a good fic topic, too.

I think Richenda realizes when you've married a Duke and a member of the Privy Council AND the King's Champion to a young King still ascending the learning curve, he has duties he cannot shirk, and ties he does not want to sever.  Richenda herself admits  that Kelson and Duncan were Alaric's family before he even met her. She doesn't want or expect him to break those ties, because both Kelson and Duncan have become part of HER extended family, also.  (And you want to stay in the good books of the King who has been extraordinarily generous to you and your son.) I think her pride was wounded that she was not granted even the status of being properly the mistress of her household, at first, let alone the ducal regent. Bran accorded her her proper status as his wife, but Alaric didn't. That had to have bothered her, and more and more when he wouldn't really explain why. And you're completely right that it was a failing on his part. I also think he's learned a valuable lesson about not treating her very real  issues as an emotional fit due to being nearly 9 months pregnant, OR to tell her "don't worry your pretty head about ____"
 
Melissa
You can have a sound mind in a healthy body--Or you can be a nanonovelist!

Offline HoundMistress

  • Community Supporter
  • *****
  • Posts: 303
  • Karma: 2
  • Gender: Female
  • Favorite Book: The originals & Childe Morgan
  • Favorite Character: Alaric Anthony Morgan
Re: Morgan/Richenda wedding and their trust Issue
« Reply #13 on: July 07, 2019, 08:46:56 AM »
Completely agree, M, and so glad Kelson was mature enough (or immature enough, maybe, ) to give Alaric the greatest gift he could give, the woman Alaric loves.  Sort of echos how Kelson's grandfather gave Kenneth Morgan the great gift of a woman who came to love him, and he her.
Judy Ward
You can buy a pretty good dog with money but you can't buy the wag of its tail.

Offline Kareina

  • Landed Commoner
  • ****
  • Posts: 36
  • Karma: 0
    • Kareina's Dreamwidth page
  • Favorite Book: How would one choose only one favourite book, isn't it enough that this is my favourite set of book series?
Re: Morgan/Richenda wedding and their trust Issue
« Reply #14 on: July 08, 2019, 08:33:43 PM »

Hah! Well then, in that case this is a must read for you!
http://www.rhemuthcastle.com/index.php?topic=469.0

An excellent fan fic by Alkari. A Gryphon by the Tail.  An absolute must read, and one of my favorites.

I am not certain if I should thank you or complain. I read this comment just after 23:00 my time, and now it is 03:30, and I have finally finished the story, which I enjoyed very much. I had been expecting a short story, not 29 chapters!  But despite being very tired, I just couldn't put it down. Especially as tomorrow will be a busy day, and the next day we are heading to a 4-day SCA camping event, so there wouldn't have been another chance to finish it soon enough to suit me...
--Kareina

 


* Discord

* User Info

 
 
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.

* Recent Posts

Re: Two Kingdoms: Departures by DerynifanK
[Today at 11:54:34 AM]


Re: Happy Birthday Derynifank! by revanne
[August 09, 2020, 09:35:57 PM]


KK Chat -- 9 August 2020 by DesertRose
[August 09, 2020, 07:41:14 PM]


Re: Two Kingdoms: Departures by Jerusha
[August 09, 2020, 12:06:55 PM]


Re: Two Kingdoms: Departures by Laurna
[August 09, 2020, 10:36:47 AM]


Re: Happy Birthday Derynifank! by HoundMistress
[August 09, 2020, 08:30:01 AM]


Re: Happy Birthday Derynifank! by Shiral
[August 08, 2020, 10:25:09 PM]


Re: Happy Birthday Derynifank! by DerynifanK
[August 08, 2020, 02:18:54 PM]


Re: Happy Birthday Derynifank! by DoctorM
[August 08, 2020, 11:42:03 AM]


Two Kingdoms: Departures by DoctorM
[August 08, 2020, 11:37:29 AM]


Re: Happy Birthday Derynifank! by Bynw
[August 08, 2020, 10:07:50 AM]


Re: Happy Birthday Derynifank! by DesertRose
[August 08, 2020, 09:22:29 AM]


Re: Happy Birthday Derynifank! by Jerusha
[August 08, 2020, 09:19:17 AM]


Re: Happy Birthday Derynifank! by DoctorM
[August 08, 2020, 09:00:10 AM]


Re: Happy Birthday Derynifank! by DerynifanK
[August 08, 2020, 08:42:40 AM]

* Who's Online

  • Dot Guests: 9
  • Dot Hidden: 0
  • Dot Users: 0

There aren't any users online.

* Discord

* Top Poster

HoundMistress HoundMistress
1 Posts
DesertRose DesertRose
1 Posts
Jerusha Jerusha
1 Posts
Laurna Laurna
1 Posts
revanne revanne
1 Posts

* Most Karma

Evie Evie
Karma: 30
Jerusha Jerusha
Karma: 27
DesertRose DesertRose
Karma: 26
Laurna Laurna
Karma: 20
revanne revanne
Karma: 17

* Online Time

DesertRose DesertRose
127d 4h 36m
Evie Evie
123d 9h 44m
TheDeryni TheDeryni
116d 1h 15m
Bynw Bynw
82d 23h 11m
AnnieUK AnnieUK
53d 23h 8m

* Forum Staff

Bynw admin Bynw
Administrator
DesertRose admin DesertRose
Administrator
bennu admin bennu
Administrator
Evie admin Evie
Administrator

* Board Stats

  • stats Total Members: 322
  • stats Total Posts: 23146
  • stats Total Topics: 2275
  • stats Total Categories: 14
  • stats Total Boards: 147
  • stats Most Online: 930

* Calendar

August 2020
Sun Mon Tue Wed Thu Fri Sat
1
2 3 4 5 6 7 8
9 [10] 11 12 13 14 15
16 17 18 19 20 21 22
23 24 25 26 27 28 29
30 31

SimplePortal 2.3.7 © 2008-2020, SimplePortal