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Bishop's Heir

Started by Obiwan3, September 09, 2007, 09:17:04 AM

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Obiwan3

Since I found this site, I started re-reading the series (in the suggested order). I seem to be picking up new parts or I suppose nuances in the stories. I had forgotten how much of a S.O.B. Loris was. I'm happily looking forward to the rest of this book, and series, as Dhugal comes into his own.

Kansas Bear

Yeah, too bad Kelson didn't have him dragged back to Rhemuth for trial... :'(

Obiwan3

Well, I can't fault Kelson for administering the King's Justice where & when he does. If ever a character needed to be removed...

AnnieUK

Just finished my reread of this one, and have to say my fave bit is where Alaric is convincing a terrified Dhugal that it is the uses of power, not the power per se, that is good or evil.  AM at his most persuasive there.

Close second, though, is Duncan giving Dhugal the shiral crystal.  "I have her son" - ah shucks!

Shiral

I like both those scenes too. In fact, Bishop's Heir is one of my favorite Deryni books.  :D

Melissa
You can have a sound mind in a healthy body--Or you can be a nanonovelist!

derynifanatic64

Since Loris was the one who tortured Duncan, it would have been nice for Duncan to execute Loris and Gorony.  There's payback for you.
We will never forget the events of 9-11!!  USA!! USA!!

Braniana

Maybe it would be poetic justice, but I just don't see our favorite bishop being that vengeful.  Better that Kelson did it and preserved at least the appearance of proper legal procedure.  Yes, I know Kelson wanted Loris dead very badly, but the proper procedural path was followed: Loris commits crimes, judged by church, handed over for secular justice (since I guess the church doesn't do capital punishment).  Loris's crimes were against Duncan as well as Kelson, but king trumps bishop/duke, so ultimate right of punishment was Kelson's.

morgan

Well, if Kelson killed Loris in the 1st trilogy, we maybe wouldn't have this one  ;D
I hate Loris too, but I think he's a very well-made characters: I almost can see his hate for Deryni

BalanceTheEnergies

#8
As for Kelson executing Loris earlier (say, directly after the Interdict Schism), I don't think that would have been politically feasible. Loris' fanatical anti-Deryni beliefs were too widely held--if in lesser degrees--and the split in the Church hierarchy had to be patched up rather quickly so Kelson and the clergy could present a united front against Wencit. Executing Loris at that time might have made Kelson come off as a tyrant himself (Think public opinion doesn't matter? What of Jennan Vale?).

Of course, once Loris had sided with Caitrin, deposed and executed Henry Istelyn (especially in that manner, and after depriving him of the powers of his priesthood), then tortured and tried to kill Duncan, his death sentence was far more justifiable--it simply needed Cardiel and Duncan to agree to the handover (notice that didn't take long). I don't mind that it was done in Meara, either; the books tell us Mearan pretensions have been a problem for well over a century, so the hangings could serve to reinforce Kelson's authority--didn't the Mearans hang a Haldane viceroy in that same hall years earlier?

Braniana

Yes, I think it was Iolo Melandry.

I guess I just can't see Duncan taking justice into his own hands like that (killing Loris/Gorony).  Kelson, on the other hand, had proven that he was, to use Vivienne's word, "ruthless".  No one could argue that he had already shown mercy to Loris once.  Loris' response to that gesture was also quite apparent.  His torture and execution of Henry Istelyn, and active military opposition to Kelson would have done a lot to alienate those who might otherwise have been inclined to think well of him.

BalanceTheEnergies

Quite so. Notice too that Kelson didn't make his grandfather's mistake and usurp ecclesiastical prerogatives in his quest for justice, even if he didn't wait for the entire convocation to assemble and sit in judgment.

Evie

One thing I noticed is that the torture scenes in the audiobook version come across as far more intense for me than they did when I read the books in print, even though it's exactly the same text.  I think it's because when I read those scenes in print, my mind has a tendency to skim more quickly through the bits that are too intense for my mind to dwell on too closely, but there's not that same option with an audiobook.  Instead, the narration continues on in the same slow...steady...pace...that... seems...to...  lovingly... linger... on...each...detail....  

If I thought I wanted to see Loris dead after the first time I read about Duncan's torture, I was about ready to jump through the car speakers and do the deed myself after hearing that bit in the audio version!  Geez Louise!  *skin crawling*

Makes me glad I only have High Deryni in print.  I think the battlefield scenes (Wencit's treatment of the men of Cassan and Kierney) would be even creepier in audio.
"In necessariis unitas, in non-necessariis libertas, in utrisque caritas."

--WARNING!!!--
I have a vocabulary in excess of 75,000 words, and I'm not afraid to use it!

derynifanatic64

I wonder how the audiobook dealt with Loris' dream/nightmare of Saint Camber after he was captured while wearing Duncan's ring.
We will never forget the events of 9-11!!  USA!! USA!!

Evie

It's a straight narration rather than a dramatic performance, so the narrator just reads it as-is, although with different voices for each character.  What makes some scenes more powerful, at least for me, is that you can't just skim through the horrible bits quickly like you can when reading text, so if it's a torture scene, you feel like the narrator is lingering lovingly over all the gory parts, when really he's reading no slower than usual...but no faster either.
"In necessariis unitas, in non-necessariis libertas, in utrisque caritas."

--WARNING!!!--
I have a vocabulary in excess of 75,000 words, and I'm not afraid to use it!