Deryni Healing and Chronic Conditions

[vajewa]

I did a quick look on the net(nothing comprehensive or in depth) and it seems that with infants it's more of realigning the achilles tendon and then stretching the muscles/tendons/ligaments of the foot. 

I wonder if a newborn's bones could be reshaped if necessary.  I don't know about feet but the bones in the head are more cartilaginous than bone, to help with birth I know.  Since there is such rapid growth in the first 3+/- years of life I wonder if bone might be influenced/reshaped at that age?  Have to ask KK for her input if I can get here when she's here some time.

[Elkhound]

KK was premed undergrad, wasn't she?

[vajewa]

KK was premed undergrad, wasn't she?

I seem to remember reading somewhere that she did soe pre-med work.

[Elkhound]

I checked; she did Chemistry for her BS and had a year of medical school.

[Elkhound]

Could a Healer deal with Lupus, or Lou Gherig's Disease, or MS?

[vajewa]

Since Lupus is an auto-immune disease I think that a healer might be able to deal effectively with it.  As has been discussed previously, MS and ALS being genetic probably only could have symptoms lessened and but not healed.  Just my $0.02.

Valentius

[the Bee]

I was not suggesting that Tavis' hand could have been "re-generated".  I agree with Elkhound that IF the hand could have been found it might have been reattached.

Didn't Javan hold on to Tavis' hand, hoping it could be reattached?  IIRC they couldn't find a Healer in time, and then someone cauterized the stump.

Javan put the hand inside his tunic to keep it warm, thinking that would preserve its life force; if he'd known to put it on ice, maybe it could still have been reattached once they found a Healer.

[Elkhound]

if he'd known to put it on ice, maybe it could still have been reattached once they found a Healer.

And where would he have gotten ice?  Refrigeration technology was a long way off.

[the Bee]

if he'd known to put it on ice, maybe it could still have been reattached once they found a Healer.

And where would he have gotten ice?  Refrigeration technology was a long way off.

I've wondered about that too.  Maybe he could have found a cold spring or a well.  But Javan didn't know he needed to keep the hand cold. 

[Elkhound]

I remember when we were in Ireland in a July the 1970s, my father asked for ice in his drink.  The waitress said, "And where would I be gettin' ice this time of the year."  Hence, even in advanced countries (although I know some English folk who would say that Ireland doesn't count  ), ice is not universally available.

But even if it had been, Javan--in common with most people then--wouldn't have known the importance of keeping the hand cold.

[JulianneTK]

Would chronic conditions like arthritis and diabetes even exist, as we know them, after diagnosis?  <snip>  Completely healing genetic conditions probably was not possible but the effects probably were greatly reduced.  Wish there was a healer that could decrease my shoulder pain 

Me, too!

[JulianneTK]

I suppose Javan's clubfoot could be considered a chronic condition, but Tavis couldn't Heal it.

Correct, but he did manage Javan's pain and discomfort to a degree.  Could Tavis have reduced the clubbing and improved Javan's function were he better trained?  Bells are going off in the back of my mind that Tavis was not as well qualified as he could have been.  Seem to recall Queron questioning Tavis' healing credentials at one point. 

We also need to remember that the Deryni Suppression is occuring at that point in time.  How would the Regents have twisted Javan's healing for their own purpose if he were healed?  Who knows what healing could have been done by a  healer as skilled as Queron had he been given access to Javan as an infant and toddler?  Perhaps the clubbing of his foot could have been reduced to such a degree as to have been made inconsequential.   I think KK might have had a more difficult time with the Suppression if Javan had been as able as        we all(?) (I) would have liked.

Humbly,
Valentius
 

Ooooh, that sounds like the seeds of a fan fiction. What an interesting concept.  We know that Healers could heal almost anything, provided they got to it in time. Otoh, Cinhil was so busy seeing Javan's clubfoot as "punishment" for his "sin" that he wouldn't have let anybody mess with it. Remember the medieval mindset.

[JulianneTK]

I don't think a Healer's gifts extend to being able to grow new body parts.  Javan came in to the world the way he did, and Tavis couldn't change that.  Nor could Tavis regrow his own hand after it was cut off; he could only heal the wound and control his own physical trauma and bleeding. (Which is a pretty big thing, as blood loss alone could have been life-threatening.) What Tavis could do for Javan was make him as healthy as it was possible for him to be, and to ease his pain when Javan was pushed too hard by his tutors.

Melissa

No, wait, Melissa. I think if Rhys or another highly-qualified Healer had gotten there swiftly enough, they could have saved Tavis' hand. Javan certainly thought so. Why else would he have wrapped it up in his shirt sleeve and tried to keep it warm for a Healer?  There's definitely more than a suggestion that it could have been reattached.

Not regrow it, no. But reattach it? Looks likely.

[DesertRose]

I suppose Javan's clubfoot could be considered a chronic condition, but Tavis couldn't Heal it.

Correct, but he did manage Javan's pain and discomfort to a degree.  Could Tavis have reduced the clubbing and improved Javan's function were he better trained?  Bells are going off in the back of my mind that Tavis was not as well qualified as he could have been.  Seem to recall Queron questioning Tavis' healing credentials at one point. 

We also need to remember that the Deryni Suppression is occuring at that point in time.  How would the Regents have twisted Javan's healing for their own purpose if he were healed?  Who knows what healing could have been done by a  healer as skilled as Queron had he been given access to Javan as an infant and toddler?  Perhaps the clubbing of his foot could have been reduced to such a degree as to have been made inconsequential.   I think KK might have had a more difficult time with the Suppression if Javan had been as able as        we all(?) (I) would have liked.

Humbly,
Valentius
 

Ooooh, that sounds like the seeds of a fan fiction. What an interesting concept.  We know that Healers could heal almost anything, provided they got to it in time. Otoh, Cinhil was so busy seeing Javan's clubfoot as "punishment" for his "sin" that he wouldn't have let anybody mess with it. Remember the medieval mindset.

Tavis took his Healer training with the Varnarites, who apparently were not quite so thorough as the Gabrilites or even the Michaelines in training Healers.  However, when Alroy and Javan were born, Rhys Thuryn was the Healer to the Haldane royal family.  I should think that if any Healer would have been able to correct Javan's clubfoot, Rhys would have been able to do so, or if he hadn't been able but had known it could be done, he might have called Dom Queron or Dom Emrys.  Dom Queron was pretty obviously a HIGHLY skilled Healer in addition to (as we saw in <i>Harrowing</i>) an accomplished ceremonial adept, and while we never saw Dom Emrys exercise his Deryni power too often, except for his heroic and tragic last act of destroying the St. Neot's Portal, he clearly commanded a great deal of respect from Healers and the highly-trained Deryni of his time.  I believe KK says in <i>Deryni Magic</i> that Dom Emrys was one of the foremost if not THE foremost Deryni adept of his time.  If, between the three of them (the most well-known secular Healer and two of the most renowned ecclesiastical Healers of their time), they couldn't do it, I'm inclined to think that it couldn't be done, or at least the Healers of the time did not know how to do it.

[Shiral]

I don't think a Healer's gifts extend to being able to grow new body parts.  Javan came in to the world the way he did, and Tavis couldn't change that.  Nor could Tavis regrow his own hand after it was cut off; he could only heal the wound and control his own physical trauma and bleeding. (Which is a pretty big thing, as blood loss alone could have been life-threatening.) What Tavis could do for Javan was make him as healthy as it was possible for him to be, and to ease his pain when Javan was pushed too hard by his tutors.

Melissa

No, wait, Melissa. I think if Rhys or another highly-qualified Healer had gotten there swiftly enough, they could have saved Tavis' hand. Javan certainly thought so. Why else would he have wrapped it up in his shirt sleeve and tried to keep it warm for a Healer?  There's definitely more than a suggestion that it could have been reattached.

Not regrow it, no. But reattach it? Looks likely.

Certainly an uninjured Healer on the site could have  reattached the hand, the wound being so recent.  Clearly Javan was  operating on that theory when he saved the hand.  It was simply Tavis'  misfortune that it took so long to find an available Healer to help him. IN his own injured state,  he couldn't adequately help himself.


Melissa