Stories we'd like to see

[lenni]

i would love to read the story where Duncan or Morgan (both descendants of Rhys) re-discover the blocking talent and use it on Arilan or one of the other snooty CC members.

I would love to find out exactly the way that Duncan and Morgan are related to Rhys and Evaine.  *All* the ways that they are related!

[derynifanatic64]

Camber does seem to appear to Duncan and Morgan quite a bit, especially when they are using their healing abilities.  Those extra pair of hands that always seems to help them when they heal people are either Camber's or Rhys'--who knows?

[tenworld]

I always thought it was Camber's hands - even tho he did not have healing power, he could add Deryni energy to a a healer's work.
There is no indication that Rhys is still around as Camber is (in his suspended state), unless you believe it is Rhys as a saint.

Morgan and Duncan are probably descended from Rhys by more than one path, based on all the intermarrying.  And Kelson is also a descendant too.  There was a web page tracing all these but I have lost that link, and I dont think it was up to date with the last book.

[Elkhound]

Morgan and Duncan are probably descended from Rhys by more than one path, based on all the intermarrying.  And Kelson is also a descendant too.  There was a web page tracing all these but I have lost that link, and I dont think it was up to date with the last book.

Given how much the aristocracy are given to marrying within a small circle of families, they're probably related more than one way. 

Living in West Virginia I know all about that; one thing that Royalty and Rednecks have in common.

[lenni]

There was a web page tracing all these but I have lost that link, and I dont think it was up to date with the last book.

I think that you are talking about Rebecca's Web site - http://www.mindspring.com/~rebldavis/

It only has information pre-King Kelson's Bride, but includes the first Codex.

Kathleen

[tenworld]

thanks

If I read the charts right, Morgan and Duncan are descended from Rhysel, but the Tieg link ends with his marriage.  So the healing function presumably came from him but isnt shown here.

[Evie]

Maybe the Healer's gift is passed down in some more complicated way, though.  What if you have to inherit not just one, but two different traits in order to be a Healer?  One of those traits, in order for the Healing gift to be expressed, would have to be the regular Deryni trait, but the other one would interact with it to add the gift of healing to the mix.  I can even imagine a human carrying the healing trait all unknowing, but managing to pass it down the line to descendants who might discover it if they were also descended from Deryni.  (For instance, there might be a human father who unknowingly carries the trait required to become a Healer, who marries a Deryni woman and sires a child who later discovers he has the Healing gift as well as ordinary Deryni powers.)  And if it's a recessive trait, then it might be passed on and expressed even more infrequently.

[Elkhound]

That would explain someone like Warin deGrey.

[Evie]

Yes, it could.  Although, since Warin isn't Deryni, what would be activating his healing gifts in that case?

OK, here's a thought: 

human + rare Healer trait inherited from one parent = carrier of healing potential

human + rare Healer trait inherited from both parents (slim chance of it happening, but not impossible) = human with healing gifts (i.e. Warin and any others like him)

Deryni + healer trait (regardless of whether it's inherited on one or both sides of the family) = Deryni healer

Maybe the Deryni powers just augment the healing gift and allow it to be expressed more easily, but if you're that extremely rare human whose parents are both carriers, you can access the gift even without Deryni powers.  Warin is also described as having high charisma, which is also very characteristic of Deryni, but of course not limited to Deryni.

Then again, Warin could actually have a divine gift, and just totally misunderstood his calling because of his anti-Deryni hang-ups.  One thing I like about the books is that it leaves the matter open-ended so that individual readers are free to puzzle it out as they wish.   

[BalanceTheEnergies]

That would explain someone like Warin deGrey.

I've often thought there's another explanation for Warin de Grey. Recall the baptizer cult they came up with to cover turning off Deryni powers? After Rhys did it accidentally while treating Gregory's messy telekinetic head injury, they did a bit of research: finding it made Deryni react to merasha as if they were ordinary humans, making the powers undetectable to reading and finding only one other Healer (Tavis) who could do it. They set up the cult with a front man (the boy Cathan rescued all grown up), and worked for a year to a year and a half "curing" people of the "evil" Deryni taint. At a rough guess, say 20 a day, six days a week makes 9300+ people they processed. Therefore, it seems quite likely there are many people in Gwynedd who have Deryni forebears and don't know it.

Suppose what Rhys and Tavis were actually doing was turning off the gene(s) responsible for the abilities. The genes were still present and passed on to offspring. Suppose too that Warin is descended from one or more of the people who had this done. Add to this the close kinship between prayer and the intense concentration that triggers the powers (something Jehana noticed, according to canon). What if Warin is Deryni, and switched on only the Healing trait in himself? This is possible, especially if the two abilities are from different genes. Recall too that he didn't think Deryni could Heal, but that Christ could; it was only the demonstration in Morgan's castle that convinced him of the possibility. I think he could pass notice at the time because Morgan and Duncan didn't have complete training (and Arilan wanted Cardiel to go along instead of himself, to show him Deryni in action); didn't Rhys have to demonstrate to the others what he'd done?

In fact, I'd like to see Warin brought back in that finale I wrote of before. We know he's devout, so having him disappear into some kind of retreat/quest for a few years makes sense, especially since he seemed shaken by the events at Coroth Castle. We have Kelson et.al. interested in Deryni history, and Azim as a new connection to the Knights of the Anvil, with the added impetus of the search for Teymuraz. Canon also has Joram surviving several decades after the Haldane Restoration (d. 948); suppose he left some documents with the Knights of the Anvil (wrote/dictated memoirs) so our heroes can find out what their ancestors had done? And what is in the Camberian Council's archives? Warin might head for the desert himself and turn up at the Anvillers' establishment while he's trying to sort out his issues.

[tenworld]

Warin can't be Deryni because Morgan would have detected something unless Warin was specifically turned "off", which does not make sense; but he could easily be descended from Deryni but not inherit any but the healing gene.  As the last poster suggests he could have triggered it thru intense religious activity.  Or the healing gene could be completely separate from Deryni but turn on naturally during normal Deryni rituals.

[BalanceTheEnergies]

I have to beg to differ on this one, though I loaned out my copies of the Camber trilogy years ago and never got them back, so I cannot give you chapter and verse. What upset Gregory at the time was that he couldn't detect his own shields after Rhys did whatever it was that he did. That was what Rhys and the others subsequently researched, and also what became the point of the cult: to turn off the powers of some Deryni so that they didn't read as Deryni, even to tame Deryni employed by the regents (not to mention losing their Deryni-specific reaction to merasha). If (as the canon depicts it) highly-trained early tenth century mages couldn't detect Deryniness in people who had the proverbial switch flipped (I recall somebody made a remark like, "If I didn't know you were Deryni, I wouldn't have been able to tell," or words to that effect), and if (as we know) twelfth century mages in general (and Morgan and Duncan in particular) had less training (thanks to the persecutions), it shouldn't be surprising that powers could exist yet be undetectable.

I suggest that perhaps what Rhys and Tavis did also affected the germ cells (the gonads and their products), not just those cells in the brain that are involved in producing shields (which, as Conall and Tiercel discussed, are the basis of everything else in the powers). The genes remain, and are transmitted to offspring, but are transmitted turned off (inactive) in some or most cases. This doesn't preclude other people over the intervening centuries having their genes turned on by environmental factors (stress) or behaviours (like intense prayer). Since most Deryni need to be trained to use their powers, it could also be true that some people could have their genes turned on and still not know they were Deryni.

FWIW I posited this notion partly to bring Warin back into the story, and partly to show human and Deryni alike just how much was lost—to drive home the inhumanity of the situation which they have lived with for so long (and to which many have no doubt become inured). It must also be said that despite the horror of the situation after the Restoration, it doesn't diminish the practical value of being able to find and use that trigger, especially in the event other Deryni suffer head injuries and manifest uncontrolled telekinesis (which surely will happen at some point).

[tenworld]

i was not saying Morgan should detect if he was a turned-off Deryni, but that if he was weakly deryni but didnt exhibit any powers he should still be detectable.  I am assuming the gene is not inherited in a turned off mode (like the old studies where people with missing limbs still produce fully limbed children).  If Warin is Deryni and turned off then someone is around actively doing that to continuing the 200 year plan, but who?  Your theory that genes get inherited in off mode is interesting, while not consistent with biological science.  But then this is an alternate world isnt it?

If we ever get that last novel where the Truth is found then maybe that will be part of the story. And Warin will be shown to be Morgan's cousin:)

[BalanceTheEnergies]

I think perhaps it's more a case of non-coding DNA (colloquially known as "junk DNA"). Bearing in mind that this is speculative fiction, consider that it could be what is affected by flipping the switch. Though research about non-coding DNA has been mostly about disease conditions, that isn't the whole story:

Snyder's team didn't study what effect these differences have, but he notes that points on the genome where transcription factor binding differed between people tended to be near genes implicated in schizophrenia, diabetes, rheumatoid arthritis and other ailments. He suggests, therefore, that these differences in transcription factor binding may affect disease risk.
...
He also suspects that differences in many traits – not just in disease risk – may be due to changes in non-coding DNA, rather than mutations within genes. He points out that the latter, which change the shape and function of a protein, are much more likely to have catastrophic effects than variations in non-coding DNA, which may have more subtle effects and so be more likely to be passed on to further generations.

As I read it, this means that mere presence of one or more genes isn't the whole story; rather, variations in the non-coding DNA have some degree of control over the expression of the gene(s) and therefore, the development of a given trait in the organism.

[BalanceTheEnergies]

Another interesting possibility is mentioned in this article on Slate: epigenetics.

In one Swedish village, which also has records of crop harvests that go back hundreds of years, the paternal grandsons of men who experienced famine were less likely to have cardiovascular disease than their peers whose paternal grandfathers did not experience famine. But, wait, conventional wisdom says only genes are supposed to be passed on to the next generation. Most epigenetic attachments are stripped away from genes in the creation of sperm and egg cells. Yet it seems that a record of some epigenetic attachments is passed on and then recreated in the genome of the embryo, too. That means that an event in your parent's life that occurred before you were conceived could affect how your genes work today. In other words, the sins of the fathers may be visited on the deoxyribose nucleic acids of the sons.

If we posit that all Healers can direct the body on a cellular level, and those Healers who can turn off the powers can go to the molecular level and act upon/influence/cause epigenetic attachments, might this not explain how Deryni whose powers were turned off could produce descendants who retained the gene(s) yet did not express the trait? And might not such descendants be able to express those genes (and thus display the Deryni trait or portions of it) if their epigenetic attachments were subsequently changed, either by environment (stressors, chemicals, diet, etc.) or by the actions of a Deryni Healer who is able to reach said molecular level?