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Deryni Rising

Started by Rex_Kelsonus (RIP), July 04, 2007, 10:39:56 PM

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Shiral

Quote from: tenworld on March 24, 2008, 04:22:17 PM
i didnt think it was Alaric because I dont see him as overly religious or scholarly (would he even know the source of that phrase in the Bible?)
but then he always has been impetuous, and he would have been still a teenager.  Its more like Duncan but would Duncan have risked saying it or would he even have been there.

I don't believe Duncan would have been in seminary yet. At any rate, Morgan was the only one of the pair we definitely know to have been present when Jorian was executed.

Alaric would have had quite an exposure to Ecclesiastical Latin from an early age, though, if only by osmosis and attending at least one Latin Mass per week. If you hear the words over and over again all your life, you do end up learning a lot more than you realize. Great reverence for priests was inculcated in every faithful Christian, so I think he might well have known the words Sacerdos in Aeternam.

My own view is that Alaric might have been the only person present who was both inclined and would have dared say those words, and in the story its described as "a boyish voice".  The students who had been Jorian's companions in Seminary, might have WANTED to extend Jorian what comfort they could in the circumstances, but would any of them have dared?  It could have exposed that student to very uncomfortable scrutiny from the Archbishop's clergy who were right there in the yard.  Too much overt sympathy for a Deryni caught breaking canon law  and punished accordingly is not a politic thing for a future priest to show in Gwynedd.  No matter how they feel about it, and how much sympathy they might feel for Jorian on the inside, officially the Church does not permit any softness toward Deryni, and they're not kind to those who they think are too soft on Deryni. They might have felt very sorry for Jorian, but not to the point where they were willing to risk sharing his fate.

Alaric was no seminarian, and was already known for who and what he was. His rank and the King's favor would provide more protection for him than Arilan and his fellow seminarians would have had.

Melissa
You can have a sound mind in a healthy body--Or you can be a nanonovelist!

derynifanatic64

It was one of Brion's chaplains who insisted that he send his "pet Deryni" to Jorian's execution to show Alaric what happens to Deryni who dare to disobey the Statutes of Ramos.  I'm sure Brion sent Alaric with soldiers (or whoever) who were OK with him being Deryni and would have protected him if he was the one who yelled that quote at the execution.
We will never forget the events of 9-11!!  USA!! USA!!

Mak

Quote from: derynifanatic64 on March 24, 2008, 06:32:52 PM
It was one of Brion's chaplains who insisted that he send his "pet Deryni" to Jorian's execution to show Alaric what happens to Deryni who dare to disobey the Statutes of Ramos. 

And that would not have gone down well with Alaric, at any age.  "Here, you little twit, see what happens to those of 'your kind' who dare disobey."  Yeah, Alaric would have been fine with that.  I'm sure he had an escort, but 13 year old boys can be pretty clever at ducking those supposed to watch over them.  We've never seen Jorian's execution from any viewpoint except Denis'.  I can see Alaric getting away from his escort, yelling out from "somewhere" in the crowd where he could not be easily identified, and then letting himslef be "found" again.
-Mak

morgan

Sorry, exactly, in which book I can find the story of the execution?

r2005

Quote from: morgan on March 27, 2008, 12:48:19 PM
Sorry, exactly, in which book I can find the story of the execution?

The execution is in a short story called "The Priesting of Arilan" and that story is found in an anthology called The Deryni Archives. That story is my favorite one in the anthology, but there are some other ones that come to a close second.
No matter how you're heart is grieving if you keep on believing the dream that you wish will come true

Shiral

#35
Quote from: Mak on March 25, 2008, 09:34:16 AM
Quote from: derynifanatic64 on March 24, 2008, 06:32:52 PM
It was one of Brion's chaplains who insisted that he send his "pet Deryni" to Jorian's execution to show Alaric what happens to Deryni who dare to disobey the Statutes of Ramos. 

And that would not have gone down well with Alaric, at any age.  "Here, you little twit, see what happens to those of 'your kind' who dare disobey."  Yeah, Alaric would have been fine with that.  I'm sure he had an escort, but 13 year old boys can be pretty clever at ducking those supposed to watch over them.  We've never seen Jorian's execution from any viewpoint except Denis'.  I can see Alaric getting away from his escort, yelling out from "somewhere" in the crowd where he could not be easily identified, and then letting himslef be "found" again.

I'm sure Alaric did not go willingly to Arx Fidei, with or without an escort.  :) The burning in the village of Hallowdale just after his third birthday was his first encounter with that form of punishment for "Godless Deryni" even if he didn't really see anything very distressing with his own eyes. I'm sure though that incident left its mark  on his emotional growth. I'm not even sure how far Alaric would have dared go from the only people present who were assigned to protect him at the time. I wonder also if Se Trelawney turned up at an opportune moment to help his godson and his official escort out of some danger, then disappeared before Alaric returned to Rhemuth.

Melissa
You can have a sound mind in a healthy body--Or you can be a nanonovelist!

tenworld

melissa, I like your Se theory.

is it possible Katherine introduced Se just to be able to explain a few loose ends? 

he is sort of a one man "secret inner Camberian council", my favorite DERYNI conspiracy theory.

morgan

Quote from: r2005 on March 27, 2008, 02:11:32 PM
The execution is in a short story called "The Priesting of Arilan" and that story is found in an anthology called The Deryni Archives. That story is my favorite one in the anthology, but there are some other ones that come to a close second.

Thanks, I have it, but I've not read yet

JulianneTK

Ummm, MAK, I know you like Bishop Arilan, but did you really just say that Morgan had led a charmed life?

JulianneTK

As far as Arilan's comment about the child/Conalline never being born... If I recall corrrectly, and I WISH I could remember where I read this, but for what it's worth-- somewhere I read that in the Middle Ages, aborting a child wasn't the hotly-debated issue it is today, for there was a widely-held belief that there was no soul in the forming child until the 3rd month of pregnancy. 

I wish I could recall where I read that. I did a lot of reading in church history and feminist commentary of church history back when I was in college, but that concept really stuck in my head.  It was promulgated by the church, so Arilan's comment would have been completely in keeping with that.

I wonder if they thought that way because so many babies were lost in the first three months of pregnancy...

Mak

Quote from: JulianneTK on June 29, 2008, 06:14:53 PM
Ummm, MAK, I know you like Bishop Arilan, but did you really just say that Morgan had led a charmed life?

Uh, who, me???   ;)
-Mak

AlaricMorgan

'The Priesting of Arilan' is one of my favorite stories in the Deryni Archives. :)  As for Morgan and Arilan's relationship, it does provide a good tension and Morgans' devil-may-care attitude has me rooting for him most of the time :)

Shiral

Ahah, Another Alaric fan! =o) I agree that the relationship between Alaric and Arilan, both interesting characters, makes for good tension in the stories. Alaric does not strike me as a man who would willingly allow anyone but the King to give him orders. But there's Arilan always nosing about, acting like Alaric is a child with poor self-control and some need of supervision by Older Wiser Bishops.  After Morgan's decision to live openly as a Deryni from a young age, Arilan, who has always had to be so careful or court an unpleasant death,  must in some way envy and probably disapprove of Morgan's comparative freedom. And worry that one day he'd go too far, and  put Gwyneddan Deryni at greater risk.  So I can see both their points of view.  But I still root for Alaric.  :D

Melissa
You can have a sound mind in a healthy body--Or you can be a nanonovelist!

JulianneTK


JulianneTK

My personal favorite in the Deryni Archives book is "The Knighting of Derry."