Two Kingdoms 49 - Borders

[Evie]

He has 3 years of war under his belt and while things have not always gone as we would have liked, I think he might surprise people? Even Evie, if given the chance.

I'll grant that both 14-year-old and 17-year-old canonical Kelson was extremely mature for a lad his age, especially compared to modern-day teens who grow up a lot more infantilized than their medieval counterparts did. In this AU, three years of leading his army in war would make some difference in terms of battle experience, absolutely. However, none of that changes the fact that human anatomy and the amount of time it takes to reach full brain development has not changed over the centuries, and a lack of life experience plus not yet having reached his full cognitive potential yet (due to the brain continuing to physically change during those late teen years to somewhere in the mid-20s) would still have some impact that I think would be measurable compared to his rival who began this conflict as a fully developed adult. (Not that Charissa lacks any handicaps of her own. She is a woman who aspires to be sovereign in a male-dominated society where that isn't the norm and which is biased against that, so for her to take and retain power would be a constant struggle. But at least it's not one she is trying to take on at age 14 or even 17!)

While medieval people didn't really have a concept of adolescence in the way that we understand it, as a separate life stage from childhood or adulthood, they still recognized that what they considered young adulthood (basically the late teens to mid-20s when the capacity to move from concrete to abstract thinking is becoming more developed, through all the changes that begin with puberty and continue for several years until the body reaches full growth, etc.), was a period when these fledgling adults still often tended to be rash, impulsive, hot-tempered, and sometimes unable to predict long-term consequences of actions in a way that someone with more life experience could more easily foresee. They called the attainment of that more mature, settled stage of adulthood "becoming sad and wise," although the meaning of those words has changed slightly over the years (sad did not mean sorrowful in this sense, but something more like sober or thoughtful). So teens and young-20s "young adults" tended to still be in their training years, whether as apprentices or journeyman, or in the case of royalty, the hope was that they would still be the heir at that age and still in training to take on their full royal responsibilities a little later in life. Marriage among the nobility might happen at this age due to dynastic reasons, but among the common folk it was less likely at least for the young men to marry until they reached the end of this stage of life or at least were much closer to the end of it than the beginning. Why? They had to be fully trained in some trade or skill that would allow them to support a wife and family, and they had to be mature enough mentally as well as physically to take care of them. And that age of being "sad and wise" enough to become head of your own household tended to be around the mid-20s, around the same time as the human body becomes physiologically fully adult. This is not a coincidence at all. (Women did tend to marry a little younger, but in that case that was because they had usually attained enough growth to bear children and to gain whatever education they might have access to by their age of first marriage, and needing to gain full physical maturity first as less of an issue.)

I am not saying that AU Kelson would be incapable of being a mature, thoughtful, and capable King, just that he would be doing his best to be those things while still trying to overcome the handicap of not having yet reached the stage of development that would allow him to be these things to the best of his potential. He has not yet reached his full potential. Hopefully he will live to reach it.

And of course there are many people who reach their full growth and brain development and still act immaturely and rashly, and don't display much common sense. I suspect if the canonical Prince Conall had lived long enough, he would have turned out to be that sort of man, somehow permanently stuck in petulant young adolescence despite being in a fully developed man's body. But at least in that case, it wouldn't be because his neurons are still trying to form the pathways that would allow a higher level of critical thinking.

[Demercia]

I'm really enjoying this too, it's good to see things from a different perspective.  I'd go for option 3 with a bit of 4, though tbh I think it more likely that Kelson's half would degenerate into chaos than Charissa's.

Why do you think chaos more likely for Kelson?

Because he's currently very young and therefore has less life experience and probably more of a tendency to react quickly and prematurely rather than take time to fully think through his decisions before acting (since after all he is still an adolescent whose brain is still forming), and while in the canonical universe some of that inexperience and impulsiveness is tempered by having older and wiser advisors who for the most part work well together despite occasional differences (such as the friction between Alaric and Arilan), in this AU Kelson's supporters appear to have some factions that could end up being a weakness Charissa could exploit. Or even if she doesn't, I think Kelson could find himself in a game of tug-of-war between two or more supporting factions, each trying to convince the King that their (conflicting) advice is the best.

Exactly this Evie.  And, as I think we get possible hints of in the last chapter, Kelson cannot afford to be as ruthless as Charissa.  Though I did only say bits of 4, so probably degenerate into chaos was overstating it.
And of course in AU option 3 isn't necessarily a disaster, Charissa isn't Ariella.

[DerynifanK]

Thanks for that explanation and I do know that maturation comes later in boys. In medieval times how many survived to reach that point? But Kelson has always been described as mature far beyond his years so maybe he can handle it better than rethink. I have to admit I still don't think either side can achieve absolute victory. And there is stil the problem of Wencit and as someone else mentioned, Meara could decide this could be a good time to try to try to separate and be independent. Nothing but more problems.
But Charissa, even though I have grown to appreciate her more in this story, is ruthless. she did murder Brion. She didn't challenge him to a fair fight but killed with poison(meresha) and magic. She also wreaked a lot of destruction on Rhemuth when she left. If this does end end with a division of Gwynedd into two, I don't think I would want to live in her part. Guess we'll have to see what Dr M has in mind. Would hate to Dec Gwynedd dismantled and lost.

[Evie]

Thanks for that explanation and I do know that maturation comes later in boys. In medieval times how many survived to reach that point?

If you lived past early childhood (newborn to five years old), you stood a pretty good chance of living a decently long life span, at least well into your fifties or sixties, though that was also barring having the bad luck of dying in some accident or from one of many diseases that there was no cure for at the time. Also, a woman had a greater chance of dying in her pre-menopausal years than a man of the same age because  of the hazards of going through childbirth, but once past menopause, she stood a greater chance than a man of surviving longer into old age because a man getting into his senior years is more prone to work injuries, plus as everyone moves into their senior years, there is greater susceptibility to illnesses also just as in the newborn-to-five age range. You sometimes read about "average age of death" back then being in the mid-30s or thereabouts, but that was because there was such a high rate of infant and early childhood mortality as well as young women dying of complications in childbirth that it skews the overall average downward. It didn't mean that 35 was "old age" back then (although people who don't understand what an average is have often argued this), just that there were a lot more hazards in the way of getting to that age, much less past it. Also, those who didn't have to do hard manual labor and who had access to decent (for the time) medical care and nutrition tended to live longer. IIRC, for example, Eleanor of Aquitaine and Hildegard von Bingen both made it to their early 80s.

But Charissa, even though I have grown to appreciate her more in this story, is ruthless. she did murder Brion. She didn't challenge him to a fair fight but killed with poison(meresha) and magic.

Very true. Though Kelson could be almost equally ruthless, especially when he let his anger get the best of him and wasn't open to listening to his advisors. *coughTalacaracough*  At least once he calmed down, he was more open to owning his mistakes and resolving to learn from them, but one could hardly claim he's not ruthless on occasion.

[DoctorM]

I've been reading both about the Hundred Years War and the Peloponnesian War, and...once wars start, once the ice starts breaking, you get nothing but problems all around-- new problems no one ever thought of. Major players find themselves drawn into their allies' problems, new issues appear out of nowhere, outsiders try to feather their own nests.

[tmcd]

World War I shakes its head and says, "Pikers".

[drakensis]

I think it's fair to say that Kelson still can't claim to have had worse teenage years than Charissa.

It's hard to dispute her reasons for refusing to marry Wencit when he was looking for a new queen. She'd been through quite enough as a result of the House of Furstan.

[DoctorM]

I think it's fair to say that Kelson still can't claim to have had worse teenage years than Charissa.

It's hard to dispute her reasons for refusing to marry Wencit when he was looking for a new queen. She'd been through quite enough as a result of the House of Furstan.

In my timeline, Charissa points out that ever since her father was killed and she was eleven, people (from Beldour and probably Rhemuth) had been coming to kill her-- or to marry her, which she may see as worse. Her own attitude is in her name-- she refuses to use "Furstan" and insists on "Festil".

[revanne]

I don't remember all the details of Brion's fight with the Marluk, Charissa's father, but I'm sure from her perspective it was not a fair fight.

[DoctorM]

I don't remember all the details of Brion's fight with the Marluk, Charissa's father, but I'm sure from her perspective it was not a fair fight.

I agree. For a girl of eleven, watching her much-loved father die in a duel-arcane or a sword fight would *never* be seen as watching anything fair.

[tmcd]

Swords Against the Marluk v. 2.0 for Windows is chapter 46 of The King's Deryni. It started with Brion starting a cavalry charge on the short end of 2-1 odds against the Tolan forces. Brion shouts "Stella!" "Gwernach!", the Marluk rides over, slashy slashy, let's take a break 'cause we're both pooped, talky talky, Brion starts the procedure for the duel arcane, Thunderdome forms, two men enter, one man leaves. Interestingly, it says that more Gwynneddians were alive than Tolanders, and most living Tolanarians were wounded -- dunno how that happened.

So if Charissa thought it was unfair, she can eat a bag of go tell the Marines.

[drakensis]

The Festillic Pretenders' claims have always been rather shaky.

"You took our kingdom away from us!"

"And what did Festil I do to Ifor Haldane?"

"Our claim is better by Festil being a descendant of Aidan Haldane, Ifor was only descended from Aidan's younger brother Llarik!"

"Wouldn't that make Festil's older brother Lajos a stronger claimant?"

"Cinhil Haldane was a priest who forswore his oaths to become king!"

"Wasn't Imre's father Archbishop of Rhemuth before his brother died, making him Festil III's heir?"

I have some notes at some point for an AU, perhaps another Nothing Was As It Should Be, where Charissa's older sister Clarissa survives and is rather unconvinced by the Festillic cause that Wencit is trying to convince Hogan of, only finally (and grudgingly) persuaded by the arguement that "We'll stop them burning Deryni at the stake."