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Summonings and Portals

Started by whitelaughter, October 15, 2023, 06:29:56 PM

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duck

I've gone back to re-read the section of QfSC where Tiercel is teaching Conall about transfer portals (Chapter 8)

Interestingly, when Tiercel suggests that Conall try and use the portal by himself he says " ... I'll follow right behind, as soon as you've gone. Just don't move physically at the other end, until I get there."  So Tiercel was able to use a portal even with Conall standing on the destination portal, granted he knew he was going to be there.  luckily he doesn't end up with his arm materialising in Conall's chest or similar. (To quote from DNA about the perils of teleportation "I teleported home one night with Ron, Syd and Meg.  Ron stole Meggie's heart. And I got Sydney's leg!")

Or was this a way for the teacher to ensure that the student had successfully transferred?  Can the teacher "scan" the destination portal for their pupil and "pull them back" if they've right and proper buggered up the transfer procedure! 

Later, Tiercel talks about trapped portals and in response to Conall's question about whether you can tell if a portal is trapped he said "Sometimes. Sometimes not. It depends on the skill of the trapper and the trappee ..."  This might suggest that when using a portal, the practitioner has a moment to react to some abnormality on the destination portal and pull out of the operation.  Would they be able to tell that the portal has been filled with rubble (as was the case with the portal in the garderobe in the Harrowing of Gwynedd)?

Salic

Quote from: duck on December 31, 2023, 09:58:43 AMI've gone back to re-read the section of QfSC where Tiercel is teaching Conall about transfer portals (Chapter 8)

Interestingly, when Tiercel suggests that Conall try and use the portal by himself he says " ... I'll follow right behind, as soon as you've gone. Just don't move physically at the other end, until I get there."  So Tiercel was able to use a portal even with Conall standing on the destination portal, granted he knew he was going to be there.

This is an interesting narrative, duck, from QfSC, Chapter 8.  It is Tiercel's instruction of Conall concerning transfer portals before Tiercel is murdered by Conall.

Quoteluckily he doesn't end up with his arm materialising in Conall's chest or similar. (To quote from DNA about the perils of teleportation "I teleported home one night with Ron, Syd and Meg.  Ron stole Meggie's heart. And I got Sydney's leg!")

I am not familiar with this narrative.  It sounds fanciful.  Wouldn't it be easier to think that the mass of a person using a transfer portal would simply push or knock the mass of another person standing on the destination transfer portal away upon arrival?  Why must de- and rematerialization be envisioned in this instance?

QuoteOr was this a way for the teacher to ensure that the student had successfully transferred?  Can the teacher "scan" the destination portal for their pupil and "pull them back" if they've right and proper buggered up the transfer procedure!

I have thought that would be possible concerning these portals. I suspect that the necessary precondition would be that the Deryni is familiar with the initial portal, he or she is going to use, and the destination transfer portal.

QuoteLater, Tiercel talks about trapped portals and in response to Conall's question about whether you can tell if a portal is trapped he said "Sometimes. Sometimes not. It depends on the skill of the trapper and the trappee ..."  This might suggest that when using a portal, the practitioner has a moment to react to some abnormality on the destination portal and pull out of the operation.  Would they be able to tell that the portal has been filled with rubble (as was the case with the portal in the garderobe in the Harrowing of Gwynedd)?


I think that this would be so, but others more familiar with KK's works should weigh in on this.  I haven't read KK's works for years and so I'm relearning a lot.   :D

DoctorM

I've wondered about that-- the idea of a booby-trapped Portal that might open up to a destination at, say, the bottom of a lake, or not open up at all. Or Portals "going bad" because of age or poor construction and sending you to some largely random destination. 

Salic

Quote from: DoctorM on December 31, 2023, 11:26:39 AMI've wondered about that-- the idea of a booby-trapped Portal that might open up to a destination at, say, the bottom of a lake, or not open up at all. Or Portals "going bad" because of age or poor construction and sending you to some largely random destination. 

It's an interesting question, DoctorM.  I suspect that KK left things like this open to the skill of the operator.  I suspect that the uncertainty would add considerable suspense to an ongoing story depending on the story line.

tmcd

I like the suggestion in a previous discussion, of a Transfer Portal on the roof of a cave, with spikes below. If you have fast reflexes, it still doesn't help, because you've already lost contact with the destination portal and started to fall! Hmmm, how to make it usable .... oh, it has to be trapped to make you immobile (and give you time to unlock the trap)!

"Would they be able to tell that the portal has been filled with rubble (as was the case with the portal in the garderobe in the Harrowing of Gwynedd)?" Ooo, what happened then? I am absolutely not going to reread it.

"I teleported home one night with Ron, Syd and Meg.  Ron stole Meggie's heart. And I got Sydney's leg!"

I heard it as "Ron stole Meggie's heart away."

"I am not familiar with this narrative.  It sounds fanciful."

Googling has a hit of "The Teleportation Blues is a song that appears in the Hitchhiker's universe. The words were written by Douglas Adams and the music by Philip Pope."

Laurna

My own ideas of how Portals work, is this.  The position that you are standing in when you transfer off the first portal, is the same position in which you arrive on the portal you are going to. If there is something obstructing you from completely appearing on that 2nd portal, than you can not make the portal jump and you are instantly bounced back to the first portal. No materializing half phased into something else like furniture or other people, no being pushed away or pushing something else away. Tiercel could arrive on the same portal Conall was standing on because he knew that particular space he would arrive at was free of all other objects-next to Conall but not touching Conall. (I am not going to worry about the air molecules, perhaps those get exchanged with your action. or not, I will leave that up to others.) If you know that there is a low ceiling at the portal location you are going to, then duck down to the right height and you can portal safely.  If you don't duck down than you will get bounced back and not make the portal. If you know there is an object like a box on part of the portal you are going to then just stand one the opposite side of where the box would be (knowing your S,E,W,N positions might be really helpful here.

One of the pluses for taking over the mind-controls of the people who you are taking through the portal, is that you can control their movements and keep them from moving in the few heartbeats that it takes to make the Portal jump.  This might be a necessity so that everyone arrives in the same position that they left in. one person accidentally falling into an another person might make the portal jump fail.

I don't think KK actually says this in any story, but it seems to me there are clues that this is how it may be. We do know there are risks to portal jumping. and I suspect this limitation of positioning is a vital one for safe Portaling. That is why it is so important to know the portal and it's location that you are going to, more than just knowing the signature itself.
May your horses have wings and fly!

Bynw

A lot of the physically trapped portals are contained ones. In an air tight chamber for instance. You can't Transfer into the air and fall. Because the Portal signature is on the rock below. That is where you will be. I am betting you could have a chamber that is flooded and thus trapped that way too.

But anything else will cause you to bounce back to your destination.

Other traps are magical in nature. Those might be detectable but sometimes not.

If you want spikes to kill the people using the portal. It would be a separate trap triggered by their movement around the portal square. Do able. Probably not detectable and wont bounce them back. Maybe set it so they can't jump back out of that portal. Hmmmmm. Ideas are turning ...

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Nezz

Quote from: Bynw on January 04, 2024, 03:33:31 PMHmmmmm. Ideas are turning ...

Oh, way to go, guys; now you've got him thinking again!
Now is life, and life is always better.
-Wolfself

DerynifanK

Ideas are churning but in what direction? Could be interesting, fun, or really scary.
"Thanks be to God there are still, as there always have been and always will be, more good men than evil in this world, and their cause will prevail." Brother Cadfael's Penance

Nezz

Quote from: DerynifanK on January 04, 2024, 04:43:22 PMIdeas are churning but in what direction? Could be interesting, fun, or really scary.
As if we have to ask... especially considering the talk of traps! ;)
Now is life, and life is always better.
-Wolfself

Salic

I'm wondering if the ritual used to establish transfer portals was also meant to lessen the possibility of traps through the formalization of their construction. 

The sociology of the Deryni working their magic admits to a number of possibilities that would need to be worked through concerning some of their traditions and practices.

ReikiDeryni

The traps would have been a later add on after portal construction, at least probably most times.