KK Chat -- 13 August 2023

[Bynw]

[18:14] * web19 (49ab39c5@CCN-FD80E4E6.hsd1.va.comcast.net) has joined #deryni_destinations
[18:14] <CambersGhost> [discord] <laurnarose> If you ever feel like sitting down and reading for a month or more, there are tons of fantastic Fan fic on the site.
[18:14] <CambersGhost> [discord] <stnezz> Is that KK?
[18:15] <CambersGhost> [discord] <laurnarose> All of it is worth reading
[18:15] <~bynw> change your nick /nick KK
[18:15] <CambersGhost> [discord] <DFK> GotP was a role playing game that turned into an amazing adventure story, at least I think so
[18:15] <web19> nick/KK
[18:15] <CambersGhost> [discord] <laurnarose> Hello KK
[18:15] <~bynw> slash then nick then space then KK
[18:15] * web19 is now known as KK
[18:15] <CambersGhost> [discord] <DFK> Hi KK
[18:15] <~bynw> hi KK
[18:15] <The_Bee> KK! Welcom!
[18:15] <CambersGhost> [discord] <stnezz> Hullo KK
[18:15] <CambersGhost> [discord] <Evie the Verbose> / nick [name]  Without the space between the slash and the word nick
[18:15] <KK> At last!
[18:16] <CambersGhost> [discord] <laurnarose> YAH
[18:16] <CambersGhost> [discord] <shiral_> Hi KK
[18:16] <CambersGhost> [discord] <stnezz> Yay!
[18:16] <CambersGhost> [discord] <Evie the Verbose> Hello!
[18:16] <CambersGhost> [discord] <DFK> Yay!
[18:16] <CambersGhost> [discord] <laurnarose> Hope you had a good week
[18:16] <The_Bee> Have you been doing your exercises like a good girl. KK?
[18:17] <~bynw> Just an FYI we might have to postpone the September Zoom chat. I'm going to be out of town labor day weekend and may not be home in time to run it.
[18:17] <KK> I couldn't find the link to chat, and m bookmarks seem to have proliferated in the transfer of files from the old computer to the new one.  Grrrr.
[18:17] <The_Bee> Well, you're here now.
[18:18] <CambersGhost> [discord] <laurnarose> Bynw needs to get you onto Discord.
[18:18] <CambersGhost> [discord] <Evie the Verbose> Someday we'll get you on Discord and all you'll have to do is save that tab on your browser.
[18:18] <CambersGhost> [discord] <DFK> Postponing zoom in sept might be a good idea. So many people busy over labor day weekend
[18:18] <KK> I've been doing my exercises at physio, but I need to start doing more.  I have my pre admission testing tomorrow, so that should underline for me that I need to step up the exercises.
[18:18] <CambersGhost> [discord] <Jerusha2> Hi Everyone!
[18:19] <CambersGhost> [discord] <Evie the Verbose> Hi!
[18:19] <CambersGhost> [discord] <stnezz> Hi Jerusha!
[18:19] <CambersGhost> [discord] <laurnarose> Good for you KK.   Hello Jerusha
[18:19] <The_Bee> Hi Jerusha
[18:19] <CambersGhost> [discord] <DFK> Hi Jerusha
[18:20] <CambersGhost> [discord] <shiral_> Hi Jerusha
[18:20] <CambersGhost> [discord] <DFK> @KK1 when is the surgery scheduled
[18:21] <CambersGhost> [discord] <DFK> Have to make a quick phone call, brb
[18:21] <~bynw> for those of you either on facebook who haven't seen my post. or for those that aren't on facebook. my 86 year old aunt passed away suddenly on Tuesday. Tomorrow is her funeral so I've got that coming up.
[18:21] <CambersGhost> [discord] <Jerusha2> My sympathies, Bynw
[18:21] <CambersGhost> [discord] <Evie the Verbose> So sorry, bynw!
[18:21] <KK> Don't know when in September I'll be up for venturing to my desktop computer. Actually, I have something on Saturday the 2nd, so should be able to chat on Sunday night.  It's the 10 that might be problematic.
[18:22] <The_Bee> I hope she had a very good life, and you have many good memories of her.
[18:22] <CambersGhost> [discord] <shiral_> We could just do regular chat, and worry about Zoom chat again in October
[18:22] <CambersGhost> [discord] <Jerusha2> True
[18:23] <CambersGhost> [discord] <shiral_> Sorry to hear about your aunt, Bynw
[18:23] <The_Bee> time enough to decise later.
[18:23] <The_Bee> decide
[18:23] <KK> Surgery is Monday the 11th. And Bynw, sorry to hear about your aunt. May her memory be for a blessing
[18:23] <~bynw> thanks all
[18:23] <CambersGhost> [discord] <DFK> I did see your post and am so sorry for your loss.
[18:24] <KK> Were you close?
[18:25] <~bynw> yes. she has lived in the same town her entire life. the same town my dad lived in (they were siblings) i would always go see her when i visited my dad. and after my dad passed, i then always visited my aunt
[18:26] <CambersGhost> [discord] <laurnarose> My condolences to your family, Bynw.
[18:26] <The_Bee> cherish the good memories.
[18:26] <KK> Well, at least you were blessed to get to visit her often.
[18:27] <KK> Where did she and your father live?
[18:27] <~bynw> her is a pic of my dad and aunt a year before my dad died  https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/mmz2ib991a7b0hxw93dx1/2016-06-20-19.17.55.jpg?rlkey=aiprlikiqk81kvwjgef4frvi6&dl=0
[18:27] <~bynw> fort dodge iowa
[18:27] <CambersGhost> [discord] <azdesertrose> I'm sorry for your loss, bynw. Just popping in for a moment to say hi. My post-cataract surgery eyes are having a NOPE day regarding screens so extensive chatting isn't on the agenda today.
[18:27] <CambersGhost> [discord] <DFK> Great picture
[18:28] <CambersGhost> [discord] <Evie the Verbose> I wonder if blue light glasses would help, DR? Zenni has some that are really good and pretty inexpensive.
[18:28] <CambersGhost> [discord] <DFK> Hope your eyes are better soon DR
[18:28] <KK> Yes, pretty lady.
[18:29] <CambersGhost> [discord] <laurnarose> DR I hope those eyes of yours  heal fast.
[18:29] <CambersGhost> [discord] <Evie the Verbose> What was the age difference between them? My dad has one sister who is 3 years older than him, and I grew up close to her also.
[18:29] <CambersGhost> [discord] <shiral_> Hope the eyes feel better soon, DR
[18:29] <KK> Is it the glare bothering you, Cambersghost, or do you need readers?
[18:30] <CambersGhost> [discord] <laurnarose> I am hoping that Camber's Ghost will help DR and not hinder her.
[18:30] <The_Bee> Working eyes are very useful things to have.
[18:30] <KK> Absolutely, Bee.
[18:30] <CambersGhost> [discord] <Evie the Verbose> Camber's Ghost is the bot that is relaying messages from IRC to Discord.
[18:30] <CambersGhost> [discord] <Jerusha2> Yes, absolutely
[18:31] <CambersGhost> [discord] <DFK> It's really frustrating now to be able to read
[18:31] <CambersGhost> [discord] <laurnarose> I was not talking about the bot but  rather the real man and the sureal ghost
[18:31] <CambersGhost> [discord] <Evie the Verbose> Yes. I was referring to KK's question. I doubt the fictional Camber's Ghost suffers much from eyestrain. 😉
[18:32] <CambersGhost> [discord] <Evie the Verbose> Or the bot, for that matter. 😄
[18:32] <CambersGhost> [discord] <laurnarose> lol
[18:32] <~bynw> my dad was 3 years older
[18:33] <CambersGhost> [discord] <laurnarose> WHy is it that all novel/fictional characters have either perfect eyesite or blindness. but never just nearsited ness
[18:33] <CambersGhost> [discord] <Jerusha2> Wasn't there a nearsighted character in the King's Deryni?
[18:33] <CambersGhost> [discord] <Evie the Verbose> Because if all fictional characters had eyesight like mine, then you'd be reading 400 pages of "Where did I leave my glasses?" and "I need to clean these contact lenses."
[18:34] <The_Bee> or astigmatism
[18:34] <CambersGhost> [discord] <laurnarose> LOL
[18:34] <CambersGhost> [discord] <Jerusha2> Tee hee
[18:34] <CambersGhost> [discord] <DFK> One of Alaric's friends in TKD had near sightednesss. Great tactician but no use in the field
[18:34] <KK> Good question. It's a handicap like many others, but you're right, it's rarely mentioned.   
[18:35] <CambersGhost> [discord] <DFK> One of his close friends as a boy, from Corey's
[18:35] <CambersGhost> [discord] <Jerusha2> It's possible people didn't admit to it
[18:35] <CambersGhost> [discord] <DFK> Corwyn, ac strikes again
[18:35] <CambersGhost> [discord] <Evie the Verbose> Without corrective lenses, I have to hold text about 8 inches from my face to read it. And that's only because I've grown more farsighted as I get older. I used to have to hold it about 6 inches away.
[18:35] <The_Bee> When were eyeglasses invented?
[18:36] <CambersGhost> [discord] <laurnarose> If I lived in the middle ages, I would only be able to tell who walked in the room by the sound of their voice.  Because I can not see facial features with out my glasses on
[18:36] <CambersGhost> [discord] <Evie the Verbose> Middle Ages sometime, Bee.
[18:36] <CambersGhost> [discord] <Jerusha2> Quite a while back, I think
[18:36] <CambersGhost> [discord] <Evie the Verbose> The earliest glasses tended to be hinged in the middle and pinched onto the bridge of the nose.
[18:36] <CambersGhost> [discord] <Jerusha2> "I can see you, bit I can't breathe"
[18:36] <CambersGhost> [discord] <laurnarose> I thought Franklin developed pincnose glasses
[18:37] <CambersGhost> [discord] <Evie the Verbose> https://i.insider.com/5616d249dd0895571f8b4688?width=400&format=jpeg&auto=webp
[18:37] <The_Bee> Before cataract surgery, I couldn't even see the big E on the top of the eye chart.
[18:37] <CambersGhost> [discord] <Evie the Verbose> No, they've been around for centuries.
[18:37] <KK> If a vision problem affects one's function, especially for distance vision in a fighter or scout or the like, it would be pretty hard to ignore.
[18:38] <CambersGhost> [discord] <DFK> You might be as likely to attack friend as foe on the battlefield
[18:38] <KK> Too true.
[18:39] <CambersGhost> [discord] <DFK> Would really hate to kill the wrong person
[18:39] <CambersGhost> [discord] <Evie the Verbose> DH is actually doing some research into how they made lenses in the medieval period, because he does coin making, and magnification is really helpful when it comes to engraving the small details onto the dies, so he is trying to figure out how they achieved the lens grinding for that task.
[18:39] <CambersGhost> [discord] <TM> I recall reading that too much reading while really young is correlated with nearsightedness, so there may have been less back then. But I don't have a source for the assertion and it might be one of those "just so" urban legends that circulate.
[18:39] <CambersGhost> [discord] <laurnarose> True.  but perhaps that is why Deryni abilies might help cover the disability.  perhaps not has much as Barrett's  but to a minor ability like idenitying people walking in the room.
[18:40] <KK> I think that Deryni powers might well compensate for poor vision.
[18:40] <CambersGhost> [discord] <Evie the Verbose> @TM I think that has been debunked, or at least partially so. There is also some sort of genetic component to myopia, I think. Though I was an avid reader since age 3, and didn't always pick the best light conditions, so I'm sure that didn't help mine.
[18:41] <CambersGhost> [discord] <TM> OMG, I just realized. If Barrett had been hearing-impaired, the spell for him to augment his hearing would have been Barrett's private ears.
[18:42] <CambersGhost> [discord] <Evie the Verbose> I had a blind friend in college who could identify friends by the "color" of their voice. She said I had a dusty rose voice.  (She had some limited vision until 2nd grade, so she had learned her colors and the regular alphabet by then, which threw me for a loop one time when I handed her a book with raised letters on the cover once, and she read the title to me with her fingers!)
[18:42] <CambersGhost> [discord] <TM> (went off thinking of other impairments) OMG, I just realized. If Barrett had been hearing-impaired, the spell for him to augment his hearing would have been Barrett's private ears.
[18:42] <CambersGhost> [discord] <DFK> Barrett seemed to be able to "read" text tho he was blind.
[18:42] <CambersGhost> [discord] <laurnarose> That is a cool way to discribe voices.  I like the idea of a Dusty rose voice
[18:43] <KK> I'd think utilizing that ability would require serious concentration and output of energy.
[18:43] <CambersGhost> [discord] <Evie the Verbose> She said our favorite professor had a brown voice, which I thought was pretty cool because he had a penchant for wearing brown tweed suits. 😄
[18:44] <CambersGhost> [discord] <DFK> IIRC it was pretty exhausting
[18:44] <CambersGhost> [discord] <laurnarose> That is an interesting persepective on personality traits.  What you wear is reflected in how you talk
[18:44] <CambersGhost> [discord] <TM> No "seemed", or at least he got the meaning if not seeing them. Yes, it's mentioned that it was tiring. I think that's implied as a reason why he was asleep when he first met Jehane.
[18:45] <CambersGhost> [discord] <Evie the Verbose> If I had that ability as a kid, I'd have been reading books all night long without worrying about my mom seeing the light from the flashlight through the crack under the door. LOL!
[18:45] <CambersGhost> [discord] <Evie the Verbose> Then she'd wonder why I couldn't wake up for school the next day
[18:46] <CambersGhost> [discord] <Evie the Verbose> Well, that would break down with me, since I can count the number of dusty rose outfits I own on the fingers of one knee.  😄
[18:46] <KK> We couldn't afford a flashlight for me, but I used to read under the covers with the battery powered jack o lantern light.t.
[18:47] <CambersGhost> [discord] <laurnarose> Because of my dyslexia I didn't start to read until I was 15. and I didn't discover novels (good ones) until I was in college.  Deryni Rising was one of my first full series of novels that I read. ( I think I mostly read Robin hood and King Arthur stories before that)  and I read Tolkien just after discovering Deryni
[18:48] <The_Bee> Very good books
[18:48] <CambersGhost> [discord] <DFK> If I could use powers to read I wouldn't have to spend so much time looking for my glasses
[18:48] <CambersGhost> [discord] <Jerusha2> Always wearing mine, so it's a bit easier
[18:48] <CambersGhost> [discord] <laurnarose> LOL DFK.   What is funny is I now have to take off my glasses to read.
[18:49] <CambersGhost> [discord] <Evie the Verbose> Tolkien is not all that beginner friendly, so good on you for tackling that series! The LOTR books brought my son's reading level up to a 12th grade level by the end of his 3rd grade year because he was so determined to get through them even though they were ridiculously above his grade level.
[18:49] <KK> I started out with SF, but always liked the character-driven books the best.  And then, in college, I realized how cool history was. And I'd read Tolkien in high school.
[18:49] <CambersGhost> [discord] <DFK> I need mine for distance but not for reading so am always putting them down and forgetting where.
[18:50] <CambersGhost> [discord] <stnezz> Heh, I read LotR when I was 11. It was a difficutl read, but i enjoyed it
[18:50] <The_Bee> I have prescription glasses for most things, but cheap reading glasses for reading.
[18:50] <CambersGhost> [discord] <laurnarose> Tolkien is still my most reread books.  About every 4 years I read it.  Deryni and Pern books are both on about 5 year reread scheldule.
[18:51] <CambersGhost> [discord] <Evie the Verbose> I have SO many glasses for a contact lens wearer! I have the regular prescription glasses for when I'm cleaning my contacts. I have non-prescription blue light blockers so I don't get eye strain working in front of a computer all day. And I have reading glasses so I can read tiny print or even just regular text if it's near the end of the day and my eyes are tired.
[18:51] <KK> That was me, too. The taking off of glasses to read.
[18:52] <CambersGhost> [discord] <Evie the Verbose> I had an 8th grade teacher whose required reading list was mostly fantasy and science fiction that year, so I grew to love it.
[18:52] <CambersGhost> [discord] <shiral_> Yup, I need my glasses for driving, but not reading
[18:52] <The_Bee> Has that changed since cataract surgery, KK?
[18:52] <CambersGhost> [discord] <DFK> Wouldn't it be cool if they used AI to create glasses that can correct your vision no matter what the problem is?
[18:53] <CambersGhost> [discord] <laurnarose> I have tried bifocles and progressive glasses.  but I just can not get use to them.   so my current glasses are for distance.  and I take them off for near.   I stopped wearing contacts during Covid year at work.
[18:54] <CambersGhost> [discord] <Evie the Verbose> My regular prescription glasses mostly do that anyway. They are progressive lenses, so I can wear them while reading or driving or doing mid-range vision stuff like watching TV. They have blue light blocking lenses so I don't get eyestrain when I have a lot of screen time. And they darken when I'm out in the sun, so I don't need sunglasses.
[18:54] <CambersGhost> [discord] <Evie the Verbose> How long did you use the progressive lenses? For some people and prescriptions, it can take two to three weeks for your eyes to fully adapt.
[18:55] <CambersGhost> [discord] <Jerusha2> I never had a problem with progressive lenses, but I know some people dp
[18:55] <CambersGhost> [discord] <Jerusha2> do, I meant
[18:55] <KK> Yes, Bee.  Now I use reading glasses, but not for most other functions.  I do have glasses for distance, like movies in a cinema, and those have a slight prism correction, because my muscle surgery has started to deteriorate a bit.  e
[18:55] <CambersGhost> [discord] <laurnarose> There is too much difference between my distance perscriptiosn -6.5  and my reading perscription -4.0   for the progressivis to work right
[18:56] <CambersGhost> [discord] <Evie the Verbose> Yeah, I never had a problem with mine either, but I've known several people who took a few weeks to get used to them, but did fine after that.
[18:56] <CambersGhost> [discord] <laurnarose> when I wore contacts.  One eye was distance and one eye was near sighted.  I wear them that way for decaedes.
[18:57] <CambersGhost> [discord] <Evie the Verbose> Ah. Yeah, I guess it might be hard to switch between those strengths gradually with the narrow band of glass between your distance viewing area and your reading viewing area.
[18:57] <CambersGhost> [discord] <Evie the Verbose> I wear contacts like that too
[18:57] <CambersGhost> [discord] <Jerusha2> I had to give up contacts because working on a computer all day dried my eyes out too much
[18:57] <CambersGhost> [discord] <Evie the Verbose> I did the multifocal lenses for a while and liked those, but for the lenses they recommend for my eyes now, I think it didn't come in a multifocal version.
[18:58] <The_Bee> I wore contacts in high school, but they made my eyes itch.
[18:58] <CambersGhost> [discord] <Evie the Verbose> I have to use eye lubrication drops fairly frequently
[18:58] <CambersGhost> [discord] <Evie the Verbose> Were they the hard glass kind, Bee?
[18:58] <KK> I've never really liked progressive lenses.  One can nearly get whiplash, trying to find the sweet spot.
[18:59] <The_Bee> Progressives didn't wwork for me.
[18:59] <CambersGhost> [discord] <stnezz> I just use bifocals and a seperate pair of glasses for computers.
[18:59] <CambersGhost> [discord] <laurnarose> I wore contacts from age 16 to age 58.  only going to glasses when covid hit
[18:59] <CambersGhost> [discord] <laurnarose> KK  I am so with you on that one. LOL
[18:59] <KK> My computer glasses are a weaker version of my reading glasses.
[18:59] <CambersGhost> [discord] <Evie the Verbose> I don't really need to move my head to use my progressive lenses. If I'm driving, my eyes naturally look straight ahead through the distance viewing part of my glasses, and if I'm reading something in front of me, my eyes normally look downwards through the correct part of the lens for reading. So there's not really any moving my head around looking for the right spot to look through.
[19:00] <CambersGhost> [discord] <stnezz> I stopped wearing contacts when I got my lasix, and then once my eyes got bad again, I couldn't wear contacts.
[19:01] <The_Bee> Maaybe if soft contacts had been invented earlier....
[19:01] <CambersGhost> [discord] <Evie the Verbose> Yeah, that's one reason why I hesitated getting lasix. I might consider it now, but nowadays it's more like if I've not needed lasix for 60 years, why bother now?  😄
[19:01] <CambersGhost> [discord] <laurnarose> Now that I think about it.  I only started reading when I got my contacts.  I wonder if bad eyesight has something to do with not wanting to read.
[19:02] <CambersGhost> [discord] <Evie the Verbose> It wouldn't have helped, certainly!
[19:02] <CambersGhost> [discord] <Evie the Verbose> No need to struggle with dyslexia AND bad eyesight!
[19:02] <CambersGhost> [discord] <laurnarose> Have to love the family genetics
[19:03] <The_Bee> My cataract surgery had much the safe effect as laser surgery, and insurance covered cataract surgery.
[19:04] <CambersGhost> [discord] <stnezz> I really want to get a vitrectomy to clear out the floaters in my eyes, and then cataract surgery shortly after that
[19:04] <The_Bee> same effect
[19:04] <CambersGhost> [discord] <Evie the Verbose> My daughter didn't really like to read until around middle school or high school because of her processing disorder (which was similar to dyslexia, but it would have taken additional testing we couldn't afford at the time to find out what it was more exactly).  But in her case it was more that her brain had finally learned to retain what she was reading for more than just a paragraph or two.
[19:05] <CambersGhost> [discord] <laurnarose> I can understand that.  especially when reading text books.  YAWN
[19:05] <KK> I started wearing hard contacts toward the end of college, but never did much reading with them in.  When I got around to trying soft lenses, my double vision started to kick in.  In Ireland, they diagnoses the double vision, but simply gave me a prescription with distance vision with prisms.  When we moved back to the US, my eye doctor here send
[19:05] <KK> me to see an eye surgeon at UVA, who could do the muscle surgery, but only after I had my cataracts done.  But after all the dust had settled, I was seeing better than I ever had in my life.  It's still very good except for desperately needing reading glasses for close up.
[19:05] <CambersGhost> [discord] <laurnarose> Give me a novel I will read all night. give me a text book and two sentenses in and I am asleep.
[19:06] <CambersGhost> [discord] <Evie the Verbose> I will probably need cataract surgery eventually, but not in the near future. At my last eye appointment, the optometrist told me "Congratulations, you've developed cataracts!" I thought that was an odd thing to congratulate me on, until she explained that pretty much everyone develops them sooner or later if they live long enough, so the fact I was starting to get them meant I'd <clipped mess
[19:06] <CambersGhost> [discord] <Evie the Verbose>  lived long enough to do so and hadn't died early.  😄
[19:06] <CambersGhost> [discord] <Jerusha2> Cheerful thought!
[19:07] <CambersGhost> [discord] <laurnarose> RIGHT?
[19:07] <CambersGhost> [discord] <stnezz> Hey, I was told I had cataracts for the first time this year too. we can be cataract buddies. 😄
[19:07] <CambersGhost> [discord] <Jerusha2> My doctor said I'll need cataract surgery in five to seven years.  I'm in no hurry
[19:07] <CambersGhost> [discord] <Evie the Verbose> The ancient Romans did cataract surgery. Modern cataract surgery tools are still pretty similar to the ones developed centuries ago.
[19:08] <CambersGhost> [discord] <laurnarose> Yikes
[19:08] <KK> At our advancing ages, we don't need no stinkin' textbooks! But I do read in bed
[19:08] <KK> for half an hour or so every night.
[19:08] <KK> The Romans did cataract surgery?!
[19:09] <CambersGhost> [discord] <Evie the Verbose> I still enjoy the occasional stinkin' textbook if it's about something I like learning about like medieval history.
[19:09] <CambersGhost> [discord] <laurnarose> I am sure it was call eye removal
[19:09] <The_Bee> I sometimes use a magnifying glass for tiny print.
[19:09] <CambersGhost> [discord] <Evie the Verbose> Yes, I think the Romans first developed it, KK.
[19:09] <CambersGhost> [discord] <Evie the Verbose> No, it was pretty much the same process, just not under the same conditions obviously.
[19:09] <KK> Me too, Evie.
[19:09] <CambersGhost> [discord] <shiral_> Thanks and all, but I'll try in two thousand years.,,,,
[19:10] <CambersGhost> [discord] <stnezz> If I take off my glasses, I can see almost any small text close up
[19:10] <CambersGhost> [discord] <laurnarose> I am with you Shiral
[19:10] <chris> yeah cataract surgery has been around for a long time
[19:10] <The_Bee> It must have been painful without anesthetics.
[19:10] <CambersGhost> [discord] <Evie the Verbose> They used opiates
[19:10] <CambersGhost> [discord] <Jerusha2> I agree, Evie
[19:10] <The_Bee> ah, better
[19:11] <CambersGhost> [discord] <shiral_> One look at the instruments and I'd have been OUT of there
[19:11] <CambersGhost> [discord] <laurnarose> These days they cookie cutter out the lens and replace it with a plastic lens.  Not sure how the romans would do that.
[19:11] <CambersGhost> [discord] <stnezz> replace with glass lens?
[19:11] <KK> Ugh! Cataract surgery without sedation and under non-sterile conditions!
[19:12] <CambersGhost> [discord] <Evie the Verbose> There is archeological evidence of a hospital on the English/Scots border that had medications including opiates back in the 1100s. My guess on why anesthesia was all but forgotten in later centuries is that a lot of that knowledge died out during the Black Death and other period when lots of people died.  Guild secrets tended to die along with them.
[19:12] <CambersGhost> [discord] <Jerusha2> I would have been very worried about infection
[19:12] <CambersGhost> [discord] <Evie the Verbose> They also had better hygienic practices than in later centuries, at least when it came to things like wound care.
[19:13] <CambersGhost> [discord] <Evie the Verbose> They didn't understand what germs were, but they knew the importance of cleanliness in healing.
[19:13] <CambersGhost> [discord] <laurnarose> That is because all the Deryni were removed from society
[19:13] <The_Bee> I recently read that midwives knew more than doctors, but they were ignored by doctors because they were women.
[19:13] <CambersGhost> [discord] <Evie the Verbose> Cataract surgery is a surgery in which cataracts are removed. This kind of surgery has been practiced since 29 CE in Ancient Rome.[107][108] According to Celsus' description of cataract surgery, surgeons would use their right hand to perform on the left eye, and vice versa. During the procedure a needle was inserted between the pupil and the temple until it "meets resistance." Th <clipped mess
[19:13] <CambersGhost> [discord] <Evie the Verbose> en, the surgeon would rotate the needle until the cataract had been pushed beneath the pupil.[2] Following the cataract surgery, the patient would be treated with "soothing Medicants" and wool soaked in the white of the egg. The patient would also exclusively drink water and abstain from solid food until they no longer had an inflammation, which was a side effect of the surgery.[ <clipped mess
[19:13] <CambersGhost> [discord] <Evie the Verbose> 109][110]
[19:14] <CambersGhost> [discord] <Jerusha2> NOT in any rush for cataract surgery!
[19:14] <CambersGhost> [discord] <Evie the Verbose> That's from the Wikipedia article on surgery in ancient Rome, though you can find more detailed descriptions from lots of other sources.
[19:14] <KK> Took them long enough to figure out why childbirth was so often fatal.  Milk fever. Pre-eclampsia.
[19:15] <CambersGhost> [discord] <Jerusha2> Re-using old sheets.  Eew
[19:15] <CambersGhost> [discord] <Jerusha2> (Not washed first)
[19:15] <CambersGhost> [discord] <laurnarose> EEWWW
[19:15] <CambersGhost> [discord] <Evie the Verbose> Yup.  I'll take mid-1900s or later childbirth, thank you!
[19:15] <The_Bee> As recently as the 19th century, cleanliness was not a priority.
[19:16] <KK> Yep.  Simple hand-washing would have saved so many lives....
[19:17] <The_Bee> Hooray for Dr. Lister
[19:17] <CambersGhost> [discord] <Evie the Verbose> Though again, the midwives earlier on tended to know basic things like keep your hands clean and keep the birthing area as clean as possible. That was knowledge that got lost later on also, especially once physicians decided that attending childbirths was a lucrative source of income and started edging the midwives out of it, and by that point in history, they weren't as scrupulo <clipped mess
[19:17] <CambersGhost> [discord] <Evie the Verbose> us about cleanliness.
[19:17] <CambersGhost> [discord] <laurnarose> I thought they did use achohol pretty early in healing
[19:17] <CambersGhost> [discord] <Evie the Verbose> Lots of things that used to be known had to be rediscovered.  Even concrete was originally a Roman invention that was lost for centuries.
[19:18] <CambersGhost> [discord] <Jerusha2> "Here, drink this..."
[19:18] <The_Bee> How  were midwives accused of witchcraft?
[19:18] <CambersGhost> [discord] <DFK> Remember all the emphasis on hand washing to prevent spreading Covid. Some things don't change
[19:18] <The_Bee> how often, I meant
[19:19] <CambersGhost> [discord] <Evie the Verbose> Well, to be fair, more frequent hand washing also helps to prevent the flu, common cold, and all sorts of things.  It's just that people rarely wash their hands as often as they should.
[19:19] <CambersGhost> [discord] <laurnarose> in the hospital, about twenty years ago, we had handwashing watchers with stop watches, who would time how long you washed your hands.  It had to be a full 30 sec
[19:19] <CambersGhost> [discord] <Evie the Verbose> When DD was in the RNICU, we had to do a two minute scrub before we could touch her.
[19:19] <CambersGhost> [discord] <DFK> Or as long, Ned to wash them for 20 seconds. Few people do
[19:20] <CambersGhost> [discord] <laurnarose> And that was before and after every patiennt
[19:20] <The_Bee> long enough to sine :Happy Birthday" twice.
[19:20] <The_Bee> sing
[19:20] <CambersGhost> [discord] <Evie the Verbose> Even my son, who was just short of three at the time, got his little hands scrubbed for two minutes, which actually hurt him and we told him he didn't need to do it as long as he promised not to touch her, but he insisted on doing it because he wanted to touch his baby sister.
[19:21] <CambersGhost> [discord] <laurnarose> ;oh yes.  NICU was very stringent on that
[19:21] <KK> Fortunately, she survived.
[19:22] <CambersGhost> [discord] <laurnarose> Our hospital once lostd 35 infants to a fungus that turned out to be under a nurses nails.
[19:22] <CambersGhost> [discord] <laurnarose> Believe me they were very stringent about NO Fake nails after that
[19:22] <CambersGhost> [discord] <Evie the Verbose> Yes.  DS was very high maintenance and made my life hell for 3 months.  DD got her high maintenance period out of the way in her first three weeks, then the rest of her infancy was smooth sailing.  😄
[19:23] <CambersGhost> [discord] <Evie the Verbose> That's terrifying, Laurna!
[19:23] <CambersGhost> [discord] <laurnarose> yes it was awefull.  they had to closs down the NICU unit for six months. and completely rebuild it.
[19:23] <CambersGhost> [discord] <Evie the Verbose> Wow!
[19:24] <CambersGhost> [discord] <shiral_> The nurse must have felt terrible
[19:24] <The_Bee> Do any of you remember the babies who died because salt instead of sugar was used in their formula?
[19:24] <CambersGhost> [discord] <laurnarose> Yes , I never found out about that part. only that it came from someones fake nails.
[19:25] <CambersGhost> [discord] <Evie the Verbose> I don't remember that about the formula, but that's awful
[19:25] <The_Bee> IIRC, a sugar bowl had been filled with salt, or something like that.
[19:26] <CambersGhost> [discord] <DFK> In ICU we couldn't have long nails or fake nails because of infection
[19:26] <CambersGhost> [discord] <laurnarose> agreed.  but this was like in the early 1990's
[19:26] <CambersGhost> [discord] <Jerusha2> A very hard lesson to learn
[19:27] <CambersGhost> [discord] <laurnarose> agreed
[19:27] <CambersGhost> [discord] <DFK> Germs lurk everywhere
[19:27] <CambersGhost> [discord] <DFK> They now use sheets infused with copper in hospitals to reduce infection
[19:28] <CambersGhost> [discord] <laurnarose> The body is mostly good at protecting us.  and I love the idea that it is our germs that will keep the extra terestials away. (Joking.... sort of)
[19:28] <The_Bee> a sci-fi writer blamed it onone of  the Fates' cutting the thread at the wrong  end.
[19:28] <The_Bee> Copper? Does that work?
[19:29] <CambersGhost> [discord] <laurnarose> Copper kills everyting on contact. but it litterally has to be against the copper surface with no air inbetween.
[19:29] <CambersGhost> [discord] <shiral_> Gonna head out everyone. Getting too toasty for comfort in my office
[19:30] <CambersGhost> [discord] <Jerusha2> Have a good week, Shiral
[19:30] * CambersGhost [discord] <shiral_> waves farewell, steps onto her portal and disappears in a cloud of blue steam
[19:30] <CambersGhost> [discord] <stnezz> night Shiral
[19:30] <The_Bee> bye shiral! Glad you came.
[19:30] <CambersGhost> [discord] <shiral_> Bye
[19:30] <CambersGhost> [discord] <DFK> Night Shiral
[19:30] <CambersGhost> [discord] <laurnarose> In early covid we only had one N95 mask a week.  and I kept mine smashed between two copper plates.  don't know if that helped. but I didn't get sick.
[19:30] <chris>    cya shiral
[19:30] <CambersGhost> [discord] <laurnarose> night Shiral
[19:30] <CambersGhost> [discord] <Evie the Verbose> I loved the movie Signs, up until the big reveal at the end when it turned out the aliens were allergic to water.  And that's when my disbelief was suspended around the neck until quite thoroughly dead.  🙄
[19:31] <KK> Okay, I need to get going, too, troops. It's getting dark out, and I need to close the blinds in the living room; and Miss Daphne has just come into the office crusading for dinner. See you all next week, and have a good week.
[19:31] <The_Bee> water? or salt water?
[19:31] <CambersGhost> [discord] <Evie the Verbose> Goodnight, KK!
[19:31] <CambersGhost> [discord] <Evie the Verbose> Just plain old water, Bee.
[19:31] <CambersGhost> [discord] <stnezz> g'night KK, have yourself a great week. 🙂
[19:31] <CambersGhost> [discord] <Jerusha2> Have a good week, KK
[19:31] <CambersGhost> [discord] <laurnarose> Good night KK
[19:31] <CambersGhost> [discord] <DFK> Night KK. Have a good week
[19:31] <KK> Nighters, all.
[19:31] <CambersGhost> [discord] <stnezz> And don't forget to do your exercises. 🙂
[19:31] <chris> have a good week KK
[19:31] <CambersGhost> [discord] <Jerusha2> I think I will go too.  Nighters, everyone!
[19:31] <The_Bee> Bhye, KK! Scritches to Daphne, and a good week to you.
[19:32] <CambersGhost> [discord] <laurnarose> Have a good week Jerusha
[19:32] <CambersGhost> [discord] <stnezz> night Jerusha
[19:32] <CambersGhost> [discord] <DFK> Night Jerusha
[19:32] <CambersGhost> [discord] <Jerusha2> You too
[19:32] <The_Bee> Good night and good week to all.
[19:32] * KK steps onto her Portal, waves goodnight, and disappears in a shower of green sparkles.
[19:32] <CambersGhost> [discord] <DFK> Night Ber
[19:32] <CambersGhost> [discord] <stnezz> night B
[19:32] <CambersGhost> [discord] <DFK> Bee
[19:33] <CambersGhost> [discord] <laurnarose> I need to go download Chris/Wash
[19:33] * KK (49ab39c5@CCN-FD80E4E6.hsd1.va.comcast.net) Quit (Quit: Client closed)