KK Chat -- 9 July 2023

[DesertRose]

[Sunday, July 9, 2023] [7:00:09 PM EDT] Join KK has joined this channel.
[Sunday, July 9, 2023] [7:00:18 PM EDT] <CambersGhost> [discord] <Evie the Verbose> Hello!
[Sunday, July 9, 2023] [7:00:25 PM EDT] <CambersGhost> [discord] <TM> It's a KK!
[Sunday, July 9, 2023] [7:00:26 PM EDT] <KK> Hello, all.
[Sunday, July 9, 2023] [7:01:06 PM EDT] <KK> Everyone having an interesting July?
[Sunday, July 9, 2023] [7:01:10 PM EDT] <CambersGhost> [discord] <Evie the Verbose> How are you today?
[Sunday, July 9, 2023] [7:01:22 PM EDT] <CambersGhost> [discord] <Evie the Verbose> It's hot, but that's expected for July in Alabama. 😄
[Sunday, July 9, 2023] [7:02:05 PM EDT] <KK> Back is in bits, knees ditto. I have physio tomorrow, thank God!
[Sunday, July 9, 2023] [7:02:50 PM EDT] <CambersGhost> [discord] <Evie the Verbose> Glad you'll be able to see them soon. I hear you about the knees and back. I just went to Ace Hardware today to pick up more of my favorite "Two Old Goats" cream for mine.
[Sunday, July 9, 2023] [7:03:21 PM EDT] <KK> Not too hot here today, but it's coming back. Storms; we need the rain.
[Sunday, July 9, 2023] [7:04:12 PM EDT] <KK> Two Old Goats? Is that akin to Two Chicks and a Hammer?
[Sunday, July 9, 2023] [7:04:15 PM EDT] <CambersGhost> [discord] <Evie the Verbose> Yeah, DH just went out to try to get the grass mowed before the rain gets here.
[Sunday, July 9, 2023] [7:04:41 PM EDT] Join The_Bee (4911ae5f@CCN-E70F1F12.hsd1.ma.comcast.net) has joined this channel.
[Sunday, July 9, 2023] [7:05:00 PM EDT] <CambersGhost> [discord] <Evie the Verbose> LOL, no, Two Old Goats is a lovely lotion (and now I just found a cream version too) that helps with pain relief without making you smell like horse liniment or heavy doses of menthol.
[Sunday, July 9, 2023] [7:05:06 PM EDT] <KK> My guys came Thursday afternoon; it bucketed later that night, so everything is growing again.
[Sunday, July 9, 2023] [7:05:24 PM EDT] <KK> I may check that out.
[Sunday, July 9, 2023] [7:05:29 PM EDT] <The_Bee> What do you grow?
[Sunday, July 9, 2023] [7:05:32 PM EDT] <CambersGhost> [discord] <Evie the Verbose> It smells more like lavender, rosemary, peppermint, and the other herbs it is made from, but it works surprisingly well.
[Sunday, July 9, 2023] [7:06:34 PM EDT] <KK> Grass, Bee. Lots of grass. And I have to keep it cut and tidy because I now live in a neighborhood. Also had to keep it cut at the old house, but that was another operation.
[Sunday, July 9, 2023] [7:06:43 PM EDT] <CambersGhost> [discord] <Evie the Verbose> I learned about it when I had my frozen shoulder problems and didn't want to take the opiate I was prescribed during my work day because I had to be able to function. It's not a miracle cure, so the frozen shoulder still hurt a fair bit, but it took the edge off the pain.
[Sunday, July 9, 2023] [7:07:21 PM EDT] <The_Bee> Every bit helps.
[Sunday, July 9, 2023] [7:07:35 PM EDT] <CambersGhost> [discord] <Evie the Verbose> And with my knee and back pain, it helps if I'm just dealing with mild to moderate achiness.
[Sunday, July 9, 2023] [7:08:04 PM EDT] <CambersGhost> [discord] <shiral_> Hello everyone
[Sunday, July 9, 2023] [7:08:11 PM EDT] <CambersGhost> [discord] <Evie the Verbose> Hi Shiral
[Sunday, July 9, 2023] [7:08:45 PM EDT] <The_Bee> Hi Shiral
[Sunday, July 9, 2023] [7:09:15 PM EDT] <CambersGhost> [discord] <shiral_> I didn't buy any old goats, but I did buy a new refrigerator today
[Sunday, July 9, 2023] [7:09:35 PM EDT] <CambersGhost> [discord] <Evie the Verbose> I would honestly rather go through childbirth again than have another frozen shoulder. At least those labor pains usually end in 8-24 hours, and you get a cool souvenir. 😂
[Sunday, July 9, 2023] [7:09:50 PM EDT] <KK> Well, I am slowly deciphering the mysteries of my new iPhone. In working with Cameron by phone, we discovered a feature that even he didn't know about. Anyone here know how to make the contact directory alphabetize by first names, like Android does?
[Sunday, July 9, 2023] [7:09:51 PM EDT] <The_Bee> good for you!
[Sunday, July 9, 2023] [7:09:54 PM EDT] <CambersGhost> [discord] <Evie the Verbose> Oh, cool! I mean, literally cool, since it's a fridge.... 😉
[Sunday, July 9, 2023] [7:10:38 PM EDT] <CambersGhost> [discord] <Evie the Verbose> Your phone likes to occasionally call me just to make sure I'm doing OK. 😄
[Sunday, July 9, 2023] [7:10:56 PM EDT] <CambersGhost> [discord] <Evie the Verbose> Too bad you're not on the phone line when it does that. LOL!
[Sunday, July 9, 2023] [7:11:09 PM EDT] <CambersGhost> [discord] <shiral_> I thought so too. My old refrigerator has been spontaneously freezing everything I had stored in it. I come home with what I think are a week's worth of produce, and then I open the crisper to find that my lettuce and asparagus were not only crisp, they were frozen
[Sunday, July 9, 2023] [7:11:31 PM EDT] <KK> A new fridge already, Shiral? But then again, I guess you've been in your condo a fair long time.
[Sunday, July 9, 2023] [7:11:41 PM EDT] <CambersGhost> [discord] <shiral_> And being frozen and thawing them does not improve their texture at all
[Sunday, July 9, 2023] [7:11:45 PM EDT] <CambersGhost> [discord] <Evie the Verbose> Oh no! Yeah, I guess if adjusting the thermostat doesn't stop that, it's time to replace it.
[Sunday, July 9, 2023] [7:12:00 PM EDT] <CambersGhost> [discord] <shiral_> It was a twenty year old fridge that came with my unit.
[Sunday, July 9, 2023] [7:12:36 PM EDT] <The_Bee> Does the new fridge belong to you, or is it condo property?
[Sunday, July 9, 2023] [7:12:44 PM EDT] <CambersGhost> [discord] <shiral_> I tried cleaning the coils in the back and that helped....a little. But then the problem would come right back.
[Sunday, July 9, 2023] [7:12:59 PM EDT] <CambersGhost> [discord] <Evie the Verbose> I imagine I might need to replace mine soon enough, given that it is older than both of my children. Only barely so, but it's getting up there.
[Sunday, July 9, 2023] [7:13:00 PM EDT] <CambersGhost> [discord] <shiral_> It belongs to me, since I own the unit
[Sunday, July 9, 2023] [7:13:22 PM EDT] <CambersGhost> [discord] <shiral_> AND I own the Condo
[Sunday, July 9, 2023] [7:13:33 PM EDT] <KK> How old was the previous one, Shiral, that came with the condo?
[Sunday, July 9, 2023] [7:13:47 PM EDT] <CambersGhost> [discord] <shiral_> The one I"m replacing is the one that's 20 years old
[Sunday, July 9, 2023] [7:14:29 PM EDT] <CambersGhost> [discord] <shiral_> And it's a pretty basic model, which is fine with me. But I want my fresh produce to stay unfrozen, ditto with any bottled drinks I'm story
[Sunday, July 9, 2023] [7:14:31 PM EDT] <CambersGhost> [discord] <shiral_> storing
[Sunday, July 9, 2023] [7:14:33 PM EDT] <CambersGhost> [discord] <Evie the Verbose> I hear the garage opening, so I am guessing DH managed to beat the rain.
[Sunday, July 9, 2023] [7:14:38 PM EDT] <KK> How old was the previous one, Shiral, that came with the condo?
[Sunday, July 9, 2023] [7:15:09 PM EDT] <CambersGhost> [discord] <shiral_> The 20 year old one is the one that came with the Condo. Today I went and got a shiny new one
[Sunday, July 9, 2023] [7:15:35 PM EDT] <CambersGhost> [discord] <shiral_> Which will be delivered tomorrow
[Sunday, July 9, 2023] [7:15:46 PM EDT] <CambersGhost> [discord] <shiral_> And they'll be hauling my old one away
[Sunday, July 9, 2023] [7:16:44 PM EDT] <KK> Hurrah!
[Sunday, July 9, 2023] [7:16:55 PM EDT] <CambersGhost> [discord] <Evie the Verbose> That's good, since it's hard to find a place to dispose of one otherwise. At least in my area, thrift stores won't accept used fridges.
[Sunday, July 9, 2023] [7:17:01 PM EDT] <CambersGhost> [discord] <shiral_> Had to take all the refrigerator magnets off it. I seem to have an impressive collection of them!
[Sunday, July 9, 2023] [7:17:15 PM EDT] <KK> Especially dead ones.
[Sunday, July 9, 2023] [7:17:30 PM EDT] <CambersGhost> [discord] <shiral_> If they can get it working for someone else, I'm fine with that. I just want a fridge that works
[Sunday, July 9, 2023] [7:17:34 PM EDT] <DesertRose> Okay, back from my supermarket run, only slightly damp. The temperature outside is somewhere between "ugh" and "not just no but [expletive deleted] no!" Because Florida in July.
[Sunday, July 9, 2023] [7:17:36 PM EDT] <CambersGhost> [discord] <Evie the Verbose> Yeah. Well, I'm not sure I would call her old one dead, just...overly enthusiastic? 😄
[Sunday, July 9, 2023] [7:17:51 PM EDT] <CambersGhost> [discord] <TM> Overachiever.
[Sunday, July 9, 2023] [7:17:57 PM EDT] <CambersGhost> [discord] <shiral_> Going through a late life crisis, definitely
[Sunday, July 9, 2023] [7:18:03 PM EDT] <CambersGhost> [discord] <TM> Exceeds expectations.
[Sunday, July 9, 2023] [7:18:11 PM EDT] <CambersGhost> [discord] <Evie the Verbose> 😂
[Sunday, July 9, 2023] [7:18:14 PM EDT] <CambersGhost> [discord] <TM> I thought a late life crisis would be HOT flashes.
[Sunday, July 9, 2023] [7:18:22 PM EDT] <The_Bee> If someone tries to sell you a fridge with a decal of Danny Gerber on it, don't buy it: it's older than I am.
[Sunday, July 9, 2023] [7:18:35 PM EDT] <CambersGhost> [discord] <shiral_> The first time I ever went to Florida was in August 2005. The only time I felt comfortable was when I was swimming
[Sunday, July 9, 2023] [7:18:48 PM EDT] <CambersGhost> [discord] <TM> Walking, that is?
[Sunday, July 9, 2023] [7:19:03 PM EDT] <CambersGhost> [discord] <TM> Walking, that is? That is, was there a difference between walking and swimming?
[Sunday, July 9, 2023] [7:19:25 PM EDT] <CambersGhost> [discord] <Evie the Verbose> If you're walking in Florida in August, you are likely swimming through air, at least if it's like Alabama in August!
[Sunday, July 9, 2023] [7:20:08 PM EDT] <CambersGhost> [discord] <shiral_> The walk to the beach was about 10 minutes, and by the time we returned to the house from the beach, we'd be all hot again!
[Sunday, July 9, 2023] [7:21:02 PM EDT] <CambersGhost> [discord] <shiral_> But I made my Mom's birthday cake while we were there and decorated it to look like the beach. She loved it
[Sunday, July 9, 2023] [7:21:03 PM EDT] <KK> II can remember sitting in the shallow water at the beach in high summer, and I couldn't detect any temperature difference on either side of the line where water met neck.
[Sunday, July 9, 2023] [7:21:20 PM EDT] <CambersGhost> [discord] <Evie the Verbose> My MIL is a Florida native. Now that she is up here, she keeps her thermostat up to 80F even in the summer, and then rushes to turn it back down to the mid-70s if she knows one of us is going to be over.
[Sunday, July 9, 2023] [7:21:27 PM EDT] <CambersGhost> [discord] <Evie the Verbose> But she thinks that is cold.
[Sunday, July 9, 2023] [7:21:53 PM EDT] <CambersGhost> [discord] <shiral_> I know. My mom's apartment always feels kind of like a green house to me
[Sunday, July 9, 2023] [7:22:22 PM EDT] <The_Bee> People are being warned not to swim in many Massachusetts beaches. The water is contaminated with .bacteria from fecal matter carried by floods.
[Sunday, July 9, 2023] [7:22:29 PM EDT] <CambersGhost> [discord] <Evie the Verbose> Ugh
[Sunday, July 9, 2023] [7:22:33 PM EDT] <CambersGhost> [discord] <shiral_> Ew.....
[Sunday, July 9, 2023] [7:22:37 PM EDT] <CambersGhost> [discord] <azdesertrose> Yuk
[Sunday, July 9, 2023] [7:23:09 PM EDT] <KK> Blech, Bee.
[Sunday, July 9, 2023] [7:23:16 PM EDT] <bynw> nasty Bee
[Sunday, July 9, 2023] [7:23:36 PM EDT] <CambersGhost> [discord] <TM> If I may: On a lighter note, I've been rereading *Deryni Rising*.
[Sunday, July 9, 2023] [7:23:36 PM EDT] <CambersGhost> [discord] <TM> Morgan nodded. "Kelson, I want you to just relax and let your mind go blank. You aren't able to operate one of these portals on your own, yet, so we're just going to carry you through between us like so many potatoes in a sack."
[Sunday, July 9, 2023] [7:23:46 PM EDT] <CambersGhost> [discord] <Evie the Verbose> Chatting while I get together a few of Luke and Gigi's old cat toys to give to my grandkitty Butters tonight, since we are going to bring some pizza to DS tonight after chat.
[Sunday, July 9, 2023] [7:23:50 PM EDT] <The_Bee> They say they have short-and-long-term solutions, but I can't imagine what.
[Sunday, July 9, 2023] [7:24:15 PM EDT] <CambersGhost> [discord] <shiral_> He's now the Potato King....
[Sunday, July 9, 2023] [7:24:32 PM EDT] <CambersGhost> [discord] <Evie the Verbose> LOL! In our medieval world, Kelson's reply should be "Um...Alaric, what's a potato?" 😄
[Sunday, July 9, 2023] [7:24:42 PM EDT] <CambersGhost> [discord] <TM> Joining Tolkein in the Old World Potato Club.
[Sunday, July 9, 2023] [7:25:07 PM EDT] <CambersGhost> [discord] <TM> Joining Tolkien in the Old World Potato Club.
[Sunday, July 9, 2023] [7:25:22 PM EDT] <CambersGhost> [discord] <TM> Joining Tolkien in the Old World Potato Club. Illustrious company.
[Sunday, July 9, 2023] [7:25:29 PM EDT] <The_Bee> Didn't KK change that to "apples" in the newer edition? I reminded her they didn't ahve potatoes in Gwynnedd back then.
[Sunday, July 9, 2023] [7:25:33 PM EDT] <CambersGhost> [discord] <Evie the Verbose> But since it appears to be canonical that Gwynedd had potatoes, that does expand the potential feast menu. Which is good, because I like 'taters a lot more than I like turnips!
[Sunday, July 9, 2023] [7:25:36 PM EDT] <CambersGhost> [discord] <azdesertrose> That, however, assumes exact analogues between the fantasy medieval Europes and the real medieval Europe's.
[Sunday, July 9, 2023] [7:25:39 PM EDT] <CambersGhost> [discord] <shiral_> Yes, I believe so
[Sunday, July 9, 2023] [7:26:06 PM EDT] <CambersGhost> [discord] <TM> Ah. I have 1st pb ed, 7th printing, 1980.
[Sunday, July 9, 2023] [7:26:29 PM EDT] <CambersGhost> [discord] <azdesertrose> Which we all know is not the case. Gwynedd/Middle-Earth can have potatoes if KK/Tolkien say so.😁
[Sunday, July 9, 2023] [7:26:32 PM EDT] <CambersGhost> [discord] <Evie the Verbose> My "Jass voice" in my head is begging for Gwyneddan cuisine to allow for pepperoni pizza. I'm giving him The Look. 😄
[Sunday, July 9, 2023] [7:26:32 PM EDT] <CambersGhost> [discord] <TM> In the French edition, strike "de terre" after "pommes".
[Sunday, July 9, 2023] [7:26:54 PM EDT] <KK> That's a good question. When did potatoes come to the Old World?
[Sunday, July 9, 2023] [7:27:03 PM EDT] <CambersGhost> [discord] <azdesertrose> That, however, assumes exact analogues between the fantasy medieval Europes and the real medieval Europe.
[Sunday, July 9, 2023] [7:27:17 PM EDT] <CambersGhost> [discord] <TM> Post Columbus, certainly.
[Sunday, July 9, 2023] [7:27:26 PM EDT] <CambersGhost> [discord] <TM> There are urban legends about their adoption.
[Sunday, July 9, 2023] [7:27:27 PM EDT] <CambersGhost> [discord] <azdesertrose> After the Spanish explored South America
[Sunday, July 9, 2023] [7:27:28 PM EDT] <CambersGhost> [discord] <Evie the Verbose> The Codex has herds of antelope (or maybe it was gazelles?) in Llyndruth Meadows, which sent AnnieUK into peals of giggles when she first discovered that.
[Sunday, July 9, 2023] [7:27:30 PM EDT] <CambersGhost> [discord] <shiral_> And I always wonder who decided "I think I'll call this thing I just dug out of the ground "a potato.:
[Sunday, July 9, 2023] [7:27:35 PM EDT] <The_Bee> I thought they originated in the Americas.
[Sunday, July 9, 2023] [7:27:48 PM EDT] <CambersGhost> [discord] <Evie the Verbose> Potatoes were in Elizabethan England, but as a novelty vegetable.
[Sunday, July 9, 2023] [7:28:06 PM EDT] <CambersGhost> [discord] <TM> https://www.bbc.com/travel/article/20200302-the-true-origins-of-the-humble-potato says into Europe in the mid 1500s.
[Sunday, July 9, 2023] [7:28:47 PM EDT] <CambersGhost> [discord] <azdesertrose> They're native to South America. The Inca (among other people) grew them for sure.
[Sunday, July 9, 2023] [7:29:00 PM EDT] <KK> I think you're right, Bee. That was early on in the creation of Gwynedd, and I just wasn't thinking clearly.'t
[Sunday, July 9, 2023] [7:29:13 PM EDT] <CambersGhost> [discord] <shiral_> Clearly Europeans developed a taste for them once they were available
[Sunday, July 9, 2023] [7:29:22 PM EDT] <CambersGhost> [discord] <Evie the Verbose> I can imagine the Royal Court getting them first, as well as maybe Rhemuth Market, though it might take a while for the common folk to be able to afford such a fancy imported food.
[Sunday, July 9, 2023] [7:29:34 PM EDT] <KK> Amazing, how they took root in the Old World.
[Sunday, July 9, 2023] [7:29:56 PM EDT] <CambersGhost> [discord] <shiral_> I guess I'll clear Tolkien, since Europe also didn't have hobbits. But LOTR would be the poorer without either hobbits or taters
[Sunday, July 9, 2023] [7:30:02 PM EDT] <CambersGhost> [discord] <azdesertrose> Tamora Pierce made the same oops with Tortall and potatoes. But Tolkien did it first so I think you're in good company if you just want to handwave it.
[Sunday, July 9, 2023] [7:30:13 PM EDT] <CambersGhost> [discord] <TM> There's a Tumblr rant that I just ran across -- I thought it was funny hyperbole, but others might find the pistol waving to be disturbing. It starts <<[To the devil with] that post going around saying "you can have coffee in your story without justifying it 🙂 you don't need to explain everything " I want, no, I DEMAND a fully researched ethnobotanical paper on every single <clipped message>
[Sunday, July 9, 2023] [7:30:13 PM EDT] <CambersGhost> [discord] <TM> food item in your work>> URL on request.
[Sunday, July 9, 2023] [7:30:34 PM EDT] <CambersGhost> [discord] <Evie the Verbose> LOL!
[Sunday, July 9, 2023] [7:30:35 PM EDT] <CambersGhost> [discord] <TM> Maybe KK was smoking pipeweed at the time.
[Sunday, July 9, 2023] [7:30:54 PM EDT] <The_Bee> Did Tolkien ever say exactly where on Earth his world was located?
[Sunday, July 9, 2023] [7:31:00 PM EDT] * CambersGhost [discord] <azdesertrose> launches a small bag of goldfish crackers at KK for the "took root" pun.
[Sunday, July 9, 2023] [7:31:04 PM EDT] <CambersGhost> [discord] <TM> [groan at the pun]
[Sunday, July 9, 2023] [7:31:30 PM EDT] <CambersGhost> [discord] <shiral_> Kelson and Alaric clearly discussed the matter over coffee.
[Sunday, July 9, 2023] [7:31:31 PM EDT] <KK> Well....
[Sunday, July 9, 2023] [7:31:38 PM EDT] <CambersGhost> [discord] <azdesertrose> It's not on Earth. That's why they can have taters if the author says so.
[Sunday, July 9, 2023] [7:31:39 PM EDT] <CambersGhost> [discord] <TM> Tolkien's original idea was a legendarium for Britain, I believe.
[Sunday, July 9, 2023] [7:31:58 PM EDT] <CambersGhost> [discord] <TM> The Tumblr rant included coffee, BTW.
[Sunday, July 9, 2023] [7:32:26 PM EDT] <CambersGhost> [discord] <Evie the Verbose> Middle-Earth is likely derived from Old English "middangeard" (I might have the spelling wrong after all these years), which means "middle-earth" but pretty much just means "the world we live in now." As opposed to "the world that once was" and "the world that will become in the future," I suppose.
[Sunday, July 9, 2023] [7:32:46 PM EDT] <CambersGhost> [discord] <shiral_> Well, if they want an ethnobotanical treatise from me, they have to find me, first. =o)
[Sunday, July 9, 2023] [7:32:52 PM EDT] <The_Bee> Tolkien caled it "Middle Earth," IIRC.
[Sunday, July 9, 2023] [7:33:33 PM EDT] <CambersGhost> [discord] <TM> A local SCA member had a little quiz he'd do at public demos: cans of food, and the task was to sort them into Old World and New World. Corn, artichoke, potatoes, pears, ...
[Sunday, July 9, 2023] [7:33:57 PM EDT] <CambersGhost> [discord] <Evie the Verbose> Sort of like referring to the "Middle Ages." In the middle of what?
[Sunday, July 9, 2023] [7:33:58 PM EDT] <CambersGhost> [discord] <TM> A local SCA member had a little quiz he'd do at public demos: cans of food, and the task was to sort them into Old World and New World. Corn, artichoke, potatoes, pears, ... I did not manage 100% when I did it.
[Sunday, July 9, 2023] [7:34:08 PM EDT] <The_Bee> I thought coffee came from Africa; so the 11 Kingdoms could have known about it.
[Sunday, July 9, 2023] [7:34:19 PM EDT] <CambersGhost> [discord] <azdesertrose> They are SOL on ethnobotany from me. Ethnolinguistics might happen but I couldn't fill the back of a postage stamp with what I know about botany.
[Sunday, July 9, 2023] [7:34:22 PM EDT] <KK> Sounds like a good demo quiz.
[Sunday, July 9, 2023] [7:34:51 PM EDT] <CambersGhost> [discord] <Evie the Verbose> Corn and potatoes are New World. I think pears are Old World, and am not sure about artichokes since I avoid those when possible. 😉
[Sunday, July 9, 2023] [7:34:53 PM EDT] <CambersGhost> [discord] <shiral_> Well, perhaps the R'Kassans know about Coffee in some early form..
[Sunday, July 9, 2023] [7:35:26 PM EDT] <CambersGhost> [discord] <shiral_> And from there, it spread north to Torenth.
[Sunday, July 9, 2023] [7:35:38 PM EDT] <CambersGhost> [discord] <Evie the Verbose> That is, if by corn you mean maize.
[Sunday, July 9, 2023] [7:35:43 PM EDT] <CambersGhost> [discord] <TM> yes, maize
[Sunday, July 9, 2023] [7:35:52 PM EDT] <CambersGhost> [discord] <Evie the Verbose> "Corn" in the King James Bible is not what we think of as corn in the US.
[Sunday, July 9, 2023] [7:35:57 PM EDT] <CambersGhost> [discord] <shiral_> I suspect, but don't know for sure that artichokes are new world
[Sunday, July 9, 2023] [7:36:05 PM EDT] <KK> Where and when did coffee enter the Arab world. I'm not a coffee drinker, so I haven't s clue.
[Sunday, July 9, 2023] [7:36:24 PM EDT] <CambersGhost> [discord] <azdesertrose> IIRC "corn" once meant grain of any sort.
[Sunday, July 9, 2023] [7:36:34 PM EDT] <The_Bee> Isn't "corn" a generic term for any grain in the UK?
[Sunday, July 9, 2023] [7:36:51 PM EDT] <CambersGhost> [discord] <TM> Wikipedia says, " Coffee was first cultivated in Ethiopia, then later introduced to other countries. In the 15th century, Sufi monasteries in Yemen employed coffee as an aid to concentration during prayers. ..."
[Sunday, July 9, 2023] [7:37:07 PM EDT] <CambersGhost> [discord] <Evie the Verbose> I don't know, KK, but if coffee is originally African, I do know Africa and Arabia had trade between those areas very early on.
[Sunday, July 9, 2023] [7:37:19 PM EDT] <CambersGhost> [discord] <shiral_> I've never researched that, but in our world, since Africa is close to the Arabian peninsula, it makes sense that it spread to the Middle-East and Arabian peninsula
[Sunday, July 9, 2023] [7:37:20 PM EDT] <CambersGhost> [discord] <Evie the Verbose> Yes, Bee
[Sunday, July 9, 2023] [7:37:41 PM EDT] <KK> Agree.
[Sunday, July 9, 2023] [7:37:54 PM EDT] <CambersGhost> [discord] <shiral_> Easier to concentrate on your prayers when you're wide awake, yes
[Sunday, July 9, 2023] [7:38:23 PM EDT] <CambersGhost> [discord] <shiral_> Going to sleep after that might be a problem, though....
[Sunday, July 9, 2023] [7:38:37 PM EDT] <KK> All true.
[Sunday, July 9, 2023] [7:38:43 PM EDT] <CambersGhost> [discord] <TM> Who are those folks that descended from the Michaelenes, the Anvilene Knights? Maybe they could pay for their skulking by selling coffee north. Or maybe that's the secret of why they're so good at skulking -- they're hyper-alert when everyone else is sleepy.
[Sunday, July 9, 2023] [7:38:57 PM EDT] <CambersGhost> [discord] <Evie the Verbose> I've done only a tiny bit of reading on the ancient kingdoms of Ghana, Mali, and later on, Songhay, but what little I've read was interesting.
[Sunday, July 9, 2023] [7:38:59 PM EDT] <CambersGhost> [discord] <azdesertrose> Hmm, I wonder if Brother Cadfael would have encountered coffee in his crusading days. Maybe a bit early for it to have reached Jerusalem.
[Sunday, July 9, 2023] [7:39:07 PM EDT] <CambersGhost> [discord] <laurnarose> I read where the spread of coffee drinking is associated with the end of the medial ages because people were not drinking as much mead and ale and were therefore clearer minded.
[Sunday, July 9, 2023] [7:39:14 PM EDT] <The_Bee> Depends whether they're morning prayers or evening prayers
[Sunday, July 9, 2023] [7:39:45 PM EDT] <CambersGhost> [discord] <azdesertrose> Or midday prayers. I can see needing a little alertness boost about then.
[Sunday, July 9, 2023] [7:40:05 PM EDT] <CambersGhost> [discord] <shiral_> The after lunch prayers. EVERYONE needs a pick-me up then
[Sunday, July 9, 2023] [7:40:21 PM EDT] <CambersGhost> [discord] <azdesertrose> Jinx, @shiral_
[Sunday, July 9, 2023] [7:40:24 PM EDT] <KK> Yes!
[Sunday, July 9, 2023] [7:40:46 PM EDT] <CambersGhost> [discord] <shiral_> We just think alike, DR. =o)
[Sunday, July 9, 2023] [7:40:56 PM EDT] <CambersGhost> [discord] <TM> I had the impression that medieval ale and beer and such were somewhat weaker than modern ones. Also, use makes master. Maybe like the late Queen Mum, their livers were used to it and would defend its corner.
[Sunday, July 9, 2023] [7:40:58 PM EDT] <CambersGhost> [discord] <azdesertrose> Scary, wot?
[Sunday, July 9, 2023] [7:41:08 PM EDT] <CambersGhost> [discord] <TM> I had the impression that medieval ale and beer and such were somewhat weaker than modern ones. Also, use makes master: maybe like the late Queen Mum, their livers were used to it and would defend its corner.
[Sunday, July 9, 2023] [7:41:21 PM EDT] <CambersGhost> [discord] <shiral_> Especially if you're a monk and you have to attend a very dull chapter meeting of your Order after the middday meal....
[Sunday, July 9, 2023] [7:41:25 PM EDT] <CambersGhost> [discord] <shiral_> And it's hot...
[Sunday, July 9, 2023] [7:41:29 PM EDT] <CambersGhost> [discord] <Evie the Verbose> Medieval drinks were much lower in alcohol content, especially if it was "small beer," which was given to young children.
[Sunday, July 9, 2023] [7:41:33 PM EDT] <CambersGhost> [discord] <azdesertrose> Most medieval ales and beers were 3% abv at most.
[Sunday, July 9, 2023] [7:42:08 PM EDT] <CambersGhost> [discord] <azdesertrose> Modern ones can be four times as strong.
[Sunday, July 9, 2023] [7:42:22 PM EDT] <CambersGhost> [discord] <Evie the Verbose> But then again, they drank a lot more of it throughout the day than we normally would today. So it's fortunate it wasn't as strong, or just about everyone would have been an alcoholic!
[Sunday, July 9, 2023] [7:42:40 PM EDT] <CambersGhost> [discord] <laurnarose> Never the less they still had some alcohol content, and if you drank it all the time. you would be in a slight buzz. coffee on the other hand has no alcohol, Unless you add it.
[Sunday, July 9, 2023] [7:42:50 PM EDT] <CambersGhost> [discord] <shiral_> According to Alaric, Derry has a high capacity for ale. and probably wine...
[Sunday, July 9, 2023] [7:42:58 PM EDT] <The_Bee> I read once that monks and friars were very well fed. Food was the only pleasure allowed by their vows.
[Sunday, July 9, 2023] [7:43:06 PM EDT] <CambersGhost> [discord] <azdesertrose> Better slightly tipsy than sick from contaminated water, though.
[Sunday, July 9, 2023] [7:43:07 PM EDT] <CambersGhost> [discord] <Evie the Verbose> Since not every location had a source of fresh, clean water, the boiling involved in the brewing process made ales and beers safer to drink.
[Sunday, July 9, 2023] [7:43:28 PM EDT] <CambersGhost> [discord] <TM> Drinking water was very popular in the middle ages.
[Sunday, July 9, 2023] [7:43:41 PM EDT] <CambersGhost> [discord] <azdesertrose> Dysentery isn't fun.
[Sunday, July 9, 2023] [7:44:05 PM EDT] <CambersGhost> [discord] <shiral_> I'm pretty sure medieval plumbing wasn't much fun, either
[Sunday, July 9, 2023] [7:44:48 PM EDT] <CambersGhost> [discord] <laurnarose> That is why the east bowled tea leaves in water and the middle east bowled coffee beans.
[Sunday, July 9, 2023] [7:45:06 PM EDT] <CambersGhost> [discord] <TM> https://www.reddit.com/r/AskHistorians/comments/7b8jea/is_it_true_most_people_in_medieval_europe_drank/dpgj9wp/ and https://www.reddit.com/r/AskHistorians/comments/2bewpo/what_factors_made_beer_so_important_to_the/cj76n6f/ are not long reads on it. Most people lived in the countryside and had no problem getting (reasonably) clean water.
[Sunday, July 9, 2023] [7:45:07 PM EDT] <The_Bee> I imagine they could use the latrines to fertilize the fields.
[Sunday, July 9, 2023] [7:45:35 PM EDT] <CambersGhost> [discord] <Evie the Verbose> My router seems to have cut out. Checking to see if chat works on my phone.
[Sunday, July 9, 2023] [7:45:47 PM EDT] <The_Bee> nine-pin or ten-pin bowling with tea or coffee?
[Sunday, July 9, 2023] [7:45:54 PM EDT] <CambersGhost> [discord] <TM> Interestingly, "But there's plenty of evidence for the consumption of water even outside circumstances of destitute poverty or penance. For example, a letter from a Spanish doctor to his sons at university in Toulouse, from the early 14th century, tells them to avoid drinking water from a specific river near town--unless it is boiled. That's right; they absolutely understood that <clipped message>
[Sunday, July 9, 2023] [7:45:55 PM EDT] <CambersGhost> [discord] <TM> heating water could make it safe to drink."
[Sunday, July 9, 2023] [7:46:46 PM EDT] <CambersGhost> [discord] <Evie the Verbose> Yes, rural areas had better access to clean water than cities, and there were fewer cities.
[Sunday, July 9, 2023] [7:47:02 PM EDT] <CambersGhost> [discord] <laurnarose> I myself never learned to drink beer. I had a sip yesterday with family, the first sip is like ok not so bad. The second sip is like Not so good. and the third sip is like NOPE Never drinking this stuff.
[Sunday, July 9, 2023] [7:47:07 PM EDT] <KK> I find myself thinking about when dysentery was raging through a military camp, and the men would still have to go into battle with--er--poop running down their legs.
[Sunday, July 9, 2023] [7:47:35 PM EDT] <CambersGhost> [discord] <TM> AAAAAND we're back to poop in the water. There's no stoppin' y'all.
[Sunday, July 9, 2023] [7:47:43 PM EDT] <CambersGhost> [discord] <azdesertrose> True, if you lived in a rural area, clean water was easier to come by, and they did know to boil water to make it clean. But city people (which are where most of the surviving records that aren't monastic are) didn't necessarily have a clean river, stream, or whatever readily available.
[Sunday, July 9, 2023] [7:47:48 PM EDT] <CambersGhost> [discord] <laurnarose> Yicks
[Sunday, July 9, 2023] [7:47:50 PM EDT] <CambersGhost> [discord] <shiral_> Hey, let's have some peace talks, shall we?
[Sunday, July 9, 2023] [7:47:53 PM EDT] <The_Bee> poop or blood
[Sunday, July 9, 2023] [7:48:02 PM EDT] <CambersGhost> [discord] <shiral_> Nobody feels up to fighting, today...."
[Sunday, July 9, 2023] [7:48:18 PM EDT] <CambersGhost> [discord] <azdesertrose> Not a beer fan either.
[Sunday, July 9, 2023] [7:48:32 PM EDT] <CambersGhost> [discord] <Evie the Verbose> And even though they didn't have the concept of germs yet, they had the concept of clean vs dirty or stagnant water, knew that illness was somehow linked to bad smells, and knew that waste had to be kept away from the water supply if at all possible.
[Sunday, July 9, 2023] [7:48:57 PM EDT] <CambersGhost> [discord] <TM> "Additionally, there is lots of evidence to suggest extreme measures taken against people who polluted water in city fountains and wells - the suspected Italian woman well-poisoner who was flayed alive, for example. Or the time the visiting cardinal in Viterbo started an actual riot when his assistant bathed his dog in the town fountain, making the water dirty."
[Sunday, July 9, 2023] [7:49:12 PM EDT] <CambersGhost> [discord] <shiral_> Not a big mystery why you had to be pretty darn hardy and strong to survive
[Sunday, July 9, 2023] [7:49:23 PM EDT] <CambersGhost> [discord] <Evie the Verbose> (Though they were less fussy about keeping it out of the water that might be downstream and headed towards another village.)
[Sunday, July 9, 2023] [7:49:33 PM EDT] <The_Bee> That's why you peed downstream from your cooking-water supply.
[Sunday, July 9, 2023] [7:49:56 PM EDT] <CambersGhost> [discord] <laurnarose> I agree with that Evie
[Sunday, July 9, 2023] [7:50:30 PM EDT] <CambersGhost> [discord] <shiral_> Gee....er, glad I stopped by for chat today.... 🥴
[Sunday, July 9, 2023] [7:50:33 PM EDT] <CambersGhost> [discord] <TM> "pretty darn hardy and strong to survive" -- as a tangent, I did notice the Alaric books' high death toll before adulthood.
[Sunday, July 9, 2023] [7:50:47 PM EDT] <CambersGhost> [discord] <TM> I was impressed.
[Sunday, July 9, 2023] [7:51:03 PM EDT] <CambersGhost> [discord] <shiral_> Alroy, although sickly, was one of the stronger ones to have made it to 16
[Sunday, July 9, 2023] [7:51:13 PM EDT] <The_Bee> Can Healers do much against disease?
[Sunday, July 9, 2023] [7:51:31 PM EDT] <CambersGhost> [discord] <azdesertrose> I've had a few I liked, but they've been the ones that don't really taste like beer, such as lambic (Lindemann framboise is v nice).
[Sunday, July 9, 2023] [7:51:32 PM EDT] <CambersGhost> [discord] <TM> I would imagine so? Couldn't they cure infected wounds?
[Sunday, July 9, 2023] [7:51:48 PM EDT] <CambersGhost> [discord] <TM> Healers do much against disease: I would imagine so? Couldn't they cure infected wounds?
[Sunday, July 9, 2023] [7:51:54 PM EDT] <CambersGhost> [discord] <Evie the Verbose> Yeah, early childhood and old age (if you made it that long) were and still are the danger years, though there was more that could kill you in between if you were unlucky enough.
[Sunday, July 9, 2023] [7:52:15 PM EDT] <CambersGhost> [discord] <azdesertrose> And the childbearing years.
[Sunday, July 9, 2023] [7:52:17 PM EDT] <CambersGhost> [discord] <TM> Healers do much against disease: I would imagine so? Couldn't they cure infected wounds? If you didn't come down with a bad case of regents (sucks to be you, Rhys Michael).
[Sunday, July 9, 2023] [7:52:28 PM EDT] <CambersGhost> [discord] <shiral_> They probably know a lot about herbal cures against the symptoms of illness to make the patient more comfortable, but couldn't necessarily "cure" them
[Sunday, July 9, 2023] [7:52:28 PM EDT] <CambersGhost> [discord] <stnezz> Oooh, pee and death, great conversation I walked in on. 😄
[Sunday, July 9, 2023] [7:52:43 PM EDT] <CambersGhost> [discord] <azdesertrose> Dangerous stuff, pregnancy and labor.
[Sunday, July 9, 2023] [7:52:51 PM EDT] <The_Bee> Diseases and wounds work differently.
[Sunday, July 9, 2023] [7:53:11 PM EDT] <CambersGhost> [discord] <shiral_> Life eventually it will kill you
[Sunday, July 9, 2023] [7:53:27 PM EDT] <CambersGhost> [discord] <TM> Infected wounds, though ... also bacteria and protozoa and stuff.
[Sunday, July 9, 2023] [7:53:28 PM EDT] <CambersGhost> [discord] <laurnarose> Hello Nezz
[Sunday, July 9, 2023] [7:53:32 PM EDT] <KK> They could certainly lessen the symptoms of disease, but doubt they could cure it. Otherwise, they'd have had a cure for the common cold.
[Sunday, July 9, 2023] [7:53:34 PM EDT] <CambersGhost> [discord] <shiral_> Hi Nezz.
[Sunday, July 9, 2023] [7:53:44 PM EDT] <The_Bee> Hi Nezz
[Sunday, July 9, 2023] [7:53:45 PM EDT] <KK> Hi, Nexx.
[Sunday, July 9, 2023] [7:53:46 PM EDT] <CambersGhost> [discord] <azdesertrose> Don't take it too seriously, none of us are getting out of here alive.
[Sunday, July 9, 2023] [7:53:49 PM EDT] <CambersGhost> [discord] <azdesertrose> Hi Nezz
[Sunday, July 9, 2023] [7:53:54 PM EDT] <CambersGhost> [discord] <shiral_> And we still don't have that. the cure for the common cold that is
[Sunday, July 9, 2023] [7:53:54 PM EDT] <CambersGhost> [discord] <Evie the Verbose> I was reading a fun Facebook post this morning about describing your job in the worst possible way, and one woman wrote "Creating crotch-goblins and keeping them alive long enough to reach adulthood." 😂
[Sunday, July 9, 2023] [7:53:56 PM EDT] <KK> Nezz, too.
[Sunday, July 9, 2023] [7:54:15 PM EDT] <CambersGhost> [discord] <stnezz> Hi Laurna, Shiral, Bee, Kk, DR
[Sunday, July 9, 2023] [7:54:15 PM EDT] <CambersGhost> [discord] <TM> I was imagining that they could go "people tissue keep living, things that aren't people tissue, time to die".
[Sunday, July 9, 2023] [7:54:29 PM EDT] <CambersGhost> [discord] <azdesertrose> Because the common cold isn't a single virus.
[Sunday, July 9, 2023] [7:54:32 PM EDT] <CambersGhost> [discord] <laurnarose> They have proven that the medial ages had medicine to cure bacterial infections.
[Sunday, July 9, 2023] [7:54:44 PM EDT] <CambersGhost> [discord] <shiral_> Motherhood definitely wasn't for the faint of heart
[Sunday, July 9, 2023] [7:55:06 PM EDT] <CambersGhost> [discord] <shiral_> It still isn't, really....
[Sunday, July 9, 2023] [7:55:07 PM EDT] <CambersGhost> [discord] <stnezz> That's why I ran screaming from the thought. 🙂
[Sunday, July 9, 2023] [7:55:18 PM EDT] <The_Bee> AKK's description.
[Sunday, July 9, 2023] [7:55:27 PM EDT] <CambersGhost> [discord] <azdesertrose> Oh, yeah, that horrendous concoction that turns out to cure MRSA.
[Sunday, July 9, 2023] [7:55:58 PM EDT] <CambersGhost> [discord] <Evie the Verbose> They had opiates in the early medieval period too, which is why it baffles me how much medical knowledge was lost by the so-called Renaissance.
[Sunday, July 9, 2023] [7:56:01 PM EDT] <CambersGhost> [discord] <TM> Well, if they KNEW it was a good cure for something.
[Sunday, July 9, 2023] [7:56:02 PM EDT] <CambersGhost> [discord] <shiral_> Maybe why they say "The cure is worse than the disease"
[Sunday, July 9, 2023] [7:56:21 PM EDT] <CambersGhost> [discord] <stnezz> TM, but aren't there loads of non-people stuff in our bodies that we need?
[Sunday, July 9, 2023] [7:56:26 PM EDT] <CambersGhost> [discord] <laurnarose> Well Hey, they had hundreds of years to test every kind of concotion they could cook up
[Sunday, July 9, 2023] [7:56:27 PM EDT] <CambersGhost> [discord] <azdesertrose> Nah, I would take the horrendous concoction over MRSA.
[Sunday, July 9, 2023] [7:57:08 PM EDT] <KK> Think how many people have died from being bled.
[Sunday, July 9, 2023] [7:57:14 PM EDT] <CambersGhost> [discord] <azdesertrose> But only if I had MRSA. Otherwise the horrendous concoction can stay far away.
[Sunday, July 9, 2023] [7:57:20 PM EDT] <CambersGhost> [discord] <stnezz> Ugh!!!
[Sunday, July 9, 2023] [7:57:26 PM EDT] <CambersGhost> [discord] <azdesertrose> Poor Rhys Michael.
[Sunday, July 9, 2023] [7:57:39 PM EDT] <CambersGhost> [discord] <shiral_> Then there was the unhelpful monk who poured the medicine that was helping Rhys Michael because he suspected "Tacil" was a Deryni drug.
[Sunday, July 9, 2023] [7:58:13 PM EDT] <The_Bee> George Washington's death may have been hastened by bleeding.
[Sunday, July 9, 2023] [7:58:14 PM EDT] <CambersGhost> [discord] <TM> I thought it was deliberate on the regents' part, for RM?
[Sunday, July 9, 2023] [7:58:20 PM EDT] <CambersGhost> [discord] <laurnarose> I just never could figure out how they thought that bleeding could help someone and not make it worse. I mean trial and error should prove the error of that cure.
[Sunday, July 9, 2023] [7:58:22 PM EDT] <CambersGhost> [discord] <azdesertrose> It was
[Sunday, July 9, 2023] [7:58:25 PM EDT] <CambersGhost> [discord] <TM> I thought it was deliberate on the regents' part, for Rhys Michael?
[Sunday, July 9, 2023] [7:58:37 PM EDT] <CambersGhost> [discord] <shiral_> Definitely don't join the Custodes Fidei. They weren't any fun
[Sunday, July 9, 2023] [7:58:56 PM EDT] <CambersGhost> [discord] <laurnarose> NOPE
[Sunday, July 9, 2023] [7:59:14 PM EDT] <CambersGhost> [discord] <shiral_> As Javan pointed out, they knew how to be menacing in the guise of "helping" with the practice of bleeding
[Sunday, July 9, 2023] [7:59:28 PM EDT] <CambersGhost> [discord] <Evie the Verbose> Midwives knew about hand washing. Infant and maternal mortality rates grew after physicians decided to go into the childbirth business. But even they knew about hand washing earlier on. I suspect the various plagues killed off a lot of medical knowledge that took a few centuries to regain.
[Sunday, July 9, 2023] [7:59:59 PM EDT] <CambersGhost> [discord] <TM> I'm no historian of medicine, but I suspect that they didn't have a lot of reliable info to lose ...
[Sunday, July 9, 2023] [8:00:02 PM EDT] <KK> It was deliberate. That's why I made a point of the minution being a double-edged sword.
[Sunday, July 9, 2023] [8:00:27 PM EDT] <CambersGhost> [discord] <shiral_> And Rhys Michael learned it the hard way...
[Sunday, July 9, 2023] [8:00:39 PM EDT] <CambersGhost> [discord] <azdesertrose> There were probably enough people who recovered after being bled (and there are actually a few illnesses that ARE improved by bleeding) that the post hoc ergo propter hoc fallacy came into play..
[Sunday, July 9, 2023] [8:00:40 PM EDT] <CambersGhost> [discord] <TM> "Minution is a term applied by monastics of the Middle Ages to phlebotomy" ... huh, I did not know that word.
[Sunday, July 9, 2023] [8:00:59 PM EDT] <CambersGhost> [discord] <stnezz> Me neither 🙂
[Sunday, July 9, 2023] [8:01:06 PM EDT] <CambersGhost> [discord] <Evie the Verbose> @TM You'd be surprised how much better 12th Century medicine was in some ways compared to, say, 16th or 17th Century, though.
[Sunday, July 9, 2023] [8:01:12 PM EDT] <CambersGhost> [discord] <TM> Even today, the fact that a lot of diseases cure on their own screws up drug testing.
[Sunday, July 9, 2023] [8:01:22 PM EDT] <The_Bee> Phlebotomists only take a few ounces.
[Sunday, July 9, 2023] [8:01:23 PM EDT] <CambersGhost> [discord] <azdesertrose> Yup
[Sunday, July 9, 2023] [8:01:31 PM EDT] <CambersGhost> [discord] <shiral_> And mid-wives could come under suspicion of being "witches" when they applied too much common sense to their care of infants and new mothers
[Sunday, July 9, 2023] [8:01:45 PM EDT] <CambersGhost> [discord] <azdesertrose> Yup to that too.
[Sunday, July 9, 2023] [8:02:12 PM EDT] <CambersGhost> [discord] <shiral_> What a depressing thing that must have been.
[Sunday, July 9, 2023] [8:02:46 PM EDT] <CambersGhost> [discord] <shiral_> They called it the Dark Ages for a good reason
[Sunday, July 9, 2023] [8:03:22 PM EDT] <CambersGhost> [discord] <Evie the Verbose> Minution was also used in monasteries to help suppress libido
[Sunday, July 9, 2023] [8:03:30 PM EDT] <The_Bee> Did people call it "dark ages" during the dark ges?
[Sunday, July 9, 2023] [8:03:30 PM EDT] <KK> I have polycythemia vera, and I have to get phlebotomy several times a year, to keep the red cell count from getting too high. It's the first step in lesening the effects of a condition that can't presently be cured.
[Sunday, July 9, 2023] [8:03:30 PM EDT] <CambersGhost> [discord] <azdesertrose> I was reading about how the Ottomans used variolation against smallpox, and Lady Mary Wortley Montagu (sp?) brought the practice to England (her husband was at one time the British ambassador to Turkey).
[Sunday, July 9, 2023] [8:03:52 PM EDT] <CambersGhost> [discord] <shiral_> You could suppress it pretty darn well that way, I should think...
[Sunday, July 9, 2023] [8:04:02 PM EDT] <CambersGhost> [discord] <TM> Pro historians have abandoned the term "Dark Ages" because there's no evidence that they were particularly dark. "Feudalism" is also on its death-bed.
[Sunday, July 9, 2023] [8:04:12 PM EDT] <CambersGhost> [discord] <Evie the Verbose> Witch burnings actually were more of a Renaissance than a medieval thing. They didn't really start until the very tail end of the Middle Ages.
[Sunday, July 9, 2023] [8:04:50 PM EDT] <CambersGhost> [discord] <stnezz> KK, I think my bil has the same thing. We joke about him getting bled with leeches
[Sunday, July 9, 2023] [8:04:53 PM EDT] <CambersGhost> [discord] <TM> "Dark ages" was a term of abuse during the Renaissance, by people saying that returning to the Classics was way cooler. "Feudalism" was also well after the period it was purported to describe.
[Sunday, July 9, 2023] [8:05:03 PM EDT] <CambersGhost> [discord] <shiral_> Fine...so drink some icky water and you're still pretty badly off
[Sunday, July 9, 2023] [8:05:17 PM EDT] <CambersGhost> [discord] <azdesertrose> And then the doctors went and threw out all the "old wives' tales" elements and made it less safe, until Edward Jenner developed a proper vaccine.
[Sunday, July 9, 2023] [8:06:35 PM EDT] * CambersGhost [discord] <shiral_> decides to lighten the mood with cupcakes
[Sunday, July 9, 2023] [8:06:53 PM EDT] <CambersGhost> [discord] <Evie the Verbose> Ooh, I'll have a carrot cake cupcake with cream cheese icing!
[Sunday, July 9, 2023] [8:06:54 PM EDT] <CambersGhost> [discord] <azdesertrose> Yum, cupcakes!
[Sunday, July 9, 2023] [8:07:05 PM EDT] <KK> No leeches for me. I do regret that the blood can't be used for anything. It's caused by a blood mutation, but they don't know why this occurs, or what triggers it. So no transfusions with my blood. I wonder if it would affect vampires....
[Sunday, July 9, 2023] [8:07:19 PM EDT] <CambersGhost> [discord] <TM> Thanks, Shiral! Here in central Texas, I could probably make them just be setting them outside for 12 minutes ...
[Sunday, July 9, 2023] [8:07:29 PM EDT] <CambersGhost> [discord] <Evie the Verbose> And leeches on the side...no, wait, hold the leeches. No, on second thought, don't hold them; that's inadvisable.
[Sunday, July 9, 2023] [8:07:36 PM EDT] <CambersGhost> [discord] <TM> Thanks, Shiral! Here in central Texas, I could probably make them just by setting them outside for 12 minutes ...
[Sunday, July 9, 2023] [8:07:48 PM EDT] * The_Bee selects a honey-flavored cupcake
[Sunday, July 9, 2023] [8:07:50 PM EDT] * CambersGhost [discord] <shiral_> picks the chocolate cupcake with the salted caramel filling
[Sunday, July 9, 2023] [8:08:05 PM EDT] <CambersGhost> [discord] <TM> I haven't had a meal yet -- this is cruel!
[Sunday, July 9, 2023] [8:08:11 PM EDT] <CambersGhost> [discord] <azdesertrose> Sometimes I refer to getting blood drawn as "visiting the vampires."
[Sunday, July 9, 2023] [8:08:19 PM EDT] <CambersGhost> [discord] <laurnarose> lemon cupcake for me today
[Sunday, July 9, 2023] [8:08:36 PM EDT] <CambersGhost> [discord] <Evie the Verbose> I can't donate blood anymore either, ever since the Red Cross discovered I spent exactly 3 months in the UK. If I had spent 2 months and 3 weeks there, I could still donate, but apparently being there exactly three months puts me at hypothetical risk of becoming a mad cow. 😄
[Sunday, July 9, 2023] [8:08:39 PM EDT] <CambersGhost> [discord] <TM> I like vanilla, actually.
[Sunday, July 9, 2023] [8:08:50 PM EDT] <CambersGhost> [discord] <azdesertrose> Not that the lab techs consume my blood, but they definitely take plenty.
[Sunday, July 9, 2023] [8:09:03 PM EDT] <CambersGhost> [discord] <shiral_> Wow, I'd forgotten about Mad Cow disease
[Sunday, July 9, 2023] [8:09:30 PM EDT] * CambersGhost [discord] <shiral_> hands TM a vanilla cupcake
[Sunday, July 9, 2023] [8:09:37 PM EDT] <CambersGhost> [discord] <stnezz> I'll take one of every flavor cupcake. 🙂
[Sunday, July 9, 2023] [8:09:48 PM EDT] <KK> I had a huge lunch with a serious fan here in Staunton. I had tile fish, which I'd never heard of. Yummy, though. It's a really fine restaurant.
[Sunday, July 9, 2023] [8:09:50 PM EDT] <CambersGhost> [discord] <azdesertrose> I can't donate blood anymore because I'm basically always a little dizzy, and they don't like it when you pass out on them.
[Sunday, July 9, 2023] [8:09:59 PM EDT] <CambersGhost> [discord] <TM> Tile fish?
[Sunday, July 9, 2023] [8:10:07 PM EDT] <CambersGhost> [discord] <Evie the Verbose> DH is giving me notice that he intends for us to leave here right after he gets out of the shower (well, once he has clothes back on, hopefully!), so I will be logging out soon.
[Sunday, July 9, 2023] [8:10:12 PM EDT] <CambersGhost> [discord] <shiral_> They were a Deryni fan, or a tile fish fan?
[Sunday, July 9, 2023] [8:10:41 PM EDT] <CambersGhost> [discord] <Evie the Verbose> Is tile fish another name for tilapia, or something different?
[Sunday, July 9, 2023] [8:10:42 PM EDT] <CambersGhost> [discord] <azdesertrose> Yes, I hope DH doesn't plan to leave the house in his birthday suit!
[Sunday, July 9, 2023] [8:10:56 PM EDT] <KK> Deryni fan, but also a seafood fan. He owns the restaurant.
[Sunday, July 9, 2023] [8:10:57 PM EDT] <CambersGhost> [discord] <shiral_> I'm glad he's going to get dressed after his shower, Evie. 😉
[Sunday, July 9, 2023] [8:11:11 PM EDT] <CambersGhost> [discord] <TM> Looks like tile fish is a class of fishies. Mild like flounder, or not?
[Sunday, July 9, 2023] [8:11:12 PM EDT] <CambersGhost> [discord] <Jerusha2> hi everyone!
[Sunday, July 9, 2023] [8:11:20 PM EDT] <CambersGhost> [discord] <azdesertrose> Hi Jerusha
[Sunday, July 9, 2023] [8:11:24 PM EDT] <CambersGhost> [discord] <laurnarose> Hello Jerusha
[Sunday, July 9, 2023] [8:11:26 PM EDT] <The_Bee> Hi Jerusha
[Sunday, July 9, 2023] [8:11:26 PM EDT] <CambersGhost> [discord] <shiral_> Hi Jerusha
[Sunday, July 9, 2023] [8:11:32 PM EDT] <CambersGhost> [discord] <Evie the Verbose> My son will be super glad if his Dad doesn't turn up in his birthday suit, especially since we'll be picking up pizza on the way over!
[Sunday, July 9, 2023] [8:11:38 PM EDT] <CambersGhost> [discord] <shiral_> LOL
[Sunday, July 9, 2023] [8:11:45 PM EDT] <bynw> hi Jerusha
[Sunday, July 9, 2023] [8:11:46 PM EDT] <CambersGhost> [discord] <laurnarose> LOl
[Sunday, July 9, 2023] [8:11:50 PM EDT] <CambersGhost> [discord] <shiral_> Only do that if the pizza place has a drive-through
[Sunday, July 9, 2023] [8:11:52 PM EDT] <CambersGhost> [discord] <Jerusha2> Sorry to be late: DS1 and GS2 are visiting for the weekend
[Sunday, July 9, 2023] [8:11:53 PM EDT] <CambersGhost> [discord] <laurnarose> Enjoy the Pizza
[Sunday, July 9, 2023] [8:12:01 PM EDT] <CambersGhost> [discord] <laurnarose> Nice
[Sunday, July 9, 2023] [8:12:05 PM EDT] <CambersGhost> [discord] <TM> Huh, "[Tile fish] have a mild, sweet flavor and a firm, flaky texture similar to crab or lobster."
[Sunday, July 9, 2023] [8:12:06 PM EDT] <CambersGhost> [discord] <azdesertrose> "Dad, I like to see you but not quite that much of you!"
[Sunday, July 9, 2023] [8:12:14 PM EDT] <CambersGhost> [discord] <stnezz> I've had family all week, I understand
[Sunday, July 9, 2023] [8:12:14 PM EDT] <KK> It's different from tilapia. Very mild, nice bite to it, like scallops. I'd have it again.
[Sunday, July 9, 2023] [8:12:37 PM EDT] <CambersGhost> [discord] <shiral_> So did you have an enjoyable conversation over lunch?
[Sunday, July 9, 2023] [8:13:04 PM EDT] <KK> And it had a yummy sauce with a little wine and butter, and almond flakes on top.
[Sunday, July 9, 2023] [8:13:21 PM EDT] <The_Bee> scallops wrapped in bacon YUM!
[Sunday, July 9, 2023] [8:13:26 PM EDT] <CambersGhost> [discord] <Evie the Verbose> The attractions of seafood are entirely lost on me, sadly. I would love to be able to enjoy it, because of the health benefits, but every single aquatic-origin food I have tried just tastes like licking an unfiltered fish bowl as far as my taste buds are concerned.
[Sunday, July 9, 2023] [8:13:42 PM EDT] <CambersGhost> [discord] <azdesertrose> Sauce sounds great, but I am not a seafood fan.
[Sunday, July 9, 2023] [8:14:03 PM EDT] <KK> Yes, good conversation. He's read all the books, many of them several times.
[Sunday, July 9, 2023] [8:14:15 PM EDT] <CambersGhost> [discord] <Evie the Verbose> Yeah, that sauce sounds like it would work really well on chicken too.
[Sunday, July 9, 2023] [8:14:20 PM EDT] * CambersGhost [discord] <Jerusha2> tries to imagine what an unfiltered fish bowl tastes like
[Sunday, July 9, 2023] [8:14:25 PM EDT] <bynw> I'm with you Evie and DR. Seafood is just not appetizing
[Sunday, July 9, 2023] [8:14:42 PM EDT] <CambersGhost> [discord] <TM> The Deryni books could probably have used more eels.
[Sunday, July 9, 2023] [8:14:44 PM EDT] <CambersGhost> [discord] <shiral_> That leaves more for people like me!
[Sunday, July 9, 2023] [8:15:07 PM EDT] * The_Bee thinks bluefish, salmon and swordfish are the reasons God mad oceans and rivers.
[Sunday, July 9, 2023] [8:15:09 PM EDT] <CambersGhost> [discord] <Jerusha2> I would normally perfer fish to steak
[Sunday, July 9, 2023] [8:15:13 PM EDT] <CambersGhost> [discord] <Evie the Verbose> Algae, fish poop, and a protesting goldfish wondering why the weird hooman is licking it.
[Sunday, July 9, 2023] [8:15:28 PM EDT] <CambersGhost> [discord] <Evie the Verbose> That was meant to be a reply to Jerusha. 😄
[Sunday, July 9, 2023] [8:15:42 PM EDT] <CambersGhost> [discord] <shiral_> I do kind of wonder how you would eat a lobster, if you only had a dagger to eat with at the table...
[Sunday, July 9, 2023] [8:15:47 PM EDT] <CambersGhost> [discord] <Jerusha2> Maybe I'll have a carrot instead
[Sunday, July 9, 2023] [8:15:48 PM EDT] <KK> I've never eaten eel, so it hadn't occurred to me to put them on the menu at the Haldane Court.
[Sunday, July 9, 2023] [8:16:01 PM EDT] <CambersGhost> [discord] <Evie the Verbose> Fingers exist, Shiral.
[Sunday, July 9, 2023] [8:16:08 PM EDT] <CambersGhost> [discord] <TM> Quite the common and also luxury food, eels, I believe.
[Sunday, July 9, 2023] [8:16:21 PM EDT] <CambersGhost> [discord] <shiral_> I've had eel at sushi restaurants
[Sunday, July 9, 2023] [8:16:25 PM EDT] <CambersGhost> [discord] <Jerusha2> That kind of luxury I can live without
[Sunday, July 9, 2023] [8:16:40 PM EDT] <CambersGhost> [discord] <TM> Henry I of England reportedly died of a "surfeit of lampreys", which are kind of eel like.
[Sunday, July 9, 2023] [8:16:45 PM EDT] <CambersGhost> [discord] <Evie the Verbose> I put jellied eel in one of my stories. Granted, it was a dish that the narrator didn't particularly care for. But it was there. 😄
[Sunday, July 9, 2023] [8:16:49 PM EDT] <CambersGhost> [discord] <shiral_> Well yes, but if you have a lobster in the shell it's still pretty hard to get at the good parts
[Sunday, July 9, 2023] [8:17:03 PM EDT] <KK> The first person to eat a lobster, and without butter, must have been very hungry.
[Sunday, July 9, 2023] [8:17:25 PM EDT] <The_Bee> Weren't lobsters once considered common people's food?
[Sunday, July 9, 2023] [8:17:29 PM EDT] <CambersGhost> [discord] <azdesertrose> You and your dinner partner put your belt knives together.
[Sunday, July 9, 2023] [8:17:38 PM EDT] <CambersGhost> [discord] <shiral_> "Here I have my lobster but there won't be any drawn butter or lemon juice for seven centuries!"
[Sunday, July 9, 2023] [8:17:52 PM EDT] <CambersGhost> [discord] <Evie the Verbose> I would have to be starving to eat a lobster, though admittedly that's because I have a soft spot for crustaceans, ever since having three hermit crabs a decade or so back.
[Sunday, July 9, 2023] [8:18:11 PM EDT] <CambersGhost> [discord] <Jerusha2> The lobster scurries away; "I'll wait"
[Sunday, July 9, 2023] [8:18:27 PM EDT] <CambersGhost> [discord] <shiral_> In early America I think so, Bee.
[Sunday, July 9, 2023] [8:18:30 PM EDT] <The_Bee> Lobsters taste good, but i turn them around so I don't have my dinner looking at me.
[Sunday, July 9, 2023] [8:18:37 PM EDT] <KK> Still, they look like giant bugs...
[Sunday, July 9, 2023] [8:18:51 PM EDT] <CambersGhost> [discord] <Evie the Verbose> They're fascinating little aliens
[Sunday, July 9, 2023] [8:19:06 PM EDT] <CambersGhost> [discord] <Evie the Verbose> I also love octopuses, though not on my plate.
[Sunday, July 9, 2023] [8:19:09 PM EDT] <CambersGhost> [discord] <shiral_> I enjoy lobster, but I can't eat too much as I find them very rich. But I love Dungeness crab
[Sunday, July 9, 2023] [8:19:14 PM EDT] <CambersGhost> [discord] <TM> There's a guy with videos about Leon, a lobster he bought from a grocery store and set up a tank for.
[Sunday, July 9, 2023] [8:19:31 PM EDT] <CambersGhost> [discord] <Evie the Verbose> Octopus intelligence is frighteningly high. At least Gigi-level of puzzle solving.
[Sunday, July 9, 2023] [8:19:36 PM EDT] <CambersGhost> [discord] <TM> There's a guy with videos about Leon, a lobster he bought from a grocery store and set up a tank for. One molt took care of the deformed claws.
[Sunday, July 9, 2023] [8:19:45 PM EDT] <CambersGhost> [discord] <shiral_> Yes, that's why I don't eat octopus
[Sunday, July 9, 2023] [8:19:52 PM EDT] <CambersGhost> [discord] <Evie the Verbose> YES, I love Leon!
[Sunday, July 9, 2023] [8:19:53 PM EDT] <CambersGhost> [discord] <shiral_> But I will eat calamari
[Sunday, July 9, 2023] [8:19:57 PM EDT] <CambersGhost> [discord] <azdesertrose> Carys says hi
[Sunday, July 9, 2023] [8:20:05 PM EDT] <CambersGhost> [discord] <Jerusha2> Hi Carys
[Sunday, July 9, 2023] [8:20:09 PM EDT] <KK> Same with shrimp; smaller bugs. And many places, they serve them with all the legs and heads and antennae--yuck.
[Sunday, July 9, 2023] [8:20:14 PM EDT] <CambersGhost> [discord] <shiral_> Dmitri sends a purr in greeting to Carys
[Sunday, July 9, 2023] [8:20:23 PM EDT] <CambersGhost> [discord] <Evie the Verbose> I tried calamari. I think that's the only seafood that didn't taste of algae and despair to me. It just tasted like battered and deep fried rubber bands.
[Sunday, July 9, 2023] [8:20:29 PM EDT] <CambersGhost> [discord] <TM> A North Carolina Aquarium had an octopus. They gave it enrichment activies, like ripping apart an assembles Mr. Potato Head ... and now back to potatoes.
[Sunday, July 9, 2023] [8:20:31 PM EDT] <CambersGhost> [discord] <Jerusha2> I prefer my shrimp pruned
[Sunday, July 9, 2023] [8:20:36 PM EDT] <The_Bee> I've had conch twice, liked it once.
[Sunday, July 9, 2023] [8:20:53 PM EDT] <CambersGhost> [discord] <TM> A North Carolina Aquarium had an octopus. They gave it enrichment activities like a mammal, like ripping apart an assembles Mr. Potato Head ... and now back to potatoes.
[Sunday, July 9, 2023] [8:21:00 PM EDT] <CambersGhost> [discord] <TM> A North Carolina Aquarium had an octopus. They gave it enrichment activities like a mammal, like ripping apart an assembled Mr. Potato Head ... and now back to potatoes.
[Sunday, July 9, 2023] [8:21:16 PM EDT] <CambersGhost> [discord] <Evie the Verbose> I was just debating whether to keep or donate my Darth Tater Mr. Potato Head
[Sunday, July 9, 2023] [8:21:38 PM EDT] <CambersGhost> [discord] <laurnarose> lol really? Darth Tater?
[Sunday, July 9, 2023] [8:21:40 PM EDT] <CambersGhost> [discord] <Evie the Verbose> Oops, I hear the emergence of my DH, so I'd better get my shoes on and get ready to head out. Catch y'all next week!
[Sunday, July 9, 2023] [8:21:51 PM EDT] <CambersGhost> [discord] <Evie the Verbose> Yes, Laurna--it's dressed like Vader. It's cute!
[Sunday, July 9, 2023] [8:21:53 PM EDT] <CambersGhost> [discord] <laurnarose> Good night Evie
[Sunday, July 9, 2023] [8:21:57 PM EDT] <CambersGhost> [discord] <Evie the Verbose> Bye, y'all!
[Sunday, July 9, 2023] [8:21:58 PM EDT] <CambersGhost> [discord] <laurnarose> lol
[Sunday, July 9, 2023] [8:21:59 PM EDT] <CambersGhost> [discord] <Jerusha2> Nighters, Evie
[Sunday, July 9, 2023] [8:22:04 PM EDT] <KK> I like watching zoo videos, where the keepers invent better ways to give enrichment to their charges.
[Sunday, July 9, 2023] [8:22:07 PM EDT] <The_Bee> bye, Evie! Enjoy the pizza.
[Sunday, July 9, 2023] [8:22:08 PM EDT] <CambersGhost> [discord] <stnezz> Cya ev
[Sunday, July 9, 2023] [8:22:21 PM EDT] <CambersGhost> [discord] <azdesertrose> Night Evie
[Sunday, July 9, 2023] [8:22:38 PM EDT] <KK> Nighters, Evie.
[Sunday, July 9, 2023] [8:23:01 PM EDT] <CambersGhost> [discord] <laurnarose> Mom made the best Conch fritters when we lived on the boat
[Sunday, July 9, 2023] [8:23:09 PM EDT] <CambersGhost> [discord] <TM> Oh, those videos sound great! I'll have to look for them. Thanks for the idea!
[Sunday, July 9, 2023] [8:23:46 PM EDT] <The_Bee> I think conch fritters were the dish I liked.
[Sunday, July 9, 2023] [8:24:00 PM EDT] <KK> Vet shows are also fascinating. The Incredible Dr. Pol, Alaska Vet, there are several.
[Sunday, July 9, 2023] [8:24:13 PM EDT] <CambersGhost> [discord] <shiral_> Night, Evie
[Sunday, July 9, 2023] [8:24:57 PM EDT] <CambersGhost> [discord] <stnezz> I liked Alaska vet
[Sunday, July 9, 2023] [8:25:19 PM EDT] <CambersGhost> [discord] <laurnarose> We would go swimming and bring back fresh conch and lobster (Carriabian) and then pound the heck out of the conch meat, slice them up thin and them mom with fry them in corn batter
[Sunday, July 9, 2023] [8:25:43 PM EDT] <CambersGhost> [discord] <shiral_> My sister has a show about zoos and the close relationship the zoo staff establishes with the animals they care for. But I can't remember what the show was called
[Sunday, July 9, 2023] [8:26:11 PM EDT] <KK> I think it's about time for me to also flee. I doubt Ill eat again for several days, after my huge and delicious lunch, but Daphne is regarding me wistfully, no doubt dreaming of Fancy Feast.
[Sunday, July 9, 2023] [8:26:35 PM EDT] <CambersGhost> [discord] <laurnarose> Feed the kitty
[Sunday, July 9, 2023] [8:26:38 PM EDT] <CambersGhost> [discord] <Jerusha2> Or maybe conch fritters
[Sunday, July 9, 2023] [8:26:40 PM EDT] <CambersGhost> [discord] <shiral_> Probably. I've never heard of a cat who didn't have fond thoughts about supper
[Sunday, July 9, 2023] [8:26:52 PM EDT] <The_Bee> Mama's coming, Daphne! Be patient.
[Sunday, July 9, 2023] [8:27:13 PM EDT] <CambersGhost> [discord] <shiral_> Have a good week, KK, and always drink clean water!
[Sunday, July 9, 2023] [8:27:22 PM EDT] <CambersGhost> [discord] <shiral_> appropos of our earlier discussion
[Sunday, July 9, 2023] [8:27:29 PM EDT] <CambersGhost> [discord] <stnezz> Night kk
[Sunday, July 9, 2023] [8:27:32 PM EDT] <CambersGhost> [discord] <Jerusha2> Have a good week, KK, and pass on the fish bowl
[Sunday, July 9, 2023] [8:27:37 PM EDT] <CambersGhost> [discord] <TM> Or drink mead and ale, you do you.
[Sunday, July 9, 2023] [8:27:40 PM EDT] <The_Bee> Thanks for coming, KK. Good week to upu
[Sunday, July 9, 2023] [8:27:42 PM EDT] <CambersGhost> [discord] <laurnarose> Good night KK
[Sunday, July 9, 2023] [8:27:46 PM EDT] <KK> In that regard, Daphne is very like her fellow felines. So I'm off.
[Sunday, July 9, 2023] [8:27:53 PM EDT] <CambersGhost> [discord] <shiral_> Thanks for stopping in, KK
[Sunday, July 9, 2023] [8:28:11 PM EDT] <CambersGhost> [discord] <stnezz> Feed the kitty conch fritters
[Sunday, July 9, 2023] [8:28:15 PM EDT] * KK steps onto her Portal, waves good night, and disappears in a shower of green sparkles.
[Sunday, July 9, 2023] [8:28:28 PM EDT] Quit KK has left this server (Quit: Client closed).