Heraldry

[DoctorM]

Long ago, there was an issue of Deryni Archives that had the correct heraldic descriptions for the coats of arms of the major Eleven Kingdoms houses. I'm afraid that my old paper copies of the Archives have vanished in the course of lots of moves. So...does any kind person out there over the aether know the correct heraldic language for the Tolan and Marluk arms? Many thanks!

[Laurna]

Deryni Archives vol 2. page 6

"Duchy of Tolan (Charissa of Festil):
Ermine, two lion's jambes Gules,
clawed Or, in chief dancetty Gules,
a jewelled coronet, or. "

"The arms of Talon are exceedingly ancient, although fairly complicated, and represent the entire far north area of the great Torenthi plain. A Deryni mage named Tolan was one of the ancestors of the first Festil who deposed King Ifor Haldane. the Festillic arms, as used by Imre et al., are of an originally cadet branch of the Tolan line, though by the time of St. Camber, there is no doubt that the Festillic line was the more powerful."

There is a drawing of this shield on the cover. If you need it I can scan it in the morning.
I do not see a listing for the Marluk in this issue.

There is the Duchy of Arjenol (Lionel): "Per pale, Or and Argent, three crescents counterchanged. "

[drakensis]

I don't see anything in the Codex about Marluk coat of arms.

Although I did find, to my surprise, that Charissa had two elder half-brothers (Zimarek Count of Tarkhan and Mikael Count of Sankt-Irakli) and two elder half-sisters by her father's first (and later annulled) marriage. The four of them were legitimised without succession rights, and both brothers and one sister were presumably alive by 1130 since only one is noted as deceased. Potential supporters for Charissa's cause if anyone needs them.

[DoctorM]

Laurna--- thank you very much for the heraldry info! That's very much appreciated!

[DoctorM]

Hmmm... any idea where Tarkhan and Sankt-Irakli are?

I don't see anything in the Codex about Marluk coat of arms.

Although I did find, to my surprise, that Charissa had two elder half-brothers (Zimarek Count of Tarkhan and Mikael Count of Sankt-Irakli) and two elder half-sisters by her father's first (and later annulled) marriage. The four of them were legitimised without succession rights, and both brothers and one sister were presumably alive by 1130 since only one is noted as deceased. Potential supporters for Charissa's cause if anyone needs them.

[Laurna]

On the very last page of the Codex the map names  Sankt-Poltan in the upper right of the page. I presume that Sankt would be the Eastern spelling for Saint. Therefore I will surmise that Sankt-Irakli would be some where in the northern portion of the far eastern part of the eleven Kingdoms.

[DoctorM]

Cool. Works for me!

Thanks!

On the very last page of the Codex the map names  Sankt-Poltan in the upper right of the page. I presume that Sankt would be the Eastern spelling for Saint. Therefore I will surmise that Sankt-Irakli would be some where in the northern portion of the far eastern part of the eleven Kingdoms.

[DoctorM]

It just struck me that there's a Sankt Polten in Austria--- I think I've been there!

On the very last page of the Codex the map names  Sankt-Poltan in the upper right of the page. I presume that Sankt would be the Eastern spelling for Saint. Therefore I will surmise that Sankt-Irakli would be some where in the northern portion of the far eastern part of the eleven Kingdoms.

[DoctorM]

I'm remembering the arms of R'Kassi as centered on a winged horse, a Pegasus. I remember years and years ago reading that R'Kassi down in the deserts had a culture much like the Vandals in North Africa, originally "Germanic" but migrating to create a desert kingdom. I'd always had Christian de Falkenberg in my AU stories say that the family name was once R'Kassan, and that they'd never changed it to something like Montfaucon even after coming to Gwynedd. I'm seeing things from the Codex now that say that the culture in R'Kassi was always closer to Moorish. Hmmmm... any thoughts from anyone  out there over the aether?

[revanne]

Here's a thought: In our world the Vandals came under the influence of Christianity but there is nothing to say that in the Deryniverse they could not have been influenced by Islam. Still of "Germanic" stock but Moorish in culture. There is something of a real world parallel in Bosnia where the population is ethnically European but have been Muslim for over 4 centuries. I found it a helpful jolt to my own prejudices to watch a programme about Bosnia (actually a fascinating one about how the library in Sarajevo was saved during the siege ofthe mid 1990s, but I digress).

[DoctorM]

Excellent thought, Revanne!

[Laurna]

This is my personal take on R'Kassi .

I always thought of the R'Kassan Stallion as an Andalusian which is a pure Spanish horse and/or a Lusitano which is a Portuguese horse.  Andalusian's and Lusitanos are fighting war horses that can be smartly trained and are very flashy in their looks. The horse of kings.  In contrast the Arabian horses of the desert are smaller and faster but they would not be the strong warhorses that we see Alaric and King Brion riding. As much as I would like to think of R'kassan as being a Friesian horse, I know that back then, the Friesain was merely a cart/carriage horse. Our Deryni stories are not yet wearing plate mail armor, therefore they do not need to heavy Germanic horses to hold them up in battle. Our characters are just wearing chain mail, thus the Andalusian is the perfect mix of strength, agility, and intelligence.

(Personal note, Lendour is per Germanic. So if they were breeding the R'kassan (Andalusian) with the stout Germanic mountain breeds, Lendour just might easily get the Friesian like horse that I like to think my beloved Washburn rides, at least in my fan-ficitional point of view. LOL but I digress.)

This description of the horse type in the novels, and knowing that R'Kassan is Muslim with Moorish culture, this leads me to think of the Moorish background of R'Kassan as that of the Moors who came to Spain.  Just west of R'kassi is the kingdom of Andelon, which is where Richenda and Sofiana(CC member) are from, I think of this kingdom as old Spain and Nur Hullay, where Rothana is from, I consider more Portuguese.

What is interesting to note from the codex, is while it seems that the kingdoms: Andelon, Nur hallay, Thuria, Vezaire, Joux, and Tralia, appear to have generations of Deryni in their royal blood lines. The nomadic people of the Kingdom of R'Kassi were thought to have been human until the time of Gywnedd's Harrowing 918, and the Deryni from Camber's time escaping south into the desert changed that. This is when the old R'Kassian family of the house of Rhupen comes to an end and  someone marries a surviving daughter forming the House of Al -Muttalib. Al-Muttalib are Deryni.

I do not know if my thoughts align with KK's original ideas of R'Kassi, but this is how I think of it.

[DoctorM]

Laurna--- I've always used Portuguese to stand in for whatever is spoken in the Forcinn, with Bremagne using French with a touch of Breton. I think I want to write something set in Autun or Andelon. I'm always fascinated by steppe and Eastern cultures, but I like the idea of high desert cultures as well. And I'm a major fan of Portugal.

Arabians are beautiful horses and a delight to ride, though they are skittish and I am a bit large for many of them. My horseback days were mostly on large-ish thoroughbreds--- a breed I've always gotten along with. I've never been on an Andalusian, though I'd like to try.

[Laurna]

Comparisons to our Earth's middle ages and the eleven kingdom's middle ages is an interesting puzzle.
Is the Southern sea, like the Mediterranean or is it like the English channel?  or is it nothing like either at all.
For a while I had wondered if Tralia was Greek or more Italian?   In the codex, the Byzantyun Empire controlled most of the coast lines of the Southern Sea. 5th Century AD the Byzantyun Empire began to disintegrate. Gwynedd was first abandoned and local chieftains declared independence in 408 (this is just the province area of Haldane and the beginning of the Haldane reign). Bremagne became its own Kingdom around 555. I agree that I think of Bremagne has french influence. Then rapidly each small province going eastward along the coast gained a semblance of independence from Byzantyun. Mooryn(Corwyn and Carthmoore) became a strong Deryni kingdom from around 486, only to be broken apart in 826 when a Festil married the king of Mooryn's only surviving daughter. In the year 500, at the mouth of the twin rivers, a Ruman trader named Horatius named himself Orsalis and thus began the Horts of Orsal.  The Forcinn Buffer States are "nominally under the lordshop of the Hort of Orsal" Thus I think of the principalities on the southern sea coast line as a mix of Italian city states. Somehow, as these Forcinn Buffer States boarder onto the deserts in the south/east, they mix in the Spanish and Portuguese with Moorish influence. The anvil of the lord is a sort of Egyptian influence. Beldour seems Turkish to me. East of Tralia being more Middle eastern.  Other people may have a completely different interpretation.

It does make one wonder just how much of the whole planet that the eleven kingdom's covers. Being that this is before the great explorations, I suspect that the eleven kingdoms is a much smaller region than we tend to think of when looking at our map of Europe.

*******
As for horses, I have never ridden an Andalusian, either.  I do own three Friesian Sport-horses(Friesian /Thoroughbred crossbreeds) I love them, they are amazing animals. I know the modern Friesian was a mix of an old Dutch riding/working horse that was crossed with  Andalusian's around the 14-1600's. So I still believe the R'Kassi Stallion is equivalent to an Andalusian. And warm-blood horses would come to the Gywnedd when people start breeding their R'Kassi elite stallions  to the local horses of Gywenedd.  We might even see some warm blood type horses in Kelson's time.

DoctorM, do please continue to write for us. I would love more stories about the lands around the Southern Sea. I would love to hear your take on this subject.

[DoctorM]

Laurna---

I think I've always thought of the Eleven Kingdoms as filling up the space of Western Europe, with the Southern Sea standing in for both the Channel and the Mediterranean. Byzantyun seems like something ghostly out east-of-east, though I've always thought that riding east out of Torenth would be like crossing into the Russian steppe and Central Asia. I always saw Fianna and the Forcinn as looking a bit Mediterranean compared to Gwynedd--- city states and wine country.  Aurelian of course comes from a city on canals...though that may be in Autun.

The ruling family in Orsal country is the house of Horthy, which makes me grin, since I immediately think of Admiral Miklos Horthy, the regent of Hungary between the two world wars.  He'd been the last commander of the Habsburg Monarchy's fleet in WW1, and he ended up as "an admiral without a fleet in a kingdom without a king".

I like the idea of writing more set in the southern states. After all, Christian and Aurelian have those life peerages in southern Bremagne, and I expect Christian's wife would like to see those upgraded to hereditary status...if only to show that she can influence Bremagne, which is a Haldane ally. And Christian has spent at least some time in the Moorish lands.

Best horseback memory--- once I took a horseback winery tour in Hungary. Vineyard to vineyard in the saddle. Fortunately, the horses knew the way. Very well-trained horses.

I will be sitting down soon to do a new story. I'm definitely going to make time for that. And...thank you for the encouragement. Merci!