Transfer portal question

[Doughal]

While I'm being inquisitive, I've got another question.  It's been ages since I last read/re-read the books, but I seem to recall an instance of a portable transfer portal at one point.  I think someone was on campaign and they had a rug or something in their tent which functioned as a portal.  Am I remembering that wrong, or was that a real thing?

[Laurna]

A portable rug transfer portal?  Now, that would be cute.    Nope Sorry, Doughal, that one was not quite right.  It took about 8-10 people, half of them Deryni, to construct the portal in the tent at the front lines of the battle.  And then they forgot to trap it, which then caused all sorts of problems for them the next day.  That is the last book in the first series, High Deryni.  Well worth a reread through when you have the time.

[Elkhound]

There was also a portal that moved, in Grecotha on the Queen's Tower.  It was always somewhere on the top of the tower, but it moved around different places.

[Evie]

Doughal, what you may be remembering is that someone (Arilan himself?) had to remove the rug to uncover the bare earth so that Denis Arilan could create the Transfer Portal.

[Doughal]

Evie, I think you are right, I must be remembering them moving the rug to create the portal.  It's probably been 15 years since my last re-read, memory is a bit fuzzy.  I'll go back and do that again soon I think.  Appreciate the responses.

I know that Earth was a part in transfer portals, there had to be some connection, but then I know there were portals like the ones that Elkhound mentioned inside towers which obviously had no direct connection to the ground.  I think I read in one of the other threads about portals here on the site that earth had to be included under the stone.  If that's the case then what would stop someone from creating a movable portal?  Put some earth inside a stone box, and cover it with a stone.  Sure it would weigh a literal ton, but on board a ship the weight wouldn't be that big of a deal and it would provide instant access to other places as well as an escape route should there be a massive storm that threatens the ship.  Or stick one in a big wagon pulled by a team of horses and you've got a mobile command post for a military campaign, one that could move as the campaign moves.  No need to create brand new portals in the middle of nowhere that will just be abandoned afterwards.  Just a thought.  In most cases it wouldn't be practical, or worth the effort to create one and move it around, but for certain things, I could see it being done.  I'm just wondering if it's possible.

[Evie]

That's an interesting question!  Maybe that's one that can be referred to KK on Sunday, if you are available during chat time.  This upcoming Sunday is Early Chat, since it's the first Sunday of the month, so it will be at 5:00 pm US Eastern Time (whatever that is where you are), but on other Sundays it's at 7:00 pm US Eastern Time.

[Doughal]

I'll see if I can make it and ask that question.  If not then perhaps someone else here could ask for me.  Sunday's are difficult, the family is usually out to dinner or at the later time getting the toddlers ready for bed.

[Aerlys]

I've had the idea of a portable portal for quite some time. I'd love to hear what KK has to say. Unfortunately, this will be yet another Sunday that I won't be home early enough to make chat.

That reminds me. DH recently bought a portable band saw. Our 9 y/o excitedly cried, "Oh! So it has a portal in it!"

[Doughal]

Found my Codex last night and looked at the entry on portals.  All it said was that the portal had to be in earth or stone, and we know that stone works on upper floors of towers, so I don't see any reason stone wouldn't work in a portable form.  I imagine it would need to be fairly substantial, enough so that people appearing out of thin air on top of it wouldn't crack it.  For that matter, I wonder what would happen if you dismantled a tower that had a portal stone in it and moved that stone somewhere else?  I suspect it would still work.

TBH, I think we are delving into this perhaps a bit deeper than KK had considered it back when she was writing those early books. 

[Laurna]

The trouble might pop up with the signature of the portal.  I believe that each portals unique signature is a mixture of three elements: the combined minds that set it, the physical location and stone work or ground that surround it.  If you move the stone you may keep two of those elements but you will loss the physical location element. Therefore your signature will change. You may be able to portal out, but move it ten feet while you are gone and you will not be able to portal back.
Just my take on it. 

[Evie]

The trouble might pop up with the signature of the portal.  I believe that each portals unique signature is a mixture of three elements: the combined minds that set it, the physical location and stone work or ground that surround it.  If you move the stone you may keep two of those elements but you will loss the physical location element. Therefore your signature will change. You may be able to portal out, but move it ten feet while you are gone and you will not be able to portal back.
Just my take on it. 

OK, but in that case how would the Portal at the top of the tower in Grecotha have worked, since it moved from location to location atop that tower, and presumably some of those locations could have been more than ten feet apart?  (Or else there'd be little point in having a moving Portal, I would think, if all the possible locations for it were within a tight cluster.)  Or in that case, are you positing that the physical location element could be set to "any surface that falls within X feet of this central spot" or "either location W, X, Y, or Z contained in this wider area" rather to a specific location X?

[revanne]

Although as far as I remember it's only Camber who is really conversant with the portal in question at Grecotha and Camber seems to have access to knowledge otherwise lost (and some that was probably very wisely lost).

[NavaWazr]

I want to spend a month in Grecotha exploring. I'll start saving my pennies towards a package (hotel, meals, portal and luggage transfers). Please let me know if you hear of upcoming tours. Thanks.
</wish>

[revanne]

If you find a working portal to get to Grecotha you are likely to be trampled in the rush 

[Doughal]

I had the chance to ask KK in chat this evening about portable portals...

Edited out the extraneous conversation:

Nov 01 17:26:56 <Doughal>   I was curious about portals and whether it was possible to make a portable one.  The Codex just says that it has to be in earth or stone, and since we know that some portals are in stone up in towers away from the ground, I wondered if it is possible to put one in a big stone that could be transported in a ship or large wagon?

Nov 01 17:28:15 <KK>   Wow, hadn't thought about that possibility, Doughal.  I should think it would take a lot of power to maintain it.
Nov 01 17:31:00 <KK>   Portals take far more power to create than Wards, even Moving Wards.  Theoretically, I suppose it might have been possible, at least while Deryni learning was at its peak.
Nov 01 17:34:28 <KK>   Then again, it might be in that dubious category of things like Lewys ap Norfal and his ilk might have tried, or the two Torenthi princes who died/went mad.

There you go, it's not impossible.  It would just take a ton of energy and might go very very wrong. 

Drakensis, in the chat, also referenced movable wards and how they take a lot of energy.  Can someone point me toward where that happened in the books so I can check it out and get an idea of how much energy we are talking about?

Nov 01 17:28:42 <drakensis>   we saw how hard it was to maintain a ward while it was being moved