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The Quest for S.Camber

Started by morgan, February 16, 2008, 08:19:02 AM

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Elkhound

Braniana:

"About the fostering, could have been a good idea, but would it have been one they'd have seriously considered?  After all, Conall was a ducal heir, a prince who could be expected to become a royal advisor like his father.  And Nigel was certainly considered one of the best men to learn from in the 11 Kingdoms, so why send his own son away to learn from someone else?  As a thought, did Nigel spend less time than he should have with Conall?  And another: would Conall's jealousy have become what it did if his Uncle Brion had lived longer?  If Kelson had been older when he inherited?  I guess it couldn't have been easy to be a technical adult (like Kelson), but to not be listened to or have his opinions valued (unlike Kelson)."

Why would Nigel consider sending his son away to learn from someone else?  Possibly because as a father he might have too close to be objective about Connall's needs, much as a doctor shouldn't treat members of his own family. 

If he had been sent to a foreign court, Connall would have been one noble page among many, rather than the Grand Duke's Heir and King's Cousin.

Another thing that might have made Conall less vulnerable to the temptations to which he succumbed would have been if Kelson had siblings.  Do we know why Biron and Jehanna never had any other children after Kelson?  Did Jehanna have such a difficult confinement that she didn't want to go through it again?  Was she damaged in some way by the birthing that she couldn't even if she had wanted to?  Or was it just the way things worked out?

derynifanatic64

Jehana did have a daughter a couple of years after Kelson, according to the Codex, but the child died after only a few days.  When Jehana married Barrett de Laney after "King Kelson's Bride", she gave birth to a daughter--according to her Codex entry.  After her 1st girl died, she and Brion probably stopped trying. 
We will never forget the events of 9-11!!  USA!! USA!!

Braniana

Good point about the potential for things having been different if Kelson hadn't been an only child.  If Conall hadn't been 2nd-3rd in line for most of his life, the throne might not have seemed to be so temptingly close.

QuoteWhy would Nigel consider sending his son away to learn from someone else?  Possibly because as a father he might have too close to be objective about Connall's needs, much as a doctor shouldn't treat members of his own family. 
If he had been sent to a foreign court, Connall would have been one noble page among many, rather than the Grand Duke's Heir and King's Cousin.

Don't think Conall would have appreciated being 'just another squire', at least at the beginning.  I'm reminded of Melanie Rawn's Dragon books.  Fostering was an important part of that society, and one character had some superficial resemblances to Conall: an only son and royal heir, also a spoiled brat.  He tried to lord his rank over another squire, got a drubbing, but eventually learned where his worth really came from, and ended up a good person as an adult.  Perhaps the same thing would have happened to Conall.
I can see another reason why the family might have been reluctant to consider fostering Conall out of the country.  If one looks at the genealogies, lots of the royal children died young.  In the immediate family, Nigel and Brion saw their other two brothers die young in tragic accidents.  With Brion only having one son of his own, maybe they decided it was best to keep Conall at home, so he could grow up learning the ideals of Haldane kingship, just in case.

morgan

Well, it seems that the Haldane family is more bigger than what I know! I haven't read about the other 2 brothers of Brion and Nigel!
I can't wait the Codex arrives, so I can..update!

derynifanatic64

Quote from: morgan on March 08, 2008, 08:49:44 AM
Well, it seems that the Haldane family is more bigger than what I know! I haven't read about the other 2 brothers of Brion and Nigel!
I can't wait the Codex arrives, so I can..update!
Brion and Nigel also had a sister named Xenia who died in childbirth.
We will never forget the events of 9-11!!  USA!! USA!!

Braniana

The two other brothers were Blaine and Jathan.  Brion was firstborn, Blaine second, Nigel third, and Jathan fourth.  Blaine died aged 10 and Jathan aged 4.
There was also a second sister, Silke, who became a nun.  Xenia was born between Blaine and Nigel, and Silke between Nigel and Jathan.

Elkhound

Quote from: Braniana on March 07, 2008, 10:36:02 PMDon't think Conall would have appreciated being 'just another squire', at least at the beginning.  I'm reminded of Melanie Rawn's Dragon books.  Fostering was an important part of that society, and one character had some superficial resemblances to Conall: an only son and royal heir, also a spoiled brat.  He tried to lord his rank over another squire, got a drubbing, but eventually learned where his worth really came from, and ended up a good person as an adult.  Perhaps the same thing would have happened to Conall.

Exactly.  I can't see the Hort of Orsal putting up with that kind of nonsense, for example. 

Of course, as I said above, it wouldn't have been nearly so interesting a story that way.

Shiral

I wouldn't think that Nigel would put up with much nonsense as a parent, either.  He would give his sons the same sort of  tough-love royal discipline he would have experienced in his own childhood.  Rory and Payne seem to have turned out all right. I think it was Conall's own personality that was the problem. Royal parents don't always have a lot of time for hands-on fathering, and since Nigel was responsible for training the future pages, squires, and knights of the Royal Household, Conall had to share him from early on, and may have felt cheated of his father's proper attention.

Growing up as Kelson's cousin can't have been easy, given that Kelson was a good student at both military and academic pursuits early on. I'm sure there must have been a lot of competition between the cousins as they grew up and studied together. But no matter how well Conall did at anything, the whole Court would have put Kelson first, because of his rank.  Conall probably heard the old complaint "Why can't you be more like__" often enough to make him resent Kelson even more.  When Kelson became King at fourteen, we know that Nigel was always there to support him in his Kingship, and having to share Nigel's attention with his cousin even more would have made Conall resent him even more. 

Why Kelson and Conall weren't closer friends from boyhood may have simply owed to their respective personalities, even if Conall had not been a jealous jerk.  Kelson seems to get on perfectly well with Rory and Payne. He enjoys reading, Conall has little interest in it unless it's about military strategy. Kelson is very mindful of the succession, and his kingship left him little time to get into much trouble, anyway. He wasn't all that interested in sex for its own sake--he wanted to care about and have something in common with any woman he got involved with, sexually. He was  genuinely interested in building a good relationship with Sidana and with Araxie, even while he acknowledged the  dynastic necessity of marriage in general.

Conall was quite a libertine. His most pressing interest in a woman is whether or not he found her attractive, and he didn't much care what she felt. His love for Rothana,  while I think it was real enough, was  a pretty selfish and immature variety. 

Kelson doesn't have to insist on the respect given to rank, and his ability to relax about it gains him the personal support of the MacArdry Clan  that is more than just the baseline loyalty subjects owe their king. Conall's fussing  about proper formality just puts everyone off.

Melissa
You can have a sound mind in a healthy body--Or you can be a nanonovelist!

BalanceTheEnergies

QuoteI think it was Conall's own personality that was the problem.

I'm inclined to agree with Shiral. Conall is depicted as lacking in self-discipline when he starts fooling around with Vanissa and Tiercel is able to take him by surprise (in the Prologue). The text indicates this was a life-long trait.