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Author Topic: Visionaries--Part One--Chapter Five  (Read 11069 times)

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Offline AnnieUK

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Re: Visionaries--Part One--Chapter Five
« Reply #30 on: October 12, 2011, 11:58:07 am »
woke up this morning, eagerly checked her smartphone to see if there were any new comments in this thread, and read this post.


Evie evidently doesn't have a Blackberry.  *Sighs*

Offline Elkhound

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Re: Visionaries--Part One--Chapter Five
« Reply #31 on: October 12, 2011, 12:07:38 pm »
This is how I always tend to picture Hubert, though granted he's not a Cardinal:



My image almost exactly. 

Offline Evie

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Re: Visionaries--Part One--Chapter Five
« Reply #32 on: October 12, 2011, 12:17:14 pm »
woke up this morning, eagerly checked her smartphone to see if there were any new comments in this thread, and read this post.


Evie evidently doesn't have a Blackberry.  *Sighs*

LOL!  Yeah, I thought about you today when I was reading about the Blackberry snafu.  No, I have every Star Wars fan's dream phone...a Droid.   ;)

* Evie sends mystical un-fubar-ing energies in the general direction of Annie's Blackberry and RIM.
"In necessariis unitas, in non-necessariis libertas, in utrisque caritas."

--WARNING!!!--
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Offline Evie

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Re: Visionaries--Part One--Chapter Five
« Reply #33 on: October 12, 2011, 12:40:43 pm »
Of course there might be those who would be willing to submit for personal favors--better food, quarters, and money for their families--or to gain revenge on any rivals for past slights.

I can also imagine him stooping to extortion.  "So, had the bad fortune to marry a Deryni, eh?  Well, I'm afraid there's no help for your husband--it's the stake for him--but as for your children, it's possible they don't carry the Deryni taint.  I might be able to protect them, in exchange for...ah...good service.  I'm sure we can come to some sort of mutually beneficial understanding, can't we, dear?"  *beatific smile*
"In necessariis unitas, in non-necessariis libertas, in utrisque caritas."

--WARNING!!!--
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Offline AnnieUK

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Re: Visionaries--Part One--Chapter Five
« Reply #34 on: October 12, 2011, 12:43:05 pm »
It is of course a measure of how little I use it that I was told about the fubar today by a non-BB user!  But now that I know about it, I'm annoyed on principle.

Offline derynifanatic64

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Re: Visionaries--Part One--Chapter Five
« Reply #35 on: October 12, 2011, 09:18:33 pm »
That's a great picture!  Where did it come from?
We will never forget the events of 9-11!!  USA!! USA!!

Offline Alkari

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Re: Visionaries--Part One--Chapter Five
« Reply #36 on: October 12, 2011, 09:26:58 pm »
Pic is Orson Welles, as Cardinal Wolsey in A Man for All Seasons.  Story of Sir Thomas More.

Movie is absolutely 100% recommended if you haven't seen it.  Superb cast and acting, wonderful screenplay (by Robert Bolt from his own stage play), great story all round. 

ETA:  Three "must see" historical movies for Deryni fans - A Man for All Seasons, Becket, and The Lion in Winter.

« Last Edit: October 12, 2011, 09:31:37 pm by Alkari »

Offline Rahere

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Re: Visionaries--Part One--Chapter Five
« Reply #37 on: October 13, 2011, 02:41:19 am »
At the risk of complications concerning the back record between Scott and Peter Beresford Ellis (if there are any sore toes, I apologise in advance), the latter's Fidelma tales bring out one interesting thought, the spiritual foundation for celibacy. Firstly, there is the problem about conflicting priorities between loyalty to spouse, loyalty to Church, and loyalty to the Spirit as the accessible avatar of the divine. Secondly, there is the pragmatic doctrinal whereby St Paul makes marriage a requirement of Bishops (1Tim3), therefore even more of Archbishops: I am reminded of the old Army maxim, that a Lieutenant should not marry, a Captain can marry, a Major should marry and a Colonel must marry, basically in fuinctional terms: the Lieutenant must prioritise his men, a Colonel his battalion - and that means the men's families as well.
The track record is that until Whitby, celibacy was never on the table. Under Frederic II Hohenstauffen, licentiousness was promoted in the Empire. Thereafter, it was policy more often observed in the breach until the Wars of Religion, and the arrival of Calvinist puritanism in scale.

Offline Evie

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Re: Visionaries--Part One--Chapter Five
« Reply #38 on: October 13, 2011, 10:37:41 pm »
The track record is that until Whitby, celibacy was never on the table.

Assuming you're referring to the Synod of Whitby, wasn't that a few centuries (2 or 3) earlier than the entire celibacy question anyway?  Or am I totally misremembering?   I was thinking Whitby's issue was primarily with resolving whether the Church in England would go with the Roman dating of Easter rather than with Iona's dating, though maybe I'm totally off base and/or there were other things brought up during that synod that I'd forgot about.  (Wouldn't surprise me, as I've only got the spottiest knowledge of the subject anyway, but I was reading something fairly recently about it, which is how I happened to remember what little I know--or think I know--on the topic....  :D )

Hadn't heard of the Sister Fidelma mysteries before now, but now that I've had a Google and a bit of checking them out on Amazon, I might see if I can find a few to add to the Sister Frevisse books I've also just recently discovered.  Especially if I can find any in audiobook format or on Kindle....
"In necessariis unitas, in non-necessariis libertas, in utrisque caritas."

--WARNING!!!--
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Offline Rahere

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Re: Visionaries--Part One--Chapter Five
« Reply #39 on: October 14, 2011, 12:31:46 am »
Peter's a hard historian, and sets one of his murder mysteries in the foundation of Whitby, bringing out the way the celibacy question was first tabled there by pointing up the contrast in definitions of marriage in the two churches, Roman and Irish. At the time he's writing about, Rome's on its way up, and we're a bare generation or two from St Paddy and the Early Fathers, at a time when Ireland is carrying much of the weight of the Christian faith. Gives some interesting angles.
Another interesting source is Edith Pargetter, who later wrote the Cadfael Tales under the nom-de-plume of Ellis Peters. Obviously a Currer Bell modelist.

Major addendum with me nit-picking historian's head on: previous was a blogger's head.
The Synod was between the Celtic Church and Rome, not the Church of England as we currently know it: it included big chunks of England, as Patrick was Welsh, terreitory which arguably extended far up the west coast of England, and as you say was oriented towards the major differences in creed: one must remember this is the tail end of the time of the great heresies. One major subtheme was that Rome had already adopted the Benedictine Rule, which started implementing the thinking of Origen: Ireland had simply mapped pre-Christian structures into monasteries. Therefore, the question of celibacy arose but was not resolved.
« Last Edit: October 14, 2011, 11:43:50 am by Rahere »

Offline AnnieUK

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Re: Visionaries--Part One--Chapter Five
« Reply #40 on: October 14, 2011, 08:27:31 am »
Oooh, it's Friday.

*looks around to see if Evie is here yet and taps fingers in anticipation...*

#fridayisthenewmonday

Offline Evie

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Re: Visionaries--Part One--Chapter Five
« Reply #41 on: October 14, 2011, 10:04:45 am »
*dies laughing*

Patience, mo caraid!  The next chapter is queued up to post today, but I had a meeting first thing this morning and an urgent task or two in my inbox, so it might post later in the morning than usual.  Long before your usual bedtime, though, unless some major catastrophe comes up.   :D
"In necessariis unitas, in non-necessariis libertas, in utrisque caritas."

--WARNING!!!--
I have a vocabulary in excess of 75,000 words, and I'm not afraid to use it!

Offline AnnieUK

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Re: Visionaries--Part One--Chapter Five
« Reply #42 on: October 14, 2011, 10:25:37 am »
That's even better.  Then I can read it over a nice glass of red.  Not Fianna, sadly, but a decent red nonetheless.

 


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