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Author Topic: Who was in the first tomb Kelson and Dhugal discovered??? And other q's.  (Read 2707 times)

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Offline r2005

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I don't remember when Niallan died; could it have been not that Joram wouldn't conduct ordinations but couldn't because he didn't have a bishop available to do them (because Niallan was the only bishop in the sanctuary as far as I remember, so if he had died at some point between the deaths of Javan and Rhys Michael, there wouldn't have been anyone else available to ordain anyone, and Joram was a pretty hard-line stickler for the rules)?

Niallan was still alive at the end of The Bastard Prince. His mention at the end of the book is only to point out that the new Archbishop of Valoret dared not to bring Niallan back. His fate after this point, Codex hints withstanding, is entirely up in the air.

No matter how you're heart is grieving if you keep on believing the dream that you wish will come true

Offline DesertRose

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Okay, so that shoots that theory, at least through the end of the Heirs trilogy.  Back to the drawing board.
"If having a soul means being able to feel love, loyalty, and gratitude, then animals are better off than a lot of humans."

James Herriot (James Alfred "Alfie" Wight), when a human client asked him if animals have souls.  (I don't remember in which book the story originally appeared.)

Offline tenworld

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I am really enjoying this thread. Is there any hope that KK will ever write the story of 948? How all those people died and whether Morgan ever learns he is descended from Camber are the two biggest holes in this history.

Offline r2005

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I've been trying to formulate a list of people who knew about the Sanctuary beyond Camber's heirs just for the fun of pure speculation.

I'm sure some of the Michaelines who left knew about it, but who knows what any of them may have done with that knowledge.

There's Jesse, plus his sister, Seanna, Queron, and Niallan.

I was reading through the prologue of KJY, and there's the farrier, Ned, but I wouldn't be surprised protections were placed on him even though there's no mention of it, so he couldn't reveal much of anything. 

Goes back to the books.
« Last Edit: March 24, 2019, 09:46:11 pm by r2005 »
No matter how you're heart is grieving if you keep on believing the dream that you wish will come true

Offline Laurna

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I love that you are doing the research. Good job.

Offline r2005

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So, I leave this here so I don't get sidetracked while reading through the parts of the books that are set in the Sanctuary.

We know that Joram moved Rhys and Evaine's bodies from the chapel to an undisclosed location. I don't think he moved any of the other Michaelines that were also buried there. His comment to Javan was just about Rhys and Evaine.

Is Camber's body still in the chamber that's underneath the chapel?
No matter how you're heart is grieving if you keep on believing the dream that you wish will come true

Offline Bynw

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Is Camber's body still in the chamber that's underneath the chapel?

I think it is, but I dont think that the current Camberian Council knows that it is there.

Offline revanne

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Is Camber's body still in the chamber that's underneath the chapel?

I think it is, but I dont think that the current Camberian Council knows that it is there.

I wonder in Kelson's day if it was still believed amongst those who revered Camber's memory that his body had miraculously disappeared or whether Joram's insistence that he had moved his father's body had been generally accepted.
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As smoke is driven away, so drive them away;
    as wax melts before the fire,
    let the wicked perish before God.
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Offline reiki deryni

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Most, except the little group mention to be formed to know about Camber's body. Joram and the others that knew the truth wanted it that way.

Offline r2005

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This is my list of named non-MacRories who knew about the Sanctuary. I put asterisks next to the names of people that we know the circumstances of their deaths.   

Bishop Niallan
Bishop Dermot ~ He's the human who sided with the Deryni and was brought back after Hubert was replaced.
Jesse
Seanna
Gregory
Syclan*
Tavis*
Revan*
Camlin
Fiona
Javan*
Torcuill de la Marche
Queron
Guiscard*
Etienne*

There are also a bunch of unnamed characters who knew about the Sanctuary since they were part of Joram's spy network.
No matter how you're heart is grieving if you keep on believing the dream that you wish will come true

Offline Bynw

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The Sanctuary is one thing. Where Camber's body is located is another entirely. If I am remembering correctly, as I don't have access to all my books, Camber's body is on the black and white cubed alter where they found Orin's body. In the secret chamber under meeting place of the Camberian Council. This chamber was only known to a select view of the original CC members and I believe the knowledge died with them.

Offline DesertRose

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This is my list of named non-MacRories who knew about the Sanctuary. I put asterisks next to the names of people that we know the circumstances of their deaths.   

Bishop Niallan
Bishop Dermot ~ He's the human who sided with the Deryni and was brought back after Hubert was replaced.
Jesse
Seanna
Gregory
Syclan*
Tavis*
Revan*
Camlin
Fiona
Javan*
Torcuill de la Marche
Queron
Guiscard*
Etienne*

There are also a bunch of unnamed characters who knew about the Sanctuary since they were part of Joram's spy network.

Torcuill de la Marche wasn't a MacRorie, but I believe he was related to them, although the exact relation is never specified in the books to my recollection.  But de la Marche was the maiden name of Jocelyn, Camber's late wife/countess and mother of his children.  (I believe Rhysel Thuryn's middle name was Jocelyn, in honor of Evaine's mother.)
"If having a soul means being able to feel love, loyalty, and gratitude, then animals are better off than a lot of humans."

James Herriot (James Alfred "Alfie" Wight), when a human client asked him if animals have souls.  (I don't remember in which book the story originally appeared.)

Offline Laurna

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Per the Codex

The Camberian Council chamber, which is under a violet dome "hidden beneath a high, rock-girt plateau of the Rhendall Mountains, almost within sight of the sea. " It is made up of the Keeill and the chamber.  There is no mention in the Codex if Camber's body was moved to here.

Orin's body was found covered with a net of shiral crystals on its bier beneath Grecotha by Father Joram, Lady Evaine, and Dom Queron on the XIXth day of April in the year 918."  that is where they found the fifth protocol "The scroll of Daring". I believe that this is the location where Camber was buried. He was the Bishop of Grecotha for ten years, after-all, even if not in his own name.

The Haven or Sanctuary is in the Lendour Mountains near Dhassa. I always got the impression that this was underground with only a small above ground area but I may be completely wrong about that. We have never heard more about the Haven in Kelson's time. Wouldn't it be funny if the children Alaric and Duncan came across who stole their horses near the rocky defile and river they had to cross where from the Sanctuary. Just a thought.

Saint Kyriell's "This distant Village is located in the hills Northeast of Caerrorie."  Someone who knew about Orin's bier and then Camber's final resting place taught the people of Kyriell to use the Shiral crystal net. It very well could have been several of the people named above.

Offline Bynw

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Per the Codex

Orin's body was found covered with a net of shiral crystals on its bier beneath Grecotha by Father Joram, Lady Evaine, and Dom Queron on the XIXth day of April in the year 918."  that is where they found the fifth protocol "The scroll of Daring". I believe that this is the location where Camber was buried. He was the Bishop of Grecotha for ten years, after-all, even if not in his own name.


It might be there.

Offline Avisa

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Per the Codex

The Camberian Council chamber, which is under a violet dome "hidden beneath a high, rock-girt plateau of the Rhendall Mountains, almost within sight of the sea. " It is made up of the Keeill and the chamber.  There is no mention in the Codex if Camber's body was moved to here.

But how did they get THERE? Whose property was/is it on? So many questions.

Quote
Orin's body was found covered with a net of shiral crystals on its bier beneath Grecotha by Father Joram, Lady Evaine, and Dom Queron on the XIXth day of April in the year 918."  that is where they found the fifth protocol "The scroll of Daring". I believe that this is the location where Camber was buried. He was the Bishop of Grecotha for ten years, after-all, even if not in his own name.

Makes sense.

Quote
The Haven or Sanctuary is in the Lendour Mountains near Dhassa. I always got the impression that this was underground with only a small above ground area but I may be completely wrong about that. We have never heard more about the Haven in Kelson's time. Wouldn't it be funny if the children Alaric and Duncan came across who stole their horses near the rocky defile and river they had to cross where from the Sanctuary. Just a thought.

Man I really need to reread the Camber series, just so I can hunt for clues about all this. I can't imagine it was THAT close to Dhassa and civilization, but it would be pretty hilarious for Morgan to somehow just stumble across it, if there's anything left.

Quote
Saint Kyriell's "This distant Village is located in the hills Northeast of Caerrorie."  Someone who knew about Orin's bier and then Camber's final resting place taught the people of Kyriell to use the Shiral crystal net. It very well could have been several of the people named above.
This must be it, it's just surprising to think that any of them would set up a community to lose all contact with the outside world. Joram was definitely not a guy who would just leave things alone. And Ansel and Jesse and Evaine's kids all went off and had descendants. So that suggests that it was in fact Queron and/or some other priest who stuck around and got St. Kyriell's up and running.

 

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