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Author Topic: More on Transfer Portals  (Read 2826 times)

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Offline Bynw

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More on Transfer Portals
« on: November 04, 2018, 07:56:32 pm »

@MerchantDeryni  had a comment/question in chat tonight which went like this:

[18:55] <MerchantDeryni> So if a transfer portal can transfer 284 miles I can get around the world with transfer portals. Iceland to Faroe Islands is 284 miles from shore to shore.
[18:55] <derynifank> Sounds like a great trip MD
[18:56] <~DesertRose> That'd be a question for KK, I think, MerchantDeryni.

Teleportation has some effects when it comes to physics and the conservation of energy and momentum. Of course the Deryni wouldn't know these terms but they would know limitations to using a Transfer Portal based on what happens if someone attempts to circumvent the laws of psychics too much. However that being said. A Transfer Portal might be able to circumvent the laws of physics and compensate for the conservation of energy and momentum. Since the Deryni are not capable, currently anyway, of teleporting without a Transfer Portal on both ends.

The following is a bit of the physics involved when teleporting without a Transfer Portal and what can happen.

Teleportation jumps as far as 50km (31 miles) would involve disorientation for a period of 20 to 120 seconds after arrival. This results from the law of conservation of momentum: on a rotating planet, two locations will have different rotational speeds and directions. A jump from a point on the Earth’s equator to one of its poles would result in a total velocity difference between the teleportor and his surroundings of over 3300 kph (2050.5 MPH), which would lead to a messy death in short order. Changes in altitude (actually all movement to locations of differing gravitational potential) will result in potential energy changes, manifesting themselves as changes in body temperature. A jump of 1 km (0.6 miles) straight down will result in a temperature increase of 2.5 degrees Celsius (36.5 F); this is sufficient to cause extreme fever, brain damage, and even death. A jump up will cool the body by the same amount, with equally serious results. To be safe, a jump would not involve an elevation change of more than 400 meters (1312 feet), and multiple jumps would not involve a cumulative elevation change or more than 600 meters (1968.5 feet) in one hour. 

We know that using a Transfer Portal that a Deryni can go a lot further than 31 miles distance, and without any disorientation after arrival. So it would seem that a Transfer Portal does compensate for those pesky laws of physics when it comes to the conservation of energy and momentum. Otherwise the poor teleporting Deryni would be disoriented on arrival for a time, or perhaps stumble and fall on arrival due to the change. Or even worse, end up as a grease spot on the wall of the room they just arrived in.

Offline Evie

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Re: More on Transfer Portals
« Reply #1 on: November 05, 2018, 12:14:16 pm »

@MerchantDeryni  had a comment/question in chat tonight which went like this:

[18:55] <MerchantDeryni> So if a transfer portal can transfer 284 miles I can get around the world with transfer portals. Iceland to Faroe Islands is 284 miles from shore to shore.
[18:55] <derynifank> Sounds like a great trip MD
[18:56] <~DesertRose> That'd be a question for KK, I think, MerchantDeryni.

Teleportation has some effects when it comes to physics and the conservation of energy and momentum. Of course the Deryni wouldn't know these terms but they would know limitations to using a Transfer Portal based on what happens if someone attempts to circumvent the laws of psychics too much. However that being said. A Transfer Portal might be able to circumvent the laws of physics and compensate for the conservation of energy and momentum. Since the Deryni are not capable, currently anyway, of teleporting without a Transfer Portal on both ends.

The following is a bit of the physics involved when teleporting without a Transfer Portal and what can happen.

Teleportation jumps as far as 50km (31 miles) would involve disorientation for a period of 20 to 120 seconds after arrival. This results from the law of conservation of momentum: on a rotating planet, two locations will have different rotational speeds and directions. A jump from a point on the Earth’s equator to one of its poles would result in a total velocity difference between the teleportor and his surroundings of over 3300 kph (2050.5 MPH), which would lead to a messy death in short order. Changes in altitude (actually all movement to locations of differing gravitational potential) will result in potential energy changes, manifesting themselves as changes in body temperature. A jump of 1 km (0.6 miles) straight down will result in a temperature increase of 2.5 degrees Celsius (36.5 F); this is sufficient to cause extreme fever, brain damage, and even death. A jump up will cool the body by the same amount, with equally serious results. To be safe, a jump would not involve an elevation change of more than 400 meters (1312 feet), and multiple jumps would not involve a cumulative elevation change or more than 600 meters (1968.5 feet) in one hour. 

We know that using a Transfer Portal that a Deryni can go a lot further than 31 miles distance, and without any disorientation after arrival. So it would seem that a Transfer Portal does compensate for those pesky laws of physics when it comes to the conservation of energy and momentum. Otherwise the poor teleporting Deryni would be disoriented on arrival for a time, or perhaps stumble and fall on arrival due to the change. Or even worse, end up as a grease spot on the wall of the room they just arrived in.

It would be really nice to know how Deryni with very advanced training (like Sir Se) managed teleportation without the use of a Portal, since there seems to be a way that the Anvillers manage it even if it's become a lost art to most Deryni adepts.
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Offline Bynw

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Re: More on Transfer Portals
« Reply #2 on: November 05, 2018, 02:54:00 pm »

@MerchantDeryni  had a comment/question in chat tonight which went like this:

[18:55] <MerchantDeryni> So if a transfer portal can transfer 284 miles I can get around the world with transfer portals. Iceland to Faroe Islands is 284 miles from shore to shore.
[18:55] <derynifank> Sounds like a great trip MD
[18:56] <~DesertRose> That'd be a question for KK, I think, MerchantDeryni.

Teleportation has some effects when it comes to physics and the conservation of energy and momentum. Of course the Deryni wouldn't know these terms but they would know limitations to using a Transfer Portal based on what happens if someone attempts to circumvent the laws of psychics too much. However that being said. A Transfer Portal might be able to circumvent the laws of physics and compensate for the conservation of energy and momentum. Since the Deryni are not capable, currently anyway, of teleporting without a Transfer Portal on both ends.

The following is a bit of the physics involved when teleporting without a Transfer Portal and what can happen.

Teleportation jumps as far as 50km (31 miles) would involve disorientation for a period of 20 to 120 seconds after arrival. This results from the law of conservation of momentum: on a rotating planet, two locations will have different rotational speeds and directions. A jump from a point on the Earth’s equator to one of its poles would result in a total velocity difference between the teleportor and his surroundings of over 3300 kph (2050.5 MPH), which would lead to a messy death in short order. Changes in altitude (actually all movement to locations of differing gravitational potential) will result in potential energy changes, manifesting themselves as changes in body temperature. A jump of 1 km (0.6 miles) straight down will result in a temperature increase of 2.5 degrees Celsius (36.5 F); this is sufficient to cause extreme fever, brain damage, and even death. A jump up will cool the body by the same amount, with equally serious results. To be safe, a jump would not involve an elevation change of more than 400 meters (1312 feet), and multiple jumps would not involve a cumulative elevation change or more than 600 meters (1968.5 feet) in one hour. 

We know that using a Transfer Portal that a Deryni can go a lot further than 31 miles distance, and without any disorientation after arrival. So it would seem that a Transfer Portal does compensate for those pesky laws of physics when it comes to the conservation of energy and momentum. Otherwise the poor teleporting Deryni would be disoriented on arrival for a time, or perhaps stumble and fall on arrival due to the change. Or even worse, end up as a grease spot on the wall of the room they just arrived in.

It would be really nice to know how Deryni with very advanced training (like Sir Se) managed teleportation without the use of a Portal, since there seems to be a way that the Anvillers manage it even if it's become a lost art to most Deryni adepts.


Mind posting an excerpt of that event? I don't have any of my books available to look at.

Offline Evie

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Re: More on Transfer Portals
« Reply #3 on: November 05, 2018, 03:29:18 pm »
I don't have a copy of the Childe Morgan trilogy at work with me, but it would probably be in The King's Deryni, and there might be some instances of it used in In the King's Service. It's how Se managed to get back to Alyce (and later on, to Alaric) in times of extreme need, in some way so mysterious that apparently even Alyce was baffled by it.
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Offline whitelaughter

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Re: More on Transfer Portals
« Reply #4 on: November 06, 2018, 05:50:09 am »

We know that using a Transfer Portal that a Deryni can go a lot further than 31 miles distance, and without any disorientation after arrival. So it would seem that a Transfer Portal does compensate for those pesky laws of physics when it comes to the conservation of energy and momentum.
IIRC we also have cases of people climbing in height; isn't the Camberian Council based in the mountains? Sees to recall that it was an isolated eyrie that could no longer be reached by foot. Also, Wencit was operating from a city in a mountain pass.

But it's also worth noting that the Deryni do not displace the air when they arrive, and there isn't an inrush of air when they leave; so the difference in energy may be absorbed by the air - so that a long jump could result in the air behaving strangely at point of departure.

Or again, since a link to the earth is required, all of the changes may be balanced out by the planet itself.

Offline Bynw

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Re: More on Transfer Portals
« Reply #5 on: November 06, 2018, 10:55:03 am »

We know that using a Transfer Portal that a Deryni can go a lot further than 31 miles distance, and without any disorientation after arrival. So it would seem that a Transfer Portal does compensate for those pesky laws of physics when it comes to the conservation of energy and momentum.
IIRC we also have cases of people climbing in height; isn't the Camberian Council based in the mountains? Sees to recall that it was an isolated eyrie that could no longer be reached by foot. Also, Wencit was operating from a city in a mountain pass.

But it's also worth noting that the Deryni do not displace the air when they arrive, and there isn't an inrush of air when they leave; so the difference in energy may be absorbed by the air - so that a long jump could result in the air behaving strangely at point of departure.

Or again, since a link to the earth is required, all of the changes may be balanced out by the planet itself.


Yep. The Transfer Portals seem to compensate for those little laws of physics that get in the way of Teleportation without one.

Offline tenworld

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Re: More on Transfer Portals
« Reply #6 on: November 23, 2018, 02:03:31 pm »
We can compare transfer portals to other examples:
in Star Trek the portal works by converting mass to energy and beaming it like a laser. They have never addressed the issue of air displacement and somehow can always get the vertical position perfectly.
On Pern the dragons teleport by moving into another dimension and then jumping back in. Againg air and momentum are ignored.
The jump thru hyperspace in Star Wars, Asimov's Foundation and other SciFy is also a form of teleporting using other dimensions.
These have pseudo-scientific technical explanantions that fit within their respective universes.

But in Deryni world we have to accept magic per se as different than just "sufficiently advanced technology". That includes
taking a different form, conjuring up monsters, healing, as well as portals.

I can enjoy them all as they are presented.






 

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