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Author Topic: Sending information through Transfer Portals  (Read 3729 times)

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Offline whitelaughter

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Re: Sending information through Transfer Portals
« Reply #15 on: October 24, 2018, 11:33:40 pm »
Have checked the books: at the start of chapter 25 in Camber of Culdi[edit:sorry, The Heretic]
"when, after a few hours,  Camber at last dared to reach back to the St Neot's Portal, he could only sense the lingering message..."

So, definitely can be done as it is done.
« Last Edit: October 31, 2018, 07:38:05 am by whitelaughter »

Offline Bynw

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Re: Sending information through Transfer Portals
« Reply #16 on: October 25, 2018, 09:29:39 pm »
I don't think that is Camber of Culdi as it only has 21 chapters. Is it Camber the Heretic?

And questions are raised. Did Camber know about the message in the first place? And could anyone else duplicate his ability? Or maybe Camber sensed it because he knew it was there and he is one of the great masters.

Offline MerchantDeryni

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Re: Sending information through Transfer Portals
« Reply #17 on: October 26, 2018, 05:08:25 am »
First paragraph of chapter 25 in Heretic. Camber reached back to the portal and sensed the message.


Offline DesertRose

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Re: Sending information through Transfer Portals
« Reply #18 on: October 26, 2018, 08:30:18 am »
Have checked the books: at the start of chapter 25 in Camber of Culdi:
"when, after a few hours,  Camber at last dared to reach back to the St Neot's Portal, he could only sense the lingering message..."

So, definitely can be done as it is done.
I don't think that is Camber of Culdi as it only has 21 chapters. Is it Camber the Heretic?

And questions are raised. Did Camber know about the message in the first place? And could anyone else duplicate his ability? Or maybe Camber sensed it because he knew it was there and he is one of the great masters.

I'm not sure as to whether Camber knew the message was there, but I have to think he knew the signature of the St. Neot's Portal.  Being able to sense the message might be a sign of his adept status, but I tend to think that anyone who knew enough to know the Portal's signature would sense the message when they reached (psychically) for that Portal.

It seems like Portal travel requires being physically present on the departure Portal and knowing both the signature of that Portal (which can apparently be sensed by physical contact with the Portal and then memorized for future use) and the signature of the intended destination Portal.  So, say, someone less adept than Camber tried to reach the St. Neot's Portal after it was destroyed; that person would realize before attempting the jump that the Portal no longer existed, and they would probably also "hear" the message Dom Emrys left at the site.
"If having a soul means being able to feel love, loyalty, and gratitude, then animals are better off than a lot of humans."

James Herriot (James Alfred "Alfie" Wight), when a human client asked him if animals have souls.  (I don't remember in which book the story originally appeared.)

Offline Bynw

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Re: Sending information through Transfer Portals
« Reply #19 on: October 26, 2018, 09:47:03 am »
Not sure if Camber's sensing the message from afar is do to his adept status or not. It's questionable since we have no other examples of Deryni doing it from a distance.

But in either case, it's not a very good way to leave a message for someone else. Since anyone will be able to detect it from the Portal square if they are there physically.

Offline DesertRose

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Re: Sending information through Transfer Portals
« Reply #20 on: October 26, 2018, 09:56:31 am »
Not sure if Camber's sensing the message from afar is do to his adept status or not. It's questionable since we have no other examples of Deryni doing it from a distance.

But in either case, it's not a very good way to leave a message for someone else. Since anyone will be able to detect it from the Portal square if they are there physically.

Well, no, true.  There are much more effective means of conveying information than embedded messages in (former) Portals.  :D
"If having a soul means being able to feel love, loyalty, and gratitude, then animals are better off than a lot of humans."

James Herriot (James Alfred "Alfie" Wight), when a human client asked him if animals have souls.  (I don't remember in which book the story originally appeared.)

Offline whitelaughter

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Re: Sending information through Transfer Portals
« Reply #21 on: October 31, 2018, 07:48:04 am »
Camber definitely gets all of the message, as he reflects on the content. Generally when he does something that is supposed to be awesome, this is mentioned, as there'll be some reference as to how difficult it is; here no difficulty is implied, suggesting that any Deryni, or at least any trained Deryni, could do so.

Tavis talks about the problems a few chapters later - p418 of my volume, last few pages of chapter 27 - but seems to contradict himself. He can't tell whether a portal is active - except when he can. He can certainly sense some active Portals. So my assumption has always been that the warning was specifically to stop someone trying to teleport to an non-existent Portal and killing themselves.

[shrugs] you could always ask Katherine.


Offline Evie

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Re: Sending information through Transfer Portals
« Reply #22 on: October 31, 2018, 12:02:23 pm »
So my assumption has always been that the warning was specifically to stop someone trying to teleport to an non-existent Portal and killing themselves.

[shrugs] you could always ask Katherine.

Exactly why I've always assumed the same thing. There would be little point in putting in a warning that only people already at St. Neot's could detect.  It would be pretty obvious from that side of things that the Portal has been destroyed. But people trying to jump there from other places would have no idea, hence a warning is needed so that anyone trying to home in on the old Portal signature would discover that they can no longer jump there, and why.
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Offline Bynw

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Re: Sending information through Transfer Portals
« Reply #23 on: November 03, 2018, 09:13:56 pm »
So it is certainly possible to leave a message on a Transfer Portal. But any (Deryni) will be able to sense it and "hear" it. Not a good way of doing any kind of private or sensitive message.

Offline whitelaughter

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Re: Sending information through Transfer Portals
« Reply #24 on: November 06, 2018, 05:52:56 am »
So it is certainly possible to leave a message on a Transfer Portal. But any (Deryni) will be able to sense it and "hear" it. Not a good way of doing any kind of private or sensitive message.
Granted, but the potential to create a publicly available encyclopedia? Wiki half a millennia early? Massive game changer.

Offline MerchantDeryni

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Re: Sending information through Transfer Portals
« Reply #25 on: November 06, 2018, 02:07:25 pm »
Well that may work but the entire encyclopedia would recite as one long speech. I do not think the message would be searchable.

Now embedding the information into a crystal or item and setting up some sort of searchable database could be an interesting idea. No more scrolls for the Protocols of Orin. Update to the Shiral crystal version and search as you want to.

Going a step further and embedding a memory of a lecture might allow a person to attend lectures from the early masters. This would combine the scene of Saint Camber where the memory of Guaire is projected into a room, combined with the ability to embed that memory into a crystal.

This may or may not be possible. Interesting idea if it was. An entire library in your pocket. Something safe from fire hopefully.
It could be a neat plot point. The Deryni are trying to steal a necklace, not for the money, but because an entire course of study for Healing is psychically buried in it.

Offline Evie

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Re: Sending information through Transfer Portals
« Reply #26 on: November 06, 2018, 03:09:18 pm »
Well that may work but the entire encyclopedia would recite as one long speech. I do not think the message would be searchable.

Now embedding the information into a crystal or item and setting up some sort of searchable database could be an interesting idea. No more scrolls for the Protocols of Orin. Update to the Shiral crystal version and search as you want to.

Going a step further and embedding a memory of a lecture might allow a person to attend lectures from the early masters. This would combine the scene of Saint Camber where the memory of Guaire is projected into a room, combined with the ability to embed that memory into a crystal.

This may or may not be possible. Interesting idea if it was. An entire library in your pocket. Something safe from fire hopefully.
It could be a neat plot point. The Deryni are trying to steal a necklace, not for the money, but because an entire course of study for Healing is psychically buried in it.

I don't think whitelaughter meant that a particular Portal's message would contain an entire encyclopedia's worth of information so much as that each portal in a network could have information about that particular location, so that when considered as a whole, that entire network of portals could contain nearly that level of information if one were to visit each location. Or at least something along those lines was brought up earlier on in this discussion, which is what I think the reference was in response to.

Stored memories in a shiral crystal would be a cool use for them. Laurna did something similar in her first fanfic here, only in that case, the memories were stored in coins, but shiral would probably serve even better as a focus for storing those memories.
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Offline Laurna

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Re: Sending information through Transfer Portals
« Reply #27 on: November 06, 2018, 03:54:26 pm »
I chose silver coins because silver and gold seemed to be able to retain psychic emotions, not just flashes of images. Crystals hold power, but do they hold emotions? Do crystals play memories like a movie? I imagine they are clearer visually, but does metal hold a fuller psychic image allowing you to feel the memory as well as see it. This is where a necklace would come in handy, surround the crystal with a backing of gold or silver and then imbue the whole piece with the memory. Similarly use a chalice with gems on it's sides or rings such as the Bishop's ring.

Offline whitelaughter

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Re: Sending information through Transfer Portals
« Reply #28 on: November 09, 2018, 07:01:58 am »
I don't think whitelaughter meant that a particular Portal's message would contain an entire encyclopedia's worth of information so much as that each portal in a network could have information about that particular location, so that when considered as a whole, that entire network of portals could contain nearly that level of information if one were to visit each location.
That's right.
Frex, if you were curious about the Canary Islands, you could ping a Portal in the capital, which would give you a brief description of each island and the major Portal of that island; then ping the desired island to get locations within it, then the most regional Portals would tell you about the areas surrounding them. Different Portal networks would provide different sorts of information; a church network would allow a virtual pilgrimage, the merchant networks describe the resources available, the noble networks the history and heraldry of the islands, plus famous heroes.

Over time, this could grow more and more detailed until literally everything was coded somewhere, and all accessible by a Portal-surf.

Now embedding the information into a crystal or item and setting up some sort of searchable database could be an interesting idea. No more scrolls for the Protocols of Orin. Update to the Shiral crystal version and search as you want to.

Going a step further and embedding a memory of a lecture might allow a person to attend lectures from the early masters. This would combine the scene of Saint Camber where the memory of Guaire is projected into a room, combined with the ability to embed that memory into a crystal.

This may or may not be possible. Interesting idea if it was. An entire library in your pocket. Something safe from fire hopefully.
It could be a neat plot point. The Deryni are trying to steal a necklace, not for the money, but because an entire course of study for Healing is psychically buried in it.
Stored memories in a shiral crystal would be a cool use for them. Laurna did something similar in her first fanfic here, only in that case, the memories were stored in coins, but shiral would probably serve even better as a focus for storing those memories.
That would be fascinating. That said, in some ways it would be worse that written texts, because linguistic drift would make comprehension harder!

If an entire set of combat spells can be racked and provided to each Haldane, then something like this must be possible. 

Offline Evie

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Re: Sending information through Transfer Portals
« Reply #29 on: November 09, 2018, 12:33:04 pm »
I don't think whitelaughter meant that a particular Portal's message would contain an entire encyclopedia's worth of information so much as that each portal in a network could have information about that particular location, so that when considered as a whole, that entire network of portals could contain nearly that level of information if one were to visit each location.
That's right.
Frex, if you were curious about the Canary Islands, you could ping a Portal in the capital, which would give you a brief description of each island and the major Portal of that island; then ping the desired island to get locations within it, then the most regional Portals would tell you about the areas surrounding them. Different Portal networks would provide different sorts of information; a church network would allow a virtual pilgrimage, the merchant networks describe the resources available, the noble networks the history and heraldry of the islands, plus famous heroes.

Over time, this could grow more and more detailed until literally everything was coded somewhere, and all accessible by a Portal-surf.

Now embedding the information into a crystal or item and setting up some sort of searchable database could be an interesting idea. No more scrolls for the Protocols of Orin. Update to the Shiral crystal version and search as you want to.

Going a step further and embedding a memory of a lecture might allow a person to attend lectures from the early masters. This would combine the scene of Saint Camber where the memory of Guaire is projected into a room, combined with the ability to embed that memory into a crystal.

This may or may not be possible. Interesting idea if it was. An entire library in your pocket. Something safe from fire hopefully.
It could be a neat plot point. The Deryni are trying to steal a necklace, not for the money, but because an entire course of study for Healing is psychically buried in it.
Stored memories in a shiral crystal would be a cool use for them. Laurna did something similar in her first fanfic here, only in that case, the memories were stored in coins, but shiral would probably serve even better as a focus for storing those memories.
That would be fascinating. That said, in some ways it would be worse that written texts, because linguistic drift would make comprehension harder!

If an entire set of combat spells can be racked and provided to each Haldane, then something like this must be possible.

While I do think each Portal could at least theoretically host informational messages for those attuning themselves to that Portal's individual signature, I think in practice the information would not be as easily gained as info gained during an Internet surf, because in order to access a Portal to begin with, one first needs to know the Portal signature, which doesn't usually happen unless one has actually been there before. It seems to be possible to derive that signature from someone else's memories of going through that Portal, otherwise Teymuraz would not have been able to use the Portal in Rhemuth (unless he had just happened to discover it on a previous visit there, but that seems wildly unlikely), but in any case, one would need to know the precise signature of the destination Portal before psychically linking with it.  So you couldn't really location-info-hop, as it were, unless you already had all of those Portal signatures somehow committed to memory, unless there is also some way that signatures of other Portals can be added to that transmitted information, which there might be, but we've seen no evidence of that in canon.
« Last Edit: November 09, 2018, 12:36:11 pm by Evie »
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