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Author Topic: I just got my copy. . .  (Read 34062 times)

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Offline Elkhound

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Re: I just got my copy. . .
« Reply #45 on: November 17, 2014, 07:31:57 am »

Revanne and Evie,  I agree with both of you that this is quite a convoluted family tree. But I suspect nobility was often intertwined to keep the wrong members of a family from gaining family lands.

They say that two things that Royalty and Rednecks have in common is marrying their cousins.

Offline drakensis

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Re: I just got my copy. . .
« Reply #46 on: November 17, 2014, 03:22:13 pm »
The Furstan family tree is... rather convoluted in that regard. Particularly the Furstan-Arjenol and Furstan-Festil branches.

(the royal families of Europe really weren't any better though).

Offline Elkhound

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Re: I just got my copy. . .
« Reply #47 on: November 17, 2014, 09:04:44 pm »
The Furstan family tree is... rather convoluted in that regard. Particularly the Furstan-Arjenol and Furstan-Festil branches.

(the royal families of Europe really weren't any better though).

Sometime look at the pedigree of the Spanish Hapsburgs.  Not so much a family tree as a family tumbleweed.  http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-uBesB6jGdow/UHLum-_jMiI/AAAAAAAAAtE/VaKIrj5t_UE/s1600/Spanish.gif

And, rather later, World War I was called by some historian whose name escapes me, "The nastiest family quarrel ever."  The King of Great Britain & Ireland and the Emperor of Germany were first cousins, both being grandsons of Queen Victoria.  There is a series of telegrams between the Emperors of Germany and Russia trying to stop the conflagration signed "Cousin Willi" and "Cousin Nikki."  Prince Rupert of Bavaria, one of Kaiser Bill's generals, was the heir to the Stewart claim to the British throne--which meant that not a few Scottish officers resigned their commissions, on the ground that having sworn to fight for 'king and country' they were in danger of having to choose to violate one clause or the other of that oath.
« Last Edit: November 18, 2014, 08:39:02 am by Elkhound »

Offline revanne

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Re: I just got my copy. . .
« Reply #48 on: November 18, 2014, 03:12:01 am »
Not to mention the fact that Queen Victoria could be regarded as responsible if not culpable in another way. She was a carrier for haemophilia which through her was transferred to the Tsarevitch, which is how Rasputin got his hold over the Russian Imperial family.

Also look at photos of Tsar Nicholas II and George V - didn't stop the British government from refusing to give the Russian royal family refuge though. Just another of those little things we don't really mention...
Let God rise up, let his enemies be scattered;
    let those who hate him flee before him.
As smoke is driven away, so drive them away;
    as wax melts before the fire,
    let the wicked perish before God.
(Psalm 68 vv1-2)

Offline drakensis

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Re: I just got my copy. . .
« Reply #49 on: November 18, 2014, 02:06:16 pm »
Another chart I drew up for my project: take a look at the prolific descendants of Sighere of Eastmarch!



A Duchy, three Earldoms, three Baronies - not bad!

Richenda was a FitzEwan while of course we've encountered bad apples among the Howell and Coris families in Kelson's day.

Online Laurna

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Re: I just got my copy. . .
« Reply #50 on: November 18, 2014, 02:12:21 pm »
Wow!  Drakensis, Great job.
I did not know that about Richenda's father.
Keep up the hunt. This is fun!

Offline NavaWazr

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Re: I just got my copy. . .
« Reply #51 on: November 19, 2014, 10:51:01 pm »
It's here! It's here!! It's here!!! I have a copy of Codex II in lovely condition! (happy dance)
I realized that I wanted to be Deryni, would have loved to be another niece of Uncle Azim, perhaps living on a Fianna vineyard.... but I'm a never wazzer

Offline Evie

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Re: I just got my copy. . .
« Reply #52 on: November 19, 2014, 10:59:56 pm »
Congratulations!  :)
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Online Laurna

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Re: I just got my copy. . .
« Reply #53 on: November 20, 2014, 01:23:59 am »
NavaWazr  Good Hunting!

I know I've been a bit delinquent about reading The Bastard Prince, but I am into it now. Since I did the genealogy, a lot of the names now have meaning for me. I have a question about one of the families. We get a full background of Etienne de Courcy, King Javan's secretary. And I remembered Fane Fitz-Arthur Quinnell, Duke of Cassan (994-1016) marries Ardana, Lady de Courcy. I am not able to prove a genealogy between Etienne and Ardana except for family name and about 100 years difference. But can this mean Ardana is Deryni? The de Courcy family were all Deryni in Cambers time.

Here is all the info I can find on family "de Courcy"
 *  Etienne,Baron De Courcy Deryni Lord King Javan’s Confidential secretary
        Born November 22 873, Died May 20 922
        Son of Leopard Baron de Courcy and the Duchess Cygnette Lady Duc du Joux
        Married Kenza Lady Stiofan on June 23, 891
        Children: Lord Guiscard, Lord Huon, Lady Elvienne, Lady Fleurette
        Etienne guarded the Rhemuth Portal. He saved Hearler Oriel’s wife and daughter when Javan was killed. His powers were blocked by   Tieg, and he returned to Rhemuth only to be tortured and killed.
 *  Oldest son Lord Guiscard de Courcy Sir   Deryni Lord
        Born March 4 892, Died May 11, 922 at King Javan’s side
        Married Jael Lady Coanuy June 14,919, Children Sir Alphard and Lady Shellyn
 *  Oldest grandson, Lord Alphard, was given the Barony of Stanzar in lieu of de Courcy after 929.
        Lord Alphard married Bethany Ainslie who was daughter of Rhysel Thuryn
 *  Ardana, Lady de Courcy marries Fane Duke of Cassan
        No proof has been yet found, But can Ardana’s great grandfather be Etienne? and her grandmother be Rhysel Thuryn?
« Last Edit: November 20, 2014, 01:37:21 am by Laurna »

Offline drakensis

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Re: I just got my copy. . .
« Reply #54 on: November 21, 2014, 02:08:55 am »
I haven't found anything so far regarding Ardana or her heritage. Timing-wise it seems possible she's a daughter or grand-daughter of Bethany Ainslie. As Fane would be the child of Bethany's younger sister the former's more likely depending on when their respective children are born.

If she is Bethany's daughter, marrying Fane would mean she was marrying her own first cousin and if she's Bethany's grand-daughter she's marrying a first-cousin once-removed. That's still marginally closer than Kelson's kinship to Araxie (first cousin once-removed but through a half-sibling) so some dispensation would be needed either way.

Online Laurna

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Re: I just got my copy. . .
« Reply #55 on: November 21, 2014, 11:45:39 am »
I will agree that first cousin is a bit too close.
In keeping with the de Courcy name and the only members of the family that we know of, it is also possible that Ardana is the granddaughter of Lord Huon, second son of Etienne de Courcy. She would not be an decedent of Camber, but she would be Deryni. At least 1/4 Deryni, possibly more. A definite push for the old human Dukes of Cassan lineage to be more lenient toward Deryni.

Offline drakensis

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Re: I just got my copy. . .
« Reply #56 on: November 21, 2014, 02:21:14 pm »
If Codex 3 ever goes to digital format, imagine how much easier this will be. Just search for a name and find every reference to that name in the book.  I would love that. I would only have to keep separated the generations that have a tendency to repeat family names.  ;D

The likely thing for this would be a dedicated wiki as many fandoms have these day - in this the Codex was ahead of its time in having a record of all this information. Hotlinks to move from one family member to another, etc.

Of course that takes a lot of work from dedicated fans - particularly to build up to the detailed information level provided by the Codex.

Offline lenni

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Re: I just got my copy. . .
« Reply #57 on: November 21, 2014, 06:58:33 pm »
I know I've been a bit delinquent about reading The Bastard Prince, but I am into it now. Since I did the genealogy, a lot of the names now have meaning for me. I have a question about one of the families. We get a full background of Etienne de Courcy, King Javan's secretary. And I remembered Fane Fitz-Arthur Quinnell, Duke of Cassan (994-1016) marries Ardana, Lady de Courcy. I am not able to prove a genealogy between Etienne and Ardana except for family name and about 100 years difference. But can this mean Ardana is Deryni? The de Courcy family were all Deryni in Cambers time.

There are LOTS of de Courcys running around that can't be linked together. :-( The "circa" dates are my guesstimates, usually based upon when parents were married or when children were born. I include them as a sorting mechanism - which child is the eldest?!

There are the de Courcys in Javan's time as listed by Laurna.
Léopard de Courcy, d. 9 Oct 901
+Cygnette Buyenne, m. before 873
└── Étienne de Courcy, b. 22 Nov 873, d. 20 May 922
    +Lady Kenza Stiofan, m. 23 Jun 891
    ├── Guiscard de Courcy, b. 4 Mar 892, d. 11 May 922
    │   +Lady Jael Coanuy, m. 14 Jun 919
    │   ├── Alphard de Courcy, b. circa 920
    │   │   +Bethany Ainslie, b. circa 929, m. circa 949
    │   └── Shellyn de Courcy, b. circa 922
    ├── Huon de Courcy, b. circa 894
    ├── Lady Élvienne de Courcy, b. circa 896
    └── Lady Fleurette de Courcy, b. circa 898


And then there is a random de Courcy from a later time:
Ardana de Courcy
+Fane Fitz-Arthur Quinnell, b. 15 Dec 952, m. circa 979, d. 1016
├── Tambert II Fitz-Arthur Quinnell, b. circa 980, d. 1025
. . .


And then more random de Courcys from a later time - one of Alarics's great-great grandmothers:
Lady Javana de Courcy
+Sir Stiofan Anthony de Corwyn, b. 7 Apr 985, m. before 2 Jan 1011, d. 11 Oct 1068
├── Airlie de Corwyn, b. 2 Jan 1011, d. before 1051
│   +Grania d'Oriel, b. circa 1022, m. before 1041, d. 1068
│   └── Stevana de Corwyn, b. 18 Oct 1042, d. 17 Aug 1075
│       +Keryell Cynfyn, b. circa 1030, m. 25 May 1069, d. 8 Nov 1086
│       ├── Alyce Leslyn de Corwyn, b. 2 Feb 1070, d. 29 Dec 1095
│       ├── Vera Thamar de Corwyn, b. 2 Feb 1070, d. 31 Jan 1115
│       ├── Ahern Jernian de Corwyn, b. 1 May 1071, d. 7 Nov 1090
│       └── Marie Stephania de Corwyn, b. 1 May 1071, d. 2 Sep 1088
└── Tayman de Corwyn, b. 22 Jul 1012, d. before 11 Oct 1068



These de Courcy's are from the Childe Morgan trilogy. Michon de Courcy is one of the Camberian council and the father-in-law of Sieffany MacAthan, one of the daughters of Jessamy (Lewys ap Norfal's daughter).
Guiscard de Courcy, d. 20 Nov 1056
+Lune MacGregor
└── Michon Étienne Estèphe de Courcy, b. 11 May 1030, d. 30 Oct 1097
    +Sylphe MacAthan, m. 1 May 1055
    ├── Charolys de Courcy, b. circa 1056
    ├── Aurélien de Courcy, b. circa 1058
    │   +Sieffany MacAthan, b. before 1068, m. circa 1078
    │   └── Barnabé de Courcy, b. circa 1079
    ├── Jéhoram de Courcy, b. circa 1060
    ├── Micheline de Courcy, b. circa 1062
    ├── Fénelon de Courcy, b. circa 1064
    └── Chablys de Courcy, b. circa 1066


These de Courcy's are from Alaric's childhood. We'll be seeing the murder/burning of Fr. Jorian de Courcy in the upcoming book.
Alcime de Courcy
+Guinimande Dembrun
└── Jorian de Courcy, b. 26 Dec 1083, d. 11 Nov 1104

Offline lenni

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Re: I just got my copy. . .
« Reply #58 on: November 21, 2014, 07:01:27 pm »
If Codex 3 ever goes to digital format, imagine how much easier this will be. Just search for a name and find every reference to that name in the book.  I would love that. I would only have to keep separated the generations that have a tendency to repeat family names.  ;D

The likely thing for this would be a dedicated wiki as many fandoms have these day - in this the Codex was ahead of its time in having a record of all this information. Hotlinks to move from one family member to another, etc.

I believe that elsewhere in the the forum (maybe in this topic - I just got my copy), someone mentioned that Ms. Kurtz is planning (hoping?) to come out with Codex Derynianus in a digital format.I certainly hope that is the case! :-D

Offline Evie

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Re: I just got my copy. . .
« Reply #59 on: November 21, 2014, 10:06:41 pm »

I believe that elsewhere in the the forum (maybe in this topic - I just got my copy), someone mentioned that Ms. Kurtz is planning (hoping?) to come out with Codex Derynianus in a digital format.I certainly hope that is the case! :-D

That was the plan before Rob Reginald's death. KK would still like to do the project, if she can get all of Rob's file from his widow and find someone else with the tech savvy to pull together that project for her. At Dragoncon she hinted that she may seek help from people in this forum to help her keep the details straight.
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