The Worlds of Katherine Kurtz

The Deryni Series => Other Deryni Books => Codex Derynianus => Topic started by: AnnieUK on September 15, 2007, 04:15:50 am

Title: Alaric's & Richenda's children
Post by: AnnieUK on September 15, 2007, 04:15:50 am
In the Codex (new one, anyway) entry for Alaric it says his children with Richenda were Briony, Kelric and Sophonisba.  Apart from feeling sorry for the one with the strange name, have I missed something?  Is this one that died young, or one we haven't met yet? 
Title: Re: Alaric's & Richenda's children
Post by: Shiral on September 15, 2007, 06:26:36 pm
In the Codex (new one, anyway) entry for Alaric it says his children with Richenda were Briony, Kelric and Sophonisba.  Apart from feeling sorry for the one with the strange name, have I missed something?  Is this one that died young, or one we haven't met yet? 

In the paperback Codex, her name is changed, I believe, to Grania Marie. (Much nicer than Sophonisba, I agree!) But I believe she was born after the events in KKB, and we just haven't met her, yet.

Melissa
Title: Re: Alaric's & Richenda's children
Post by: Elkhound on September 24, 2007, 01:52:56 pm
Sophonisba?

Well, she'd probably go by 'Sophie', which isn't too bad.
Title: Re: Alaric's & Richenda's children
Post by: Shiral on September 25, 2007, 12:32:57 pm
Sophonisba?

Well, she'd probably go by 'Sophie', which isn't too bad.

I would think she'd definitely go by Sophie.  But I can't picture Alaric saddling a child of his with a name as awful as Sophonisba. They might as well call her Hepzibah and be done with it. If KK carries the Kelson stories beyond KKB, I can't imagine she'd let that name stand. Some of the place and personal names in the original Codex were not to her taste, either.

Melissa
Title: Re: Alaric's & Richenda's children
Post by: EvilEd on September 27, 2007, 09:03:31 pm
My Father-in-law wanted to name my spouse Hepzibah, but saner minds prevailed... He thought it would be nice to have a daughter who was a "hep cat".

*sighs*
Title: Re: Alaric's & Richenda's children
Post by: Shiral on September 29, 2007, 11:36:18 am
Last night, I excavated my new Codex out from under my bed. While Alaric and Richenda's baby daughter IS unfortunate enough to be referred to as "Sophonisba Alyca Richenda" in  both Alaric and Richenda's entries at the end of the timeline there is this entry for April 12, 1129: "Lady Grania Marie Araxelle is born to Alaric Duke of Corwyn and Richenda Lady of Rheljan."

I guess Sophonisba was just never changed properly to Grania Marie Araxelle in the two entries. But I knew I had read of the child's being given a nicer name SOMEWHERE in the new Codex. Glad to know I wasn't imagining it!

EvilEd, I imagine your wife is VERY grateful to whatever relatives rescued her from having to go through life as  "Hepzibah."  :o And her father should too. Perhaps they saved him from years of child therapist's biills. =o)

Melissa
Title: Re: Alaric's & Richenda's children
Post by: Obiwan3 on September 30, 2007, 08:01:03 am
EvilEd,
He must have been a pre-hippie! How many kids were saddled with psychedelic era monikers like "Moon Unit" or "Dweezle"?

Obiwan
Title: Re: Alaric's & Richenda's children
Post by: morgan on February 09, 2008, 07:16:37 am
Just to laugh: even Alaric can be a strange name if you translate it in italian  ;D It would sound as "Alarico", but it's quite pretty in english  :)
Title: Re: Alaric's & Richenda's children
Post by: Elkhound on February 15, 2008, 02:20:38 pm
My Father-in-law wanted to name my spouse Hepzibah, but saner minds prevailed... He thought it would be nice to have a daughter who was a "hep cat".

*sighs*

The girl in "Silas Marner" was named Hepzibah; she went by Eppie.
Title: Re: Alaric's & Richenda's children
Post by: JulianneTK on February 16, 2008, 06:00:46 pm
Hepzibah is  a perfectly good old New England name. Check out stories by Nathaniel Hawthorne for example.  In the House of the Seven Gables -- the real one in Salem, MA -- there's a reproduction of Hepzibah's Candy Shoppe from the book.

   Sorry-- I grew up here in the Boston area. There's so much history here that I just can't help it.  :) 

   *Some* of those old Puritan names from New England can get really bad...
**********
blessed be, Julianne
Title: Re: Alaric's & Richenda's children
Post by: Shiral on February 21, 2008, 01:43:35 am
Hepzibah is  a perfectly good old New England name. \
   *Some* of those old Puritan names from New England can get really bad...
**********
blessed be, Julianne

Okay... out of morbid curiousity, Julianne, how much WORSE than "Hepzibah" can old New England names get?  ;) :)

Melissa
Title: Re: Alaric's & Richenda's children
Post by: snuffybear on February 21, 2008, 08:22:10 pm
How much worse than Hepzibah? How about Eliphalet (for a guy) or Shearjashub (also a man) If you ever need a girl's name, there's always Tryphosa, or if you've used Tryphosa, maybe Achsah would be a good name. Mehitable is also a girl's name...

(Honest and true, I'm not making these up. They're all on gravestones on Cape Cod!)

Marion
Title: Re: Alaric's & Richenda's children
Post by: Shiral on February 22, 2008, 01:22:56 am
How much worse than Hepzibah? How about Eliphalet (for a guy) or Shearjashub (also a man) If you ever need a girl's name, there's always Tryphosa, or if you've used Tryphosa, maybe Achsah would be a good name. Mehitable is also a girl's name...

(Honest and true, I'm not making these up. They're all on gravestones on Cape Cod!)

Marion

All right, granted, they're all pretty awful. I could never inflict Eliphalet or Shearsajub on a son of mine, knowing they'd have to endure grade school recesses in a 21st century school and playground.  I'd only choose Tryphosa if I wanted a name that sounded like Typhoid. Still, these names strike me as eccentric. I'd still name a daughter  Mehitabel before I'd name her Hepzibah, though, as Hepzibah still takes the cake for sheer awfulness for me. Not MUCH before Hepzibah, mind you! But still, before .

Melissa
Title: Re: Alaric's & Richenda's children
Post by: derynifanatic64 on February 22, 2008, 06:59:14 pm
How bout this one?  The newspaper here in Orlando has a "Ticked Off" section where people can make anonymous complaints about anything.  There is a couple in this area who apparently named their son--get ready--God Lucifer.  Someone berated the child's parents for thinking up this name and the child's father told that person to MYOB!!
Title: Re: Alaric's & Richenda's children
Post by: Obiwan3 on February 23, 2008, 11:48:52 am
Whatever floats your boat. No accounting for tastes & naming situations. i kind of like Hepzibah, reminds me of some of the names Walt Kelly used in his "Pogo" comic strip, back in the 60's. Now there was a satirical cartoon.
Title: Re: Alaric's & Richenda's children
Post by: JulianneTK on February 24, 2008, 09:09:46 pm
Ummm, how about Dorcas?  Blech!  or Elishabet (or something like that-- my reference books are all downstairs in the library and I've been going up and down all day...) There are more, I swear it.  I'll have to look them up for you.  I was terribly glad to see on the chat log that Katherine agrees with us that Alaric would have better taste in names than Sophonisba.
**********
Julianne
Title: Re: Alaric's & Richenda's children
Post by: Shiral on February 25, 2008, 01:24:41 am
Ummm, how about Dorcas?  Blech!  or Elishabet (or something like that-- my reference books are all downstairs in the library and I've been going up and down all day...) There are more, I swear it.  I'll have to look them up for you.  I was terribly glad to see on the chat log that Katherine agrees with us that Alaric would have better taste in names than Sophonisba.
**********
Julianne

Okay yes. Dorcas is pretty bad!   :o  You couldn't name a modern child Dorcas, or the poor kid would be immercifully teased by her classmates who would find some terrible nicknames.  Elishabet...well, why not just name the kid Elizabeth and be done with it?  But then other cultures have some questionable names, too. 

Melissa
Title: Re: Alaric's & Richenda's children
Post by: JulianneTK on February 26, 2008, 06:31:07 pm
Umm how about 'Dorcas'?  One of the victims of the Salem Witch Hysteria had a 6yrold child who went to jail with her and the little girl's name was Dorcas.

   That name's yuccky for my money.
Title: Re: Alaric's & Richenda's children
Post by: JulianneTK on February 26, 2008, 06:32:13 pm
Oops -- Imissed going to page 2.  I *thought* I'd posted that name already... sigh... long day-- just back from February vacation.  School days are verrrry long right now.
Title: Re: Alaric's & Richenda's children
Post by: Elkhound on March 04, 2008, 10:27:35 am
Dorcas?  Better Tabitha.  And teach her to sew. (Can anyone spot the Scripture reference?)
Title: Re: Alaric's & Richenda's children
Post by: Mak on March 05, 2008, 10:07:06 am
I rather like Dorcas.  Maybe because I know a Dorcas and she's a lovely lady.  It means "gazelle" in Greek, so it's really a graceful name.  One of my uncles dated a Hortense for a while.  He married a Dorothy, tho!  LOL
Title: Re: Alaric's & Richenda's children
Post by: Shiral on March 05, 2008, 12:39:39 pm
I rather like Dorcas.  Maybe because I know a Dorcas and she's a lovely lady.  It means "gazelle" in Greek, so it's really a graceful name.  One of my uncles dated a Hortense for a while.  He married a Dorothy, tho!  LOL

Fair enough, although I have to admit, when I hear the name "Dorcas" my most natural sound association drifts more toward "dork" than "gazelle."

Hortense....oh, there's another winner in the "Bad Names" sweepstakes.  The worst thing that could happen to a girl might be the name "Hepzibah Hortense" or maybe Hortense Hepzibah.  :) Dorothy I don't mind, so much, although it's rather old fashioned. Maybe it's because of my associating it with The Wizard of Oz. Or because one of my mother's oldest friends is named Dorothea, and she's a very cool person.

Melissa
Title: Re: Alaric's & Richenda's children
Post by: Elkhound on March 06, 2008, 03:05:29 pm
Theodosia?

Honoria?

Cassiopea?

Euphemia?

Lucinda?

Helga?

Bertha?
Title: Re: Alaric's & Richenda's children
Post by: JulianneTK on March 06, 2008, 06:56:04 pm
Theodosia's not so bad and Cassiopeia is actually quite nice--named after stars, or maybe after the "socialiator" on the original Battlestar Galactica.   ;D

 Euphemia, Helga and Bertha, though -- ewwww! 

  I bet there's lots of baaaaaad names in the Codex.
Title: Re: Alaric's & Richenda's children
Post by: Mak on March 06, 2008, 08:35:57 pm
I do like Dorothy, but then my mother is a Dorothy.  Which, when you think about it, is kind of weird- I have a mother named Dorothy and an aunt with the same name.  And so do my cousins!
Title: Re: Alaric's & Richenda's children
Post by: Obiwan3 on March 08, 2008, 09:17:33 am
Elkhound's list look like a list of Greek mythology (& Viking?) names. I always liked Clytemnestra. :D
Title: Re: Alaric's & Richenda's children
Post by: Elkhound on March 08, 2008, 04:28:37 pm
Obiwan3:

"Elkhound's list look like a list of Greek mythology (& Viking?) names. I always liked Clytemnestra. "

Why not 'Medea' while we're at it?

A friend of mine dated a woman named 'Pandora' for a while.  I advised him that if there was an interesting-looking box, trunk, chest, or jar in her house that he not open it.
Title: Re: Alaric's & Richenda's children
Post by: JulianneTK on March 08, 2008, 06:56:09 pm
<A friend of mine dated a woman named 'Pandora' for a while.  I advised him that if there was an interesting-looking box, trunk, chest, or jar in her house that he not open it.>

Snicker!

Title: Re: Alaric's & Richenda's children
Post by: derynifanatic64 on March 08, 2008, 07:36:54 pm
Don't forget that in the bottom of Pandora's box, after all of the bad stuff escaped, was Hope.
Title: Re: Alaric's & Richenda's children
Post by: derynifanatic64 on March 08, 2008, 07:41:49 pm
I think that Xenia would be an interesting name for a girl.  Brion and Nigel had a sister named Xenia.
Title: Re: Alaric's & Richenda's children
Post by: Shiral on March 09, 2008, 12:59:14 pm
Theodosia?

Honoria?

Cassiopea?

Euphemia?

Lucinda?

Helga?

Bertha?

Theodosia's unusual, but it doesn't give me an "ew gross" feeling, the way Euphemia does.  :D Honoria..no, I wouldn't saddle a modern kid with that one. Bertha and Helga are right out. Lucinda I don't mind so much for the same reason I don't mind Theodosia and Casseiopia  has possibilities at least for a novel character if not an actual child.

I probably wouldn't name a child Clytemnestra. (Although I thought Clytemnestra got a raw deal from Agamemnon. First he sacrifices their daughter, then he's away for ten years at the Siege of Troy.)Or Electra, either. I've always thought "Electra" suggests someone who's always poking around in fuse boxes.  :)  Pandora? Nope. Andromache? Forget it The Greeks had some strange names.

Melissa
Title: Re: Alaric's & Richenda's children
Post by: Elkhound on March 10, 2008, 02:35:37 pm
Quote
I probably wouldn't name a child Clytemnestra. (Although I thought Clytemnestra got a raw deal from Agamemnon. First he sacrifices their daughter, then he's away for ten years at the Siege of Troy.)Or Electra, either. I've always thought "Electra" suggests someone who's always poking around in fuse boxes.  :)  Pandora? Nope. Andromache? Forget it The Greeks had some strange names.

Melissa

There is a theory that Andromache may have been an Amazon princess originally.  It is certainly an Amazonian name (it means "fights like a man"), and Homer does list the Amazons among the allies of the Trojans, lead by their Queen Penesthelia, who was killed by Achilles (that incident isn't in the Illiad, but other portions of the Tale of Troy.  It was the subject of a lost tragedy by (I think) Sophocles.

(Classics major.  Can you tell?)
Title: Re: Alaric's & Richenda's children
Post by: tenworld on March 10, 2008, 05:07:24 pm
another bit of name trivia.  I was looking up Joan of Arc after watching the 1999 movie.  The name she actually signed was Jehanne, so Kelson's mother would be named after St Joan (except she wasnt canonized until 1920 and lived about 200 after Kelson's time).  which leads to the thought that Jeane d'arc could have been so effective because she was actually Deryni (and thats why the English really burned her)
Title: Re: Alaric's & Richenda's children
Post by: JulianneTK on March 10, 2008, 08:35:09 pm
I hear a story idea in there.... 
Title: Re: Alaric's & Richenda's children
Post by: Brother Cadfael on March 21, 2008, 06:06:50 am
Eh, excuse me! hate to break this Francophonic love in up, but the English actually burned St Joan, the Maid of Orleans (a title in witchcraft, as I understand it) at the behest of the French.  She did have a few enemies in the French camp as well as the English after all.

As for 'Phoni names (sorry I could resist), I'm not a great fan of the Greek names.  Latin ones like Honoria (Honour - yes it is spelt with a u) and Lucinda (Beautiful Light) are great and while I'm not really sure why anyone would want to name their daughter after the blind: Cecelia is the name of my cousin (Celtic/Gaelic meaning of Cecelia is 'blind').
Title: Re: Alaric's & Richenda's children
Post by: JulianneTK on March 21, 2008, 06:58:01 pm
No Francophiles and no love-in. Me, I am an unabashed Anglophile and Celtophile (is that a word?) 

       I was speaking of a Deryni story where Jeanne d'Arc was Deryni...  Maybe even suggesting it for Deryni Archives the Zine.  I would guess that tenworld was thinking something similar...

     "Maid" is a title of current usage among pagans. It may or may not have historical precedent. I say that because there is very little written material concerning historical witchcraft/Wicca.  Most of what we have was written by the "other side" so to speak, the courts judging accused witches for black/evil magic.  Although it seems likely that "Maid" would have a title, given that as far back as the Greeks, and possibly further back, the Triple Goddess was viewed as Maiden, Mother, Crone.

      Greek names, Latin names.  Some of those Biblical names can get pretty bad, too!  Male names: Nimrod, Arphaxad, Hazarmaveth, Shechem, and I could keep going.  Female names:Keturah, Oholibamah, Basemath-- and that's only the Old Testament.  The N.T. gets some even better....
Title: Re: Alaric's & Richenda's children
Post by: Elkhound on March 22, 2008, 09:52:33 pm
Cecelia is the name of my cousin (Celtic/Gaelic meaning of Cecelia is 'blind').

Caecus means 'blind' in Latin also. 

St. Cecilia (note the slightly different spelling) is the patron saint of music; her name, however, comes from caelum, meaning sky or heaven.
Title: Re: Alaric's & Richenda's children
Post by: Elkhound on March 22, 2008, 10:01:47 pm
Eh, excuse me! hate to break this Francophonic love in up, but the English actually burned St Joan, the Maid of Orleans (a title in witchcraft, as I understand it) at the behest of the French.  She did have a few enemies in the French camp as well as the English after all.

As for 'Phoni names (sorry I could resist), I'm not a great fan of the Greek names.  Latin ones like Honoria (Honour - yes it is spelt with a u) and Lucinda (Beautiful Light) are great and while I'm not really sure why anyone would want to name their daughter after the blind: Cecelia is the name of my cousin (Celtic/Gaelic meaning of Cecelia is 'blind').
Title: Re: Alaric's & Richenda's children
Post by: Shiral on March 24, 2008, 06:17:04 pm
Someone has to hold up the honor of the Francophiles. It may as well be me.  :) Joan of Arc was sufficiently unusual to have collected some enemies wherever she went.  A French peasant girl who claimed the angels had spoken to her puts on armor and leads armies--doesn't happen every day, especially not in medieval times.  A woman, presuming to lead an army would be a topic of consternation right there even without her claim the angels spoke to her. Joan must have been very persuasive and appeared very sure of herself to get as far as she did.

   It woudl be interesting to write a story based in Bremagne.  From what I understand of Katherine's description, Bremagne is something of a hybrid between France and Spain. If Jehana's family attitude toward Deryni is any indication, you'd better not try living openly as a Deryni in Bremagne, either. But so far, we know too little about Bremagni characters and politics to inspire many stories.

Melissa
Title: Re: Alaric's & Richenda's children
Post by: JulianneTK on March 24, 2008, 07:31:21 pm
I think that Xenia would be an interesting name for a girl.  Brion and Nigel had a sister named Xenia.

    Sadly, this name keeps making me think of Xena, Warrior Princess-- I know it's not but on the printed page, it does look a bit similar...
Title: Re: Alaric's & Richenda's children
Post by: Elkhound on July 08, 2008, 01:31:23 pm
I think that Xenia would be an interesting name for a girl.  Brion and Nigel had a sister named Xenia.

    Sadly, this name keeps making me think of Xena, Warrior Princess-- I know it's not but on the printed page, it does look a bit similar...

What an interesting idea for a crossover!   ;D
Title: Re: Alaric's & Richenda's children
Post by: Aquinas on April 15, 2009, 05:45:11 am
On the subject of unfortunate names

Duke Graham III MacEwan's eldest daughter is called Sigarette! Mind you following that logic Tiparilla (his second daughter) sounds like a brand of small cigar!

 ;D
Title: Re: Alaric's & Richenda's children
Post by: JulianneTK on April 16, 2009, 04:45:53 pm
Don't forget that in the bottom of Pandora's box, after all of the bad stuff escaped, was Hope.

And Hope can be the worst of all, if you think about it....

It can also be the best.
Title: Re: Alaric's & Richenda's children
Post by: JulianneTK on April 16, 2009, 04:49:07 pm
On the subject of unfortunate names

Duke Graham III MacEwan's eldest daughter is called Sigarette! Mind you following that logic Tiparilla (his second daughter) sounds like a brand of small cigar!

 ;D


Oh, no, you're kidding!!!!!! 

Title: Re: Alaric's & Richenda's children
Post by: TerrierMom on April 22, 2009, 12:47:26 am
My parents wanted to name me after one of my grandmothers. Dad wanted me to be named for his mother, Zalia. But Mom won the debate, and I was named after her mother instead. Much happier to have wound up  as Elisabeth than I would have been as Zalia!
Title: Re: Alaric's & Richenda's children
Post by: Aquinas on June 02, 2009, 01:00:10 pm
How about: Unless Jesus Christ Had Died For Thee Thou Hadst Been Damned Barbon (or Barebone) who is either the English merchant and Member of Parliament better known by the far more "normal" name Praise God Barbon or his son later called Nicholas!!

Praise God's brother was called Fear God (who wrote dirty poetry!) and another member of the family possibly Nicholas' brother was called Jesus Christ Came Into The World To Save.
Title: Re: Alaric's & Richenda's children
Post by: DesertRose on June 04, 2009, 09:39:32 pm
My parents wanted to name me after one of my grandmothers. Dad wanted me to be named for his mother, Zalia. But Mom won the debate, and I was named after her mother instead. Much happier to have wound up  as Elisabeth than I would have been as Zalia!

My ex-husband and I had a similar debate about our daughter's name.  I told her later what I had wanted to name her (Adrienne Elizabeth, which my ex shot down because "Adrienne sounds snobby and Elizabeth is too old-fashioned") and she told me I should have told her father to take a long walk off a short pier and named her that anyway.

As for me, I got stuck with family names all around.  My first name was my father's great-aunt's name, and my middle name is also my mother's, my maternal grandmother's, and my maternal great-great-grandmother's.