The Worlds of Katherine Kurtz

The Deryni Series => The Childe Morgan => Topic started by: Elkhound on March 25, 2009, 03:50:06 pm

Title: Alaric's Morgan Relatives
Post by: Elkhound on March 25, 2009, 03:50:06 pm
In "Childe Morgan" he seemed to have a lot of them, but they aren't mentioned in the Deryni or Kelson books much, if at all.  Surely they aren't all dead?
Title: Re: Alaric's Morgan Relatives
Post by: derynifanatic64 on March 25, 2009, 07:31:46 pm
I'm sure some of Alaric's relatives are still alive.  Since the Deryni/Kelson books were written first, KK didn't mention them beyond Duncan, Kevin, Jared, and Bronwyn.  That's why the latest books were written so we could learn more about Alaric, his family, and hopefully soon his friendship with Brion.
Title: Re: Alaric's Morgan Relatives
Post by: Elkhound on March 26, 2009, 12:59:27 am
That's one explanation. 

Another is that KK will come up with some catastrophe that wiped out Clan Morgan.
Title: Re: Alaric's Morgan Relatives
Post by: Braniana on March 27, 2009, 07:53:30 pm
Seems that Vera and Jared were involved in the children's upbringing, based on Bronwyn living with them.  And wasn't Alaric sent to court after Kenneth's death?  Might just be that the family wasn't very involved in Alaric's and Bronwyn's lives after they were orphaned.
Title: Re: Alaric's Morgan Relatives
Post by: BalanceTheEnergies on April 03, 2009, 04:35:42 am
On his father's side, there are half-sisters from Kenneth's first marriage (Zoe is in In the King's Service, and the others are named), but as girls they likely either married or took the veil. I think they're also human, so they might escape notice, storywise. I seem to recall Kenneth mourning the fact that his other sons were either stillborn or died in infancy. What I cannot recall offhand is whether Zoe remarried after losing Ahern to the peritonitis.

Vera and Alyce were keeping their true relationship a secret, but it is noted in the Codex that Vera provided what magical education Alaric, Bronwyn and Duncan received, at least so long as they lived in the McLain household--I cannot recall if Alyce specifically asked Vera to do this when she was dying, or if she and Vera discussed such a contingency when Alyce was preganant with Bronwyn. Also, Jared being Duke of Cassan after his father, he would have a suitable household for the young Duke of Corwyn to learn something of his future role as a temporal ruler. Add to that Kenneth's own duties for the king, and it becomes easy to see why Alaric didn't spend much time with the Morgan side of the family.
Title: Re: Alaric's Morgan Relatives
Post by: DesertRose on April 03, 2009, 09:23:43 am
To add to what BalanceTheEnergies said, I don't think Kenneth outlived Alyce by too many years, either, so that may be another reason that Alaric didn't spend much time with his Morgan family.  If Alaric and Bronwyn were already staying with Vera and Jared when Kenneth died, leaving them there may have been a case of "if it ain't broke, don't fix it."

That being said, I would like to know what happened to Geill and Alazais and especially Zoe, since we actually got to know Zoe a bit.
Title: Re: Alaric's Morgan Relatives
Post by: Shiral on April 03, 2009, 06:12:15 pm
To add to what BalanceTheEnergies said, I don't think Kenneth outlived Alyce by too many years, either, so that may be another reason that Alaric didn't spend much time with his Morgan family.  If Alaric and Bronwyn were already staying with Vera and Jared when Kenneth died, leaving them there may have been a case of "if it ain't broke, don't fix it."

That being said, I would like to know what happened to Geill and Alazais and especially Zoe, since we actually got to know Zoe a bit.

How soon we forget.  :) Zoe  married Jovett Chandos in Childe Morgan.  She and Jovett had a son named Kailan Peter Chandos who's about three years younger than Alaric Morgan.

According to chapter three of  CM, Geill Morgan married a knight in Duke Jared's service around 1092. As CM ends Alazais was at the convent Arc en Ciel, but we'll have to wait to find out more.

I too wonder if Jovett and Zoe have been minding Alaric's holdings in Lendour all this time, and just haven't had a reason to come into the earlier stories. By this time, maybe their son is minding things as regent in Lendour.  I really hope no nasty archbishops found out Jovett was Deryni and forced him to either flee or had him killed.

Melissa
Title: Re: Alaric's Morgan Relatives
Post by: BalanceTheEnergies on April 20, 2009, 04:59:21 am
Quote
How soon we forget.

'Fraid so. I loaned nearly all of my KK books (and a number of others) and did not get them back. ) I think I have ITKS somewhere...) Also, I have yet to buy CM or the Codex, so I have to borrow from the library when I want to reread.  :-\  I've put editions (preferably hardbound) of all the Deryni books on my Amazon wish list, but on my paltry income, the list is likely to remain wishful thinking.

To continue Shiral's thought about Zoe and Jovett, they may also have had some work to do administering Jovett's lands (if any), and I have no doubt King Donal advised Prince Brion to avail himself of Jovett's talents, much as Donal seemingly had plans for Se until Marie's death prompted him to his path with the Anvillers. Of course, any number of things could complicate their lives, especially with people like the de Nores about.
Title: Re: Alaric's Morgan Relatives
Post by: morgan on June 21, 2009, 07:28:05 am
I've just started to read this book and I see, too, that Morgan seems to have 3 older half-sister (plus other dead), but in the Codex there isn't any trace of them.
Is it possible that this 3, that seem to love their brother, haven't any part in the other books?
Title: Re: Alaric's Morgan Relatives
Post by: Elkhound on June 21, 2009, 12:37:31 pm
That's why I suspect that there will be some sort of catastrophe that will wipe out the rest of the family.   A plague?  A fire?
Title: Re: Alaric's Morgan Relatives
Post by: Braniana on June 24, 2009, 05:57:09 pm
I could be wrong, but wasn't there talk of another Codex edition, once the CM trilogy was done, to add that genealogical/event information?
Title: Re: Alaric's Morgan Relatives
Post by: Elkhound on June 25, 2009, 03:13:53 pm
That's certainly possible.  Is KK going to close the Deryni universe after CM is complete?  I've not invested in a copy of the Codex because I don't want to have to go out and buy a new one a few years down the line when the old one is superceded.
Title: Re: Alaric's Morgan Relatives
Post by: Braniana on June 26, 2009, 12:00:24 am
I think she has more stories she wants to tell.  Orin/Jodotha, a book in 948, who know.
Title: Re: Alaric's Morgan Relatives
Post by: Elkhound on June 26, 2009, 09:25:41 am
I think she has more stories she wants to tell.  Orin/Jodotha, a book in 948, who know.

I hope so.  There are so many stories TO tell, considering all the loose ends she's left.
Title: Re: Alaric's Morgan Relatives
Post by: Elkhound on June 13, 2015, 05:58:16 pm
I just finished KD, and it seems that you can't go three steps without tripping over some relative of Alaric's.  From the Kelson books, I was under the impression that Alaric was, aside from Duncan and Bronwyn, all alone in the world.
Title: Re: Alaric's Morgan Relatives
Post by: Evie on June 13, 2015, 08:57:33 pm
I just finished KD, and it seems that you can't go three steps without tripping over some relative of Alaric's.  From the Kelson books, I was under the impression that Alaric was, aside from Duncan and Bronwyn, all alone in the world.

By the time of Deryni Rising, he quite likely was, whether due to deaths or deliberate isolation from those too close a connection with him might end up harming, etc. I'll let your mind sort through the probable implications of all that, given the preponderance of people like Loris, Darby, and DeNore in power during those intervening years. Bronwyn would have been impossible for him to disassociate from, of course, being too widely known as his sister, and Duncan has the advantage of being both a Duke's son and (as far as the world knows) only distantly related to Alaric. Even as rabidly anti-Deryni a man as Alexander Darby never suspected that Duncan might be Deryni when he ordained him. An elderly aunt, on the other hand, could easily have died a natural death in the interim, and as for his other human Morgan relations, they lack even the few protections that Duncan and Bronwyn had. Anything could have happened to them before the opening of DR, from violent deaths to simply fading as unobtrusively into the background as possible in order to survive.

Of those closest to Morgan, Sir Se would have had the best chance of both remaining alive and close(ish) to Morgan, but it's quite likely he died young, with Vera also dying not long after, since Morgan grew up without receiving proper training. (KK has confirmed this even though TKD ends before these events happened, but we can also extrapolate that they died young from things said in the Deryni Chronicles and from Morgan's and Duncan's incomplete training.) But Sir Se is also an Anviller, so who knows what sort of dire fate he might have ended up with just in the course of normal duties, if not during some return trip to Gwynedd to visit young Morgan. As mentioned above, consider what is already known and let your mind fill in the blanks of what likely happened to all of his family and close childhood associations from there.
Title: Re: Alaric's Morgan Relatives
Post by: janetaba on June 13, 2015, 09:11:07 pm
Quote
How soon we forget.

'Fraid so. I loaned nearly all of my KK books (and a number of others) and did not get them back. ) I think I have ITKS somewhere...) Also, I have yet to buy CM or the Codex, so I have to borrow from the library when I want to reread.  :-\  I've put editions (preferably hardbound) of all the Deryni books on my Amazon wish list, but on my paltry income, the list is likely to remain wishful thinking.

I just ordered two books to replace two that I've misplaced. I am eagerly awaiting Saint Camber and Camber the Heretic in hardback to go with the Camber of Culdi in hardback that I found in a thrift store a few years back. The two that I've misplaced are Camber of Culdi and Saint Camber in paperback. I loaned them to dear hubbie, and now we can't find them.
Title: Re: Alaric's Morgan Relatives
Post by: Laurna on June 13, 2015, 11:15:06 pm
I just finished KD, and it seems that you can't go three steps without tripping over some relative of Alaric's.  From the Kelson books, I was under the impression that Alaric was, aside from Duncan and Bronwyn, all alone in the world.
as for his other human Morgan relations, they lack even the few protections that Duncan and Bronwyn had. Anything could have happened to them before the opening of DR, from violent deaths to simply fading as unobtrusively into the background as possible in order to survive.


Alaric's father was known to be a good man, human, and in the favor of the king. Alaric's three elder half-sisters are human and each married quietly to live away from the social problems that face Alaric each day. Geill married a knight under Duke Jared's protection, thereby her children should have a similar protection that Duncan had, as long as they don't go boasting in Rhemuth about their Deryni Uncle. I am sure those kids were kept in Cassan far away from the capital and from Corwyn. I worry about the youngest half-sister Alazais, her husband Llion and their children. Llion was very close to Alaric and something ill-fated could have very easily befell the residence of Morganhall. I hope not! As for Zoe and Jovett, their children are half-Deryni. Jovett should have had a descent training before Ahern died. Therefore, he should have been able to teach his children. So why not help young Alaric, too? Either they were forced into hiding or Lendour was not as protected a Castle as I hope that it should be. Someday, KK may give us an answer.
Title: Re: Alaric's Morgan Relatives
Post by: Elkhound on June 15, 2015, 09:20:22 am
Perhaps now that Kelson is safely married off and Alaric has his heir-and-a-spare, a Morgan Family Reunion is in order.
Title: Re: Alaric's Morgan Relatives
Post by: tenworld on June 16, 2015, 09:27:43 am
I always had an impression of Lendour as this mysterious mist hidden remote castle.  Perhaps that was done with Deryni magic and Alaric's relatives are helping but in the background, just as Denis was doing in Rhemuth.
Title: Re: Alaric's Morgan Relatives
Post by: Laurna on June 16, 2015, 12:06:21 pm
I always had an impression of Lendour as this mysterious mist hidden remote castle.  Perhaps that was done with Deryni magic...

Tenworld. I love your impression. I agree that the whole Lendour mountain range is a rough landscape, often shrouded in mist. Mists of magic? Mythology plays it's own games on the unsuspecting.  ;D
Title: Re: Alaric's Morgan Relatives
Post by: Demercia on June 21, 2015, 03:51:03 pm
I find it entirely plausible that Alaric drifted a bit apart from his Morgan relatives, without there being any fall out, or necessary catastrophe.   He, Duncan, Bronwyn and Kevin seem to have formed a sort of (metaphorical) magic circle in adolescence, and given the distances and lack of communication it would be easy for other bonds to become less important.  Especially as Alaric grew into his ducal responsibilities, which came through his mother.  It would be natural for the links with Llion to lessen as Llion had his own children, especially as I can imagine Llion being humble enough to allow Jared to step into the role of substitute father, reasoning that he was better placed to help Alaric understand the role of a Duke.  And none of his Morgan relatives, even those half Deryni, would really have been able to appreciate the strain of being an outed Deryni in the hot house of the court.   It is understandable why he would turn more and more to Duncan, especially as Duncan had his own reasons for needing someone who understood. And then there is the complexity  of his friendship with Bryon.  But, having said all that, I think it is also possible to doubt if Alaric really was as isolated as he wants to feel in DR, he does have rather a talent for self-dramatisation which may not entirely reflect reality.   
Title: Re: Alaric's Morgan Relatives
Post by: Elkhound on June 21, 2015, 06:41:57 pm
But, having said all that, I think it is also possible to doubt if Alaric really was as isolated as he wants to feel in DR, he does have rather a talent for self-dramatisation which may not entirely reflect reality.

One forgets how young Alaric is; he's not that much more than an adolescent himself when he's trying to mentor Kelson.  (In one of the "Dear Abby" letters, I had K describe his late father's ward as 'a bit too old to be my big brother, but not quite old enough to be my uncle, but the relationship is a bit of both.')  I suppose his wearing black would be the equivalent of what today we'd call 'going all emo.'

I still think that holding a Morgan Family Reunion at the Castle might be a good idea.  Perhaps Richenda could suggest it--she is looking through accounts of his early life an noticing all those Morgan relatives, "What became of them, dear?  Surely they aren't all dead--and those who are surely have descendants?"  "Well, I've just sort of lost track of them. . ."  "Well, now that we have established a family of our own, it is time that Bryony and Kelric start meeting their cousins. "
Title: Re: Alaric's Morgan Relatives
Post by: Shiral on June 21, 2015, 06:46:20 pm
I find it entirely plausible that Alaric drifted a bit apart from his Morgan relatives, without there being any fall out, or necessary catastrophe.   He, Duncan, Bronwyn and Kevin seem to have formed a sort of (metaphorical) magic circle in adolescence, and given the distances and lack of communication it would be easy for other bonds to become less important.  Especially as Alaric grew into his ducal responsibilities, which came through his mother.  It would be natural for the links with Llion to lessen as Llion had his own children, especially as I can imagine Llion being humble enough to allow Jared to step into the role of substitute father, reasoning that he was better placed to help Alaric understand the role of a Duke.  And none of his Morgan relatives, even those half Deryni, would really have been able to appreciate the strain of being an outed Deryni in the hot house of the court.   It is understandable why he would turn more and more to Duncan, especially as Duncan had his own reasons for needing someone who understood. And then there is the complexity  of his friendship with Bryon.  But, having said all that, I think it is also possible to doubt if Alaric really was as isolated as he wants to feel in DR, he does have rather a talent for self-dramatisation which may not entirely reflect reality.

Morgan also may have done it to protect them, insofar as it was possible.  So they could say  "Oh yes, he's a relative, but we never see him these days...."

Melissa
Title: Re: Alaric's Morgan Relatives
Post by: Evie on June 21, 2015, 07:02:36 pm
Maybe when Kelson was a little boy, Alaric was just out of adolescence, but by the time DR begins, he is 29 years old. Definitely well beyond adolescence at that point, especially in a culture that considered Kelson a full legal adult--albeit a young one--by 14.
Title: Re: Alaric's Morgan Relatives
Post by: Demercia on June 22, 2015, 01:00:08 am
Maybe when Kelson was a little boy, Alaric was just out of adolescence, but by the time DR begins, he is 29 years old. Definitely well beyond adolescence at that point, especially in a culture that considered Kelson a full legal adult--albeit a young one--by 14.
The perils of clumsy phrasing :). What I intended to imply is that a pattern that was set  in Alaric's adolescence.
Title: Re: Alaric's Morgan Relatives
Post by: Elkhound on June 22, 2015, 07:29:19 am
Maybe when Kelson was a little boy, Alaric was just out of adolescence, but by the time DR begins, he is 29 years old. Definitely well beyond adolescence at that point, especially in a culture that considered Kelson a full legal adult--albeit a young one--by 14.
The perils of clumsy phrasing :). What I intended to imply is that a pattern that was set  in Alaric's adolescence.
Also, because he was forced into an adult role far too young even by the standards of his time, he may have reverted once the crisies were over.  Much as Kelson did--at his coronation, during the Mearan Crisis, during the Connal affair he behaved like a young man much older than his years--and then in KKB turned into a whiney brat.
Title: Re: Alaric's Morgan Relatives
Post by: derynifanatic64 on March 22, 2016, 06:45:03 pm
I will remain optimistic and will believe that Alaric's half-sisters and their families are all alive and doing well by KKB.