The Worlds of Katherine Kurtz

The Deryni Series => The Histories of King Kelson => Topic started by: Jodotha on July 21, 2008, 03:50:36 pm

Title: Loose Ends
Post by: Jodotha on July 21, 2008, 03:50:36 pm
I am wondering when we rediscover the "switch" that was used to hide Deryni by Rhys. Lot's of 'half' Deryni could be whole, and lots of humans could be Deryni. Will be very interesting. Also, when the family went into hiding, with Cinhil ~ When do we rediscover this place? When do we rediscover the hidden ruins in Grecotha?
Title: Re: Loose Ends
Post by: derynifanatic64 on July 30, 2008, 07:39:57 pm
We'll probably find out should Katherine ever write a trilogy that takes place, say 10 years, after "King Kelson's Bride".  I would like to have the ruins under Grecotha rediscovered.  There was one passage down there that was completely blocked by debris.  We'll just have to wait.
Title: Re: Loose Ends
Post by: BalanceTheEnergies on January 28, 2009, 02:10:16 pm
Quote
We'll probably find out should Katherine ever write a trilogy that takes place, say 10 years, after King Kelson's Bride.

Quite so. I'm sure there are many loose ends our heroes would wish to pursue once the crises die down and they can set about the business of conducting research and establishing scholae. Besides, there are so many interesting ways things can be revealed. Suppose Duncan was administering Extreme Unction to someone in the master bedroom at Sheele and found part of the floor faintly tingling?  ;)  If memory serves, the Codex states the portal was locked against all but blood relations when Evaine and the rest went into exile.
Title: Re: Loose Ends
Post by: DesertRose on January 28, 2009, 05:55:54 pm
I haven't checked my copy of the Codex, but it says in Camber the Heretic and Deryni Magic that Evaine locked the Sheele portal to anybody but blood relations when it became clear that it was no longer safe for Deryni that close to the capital.
Title: Re: Loose Ends
Post by: BalanceTheEnergies on January 29, 2009, 02:33:15 pm
Such was my recollection. I suggested the sacrament as a legitimate way to get Duncan into the bedroom (which is where I think the portal was located). Then too, (again according to the Codex) Morgan was given the chairmanship of a committee set up to explore settling property claims of old Deryni families who were ousted after the Restoration. Who's to say how much travel that might involve?

This line of thought also makes me wonder if some of the Camberian Council might think better of our favourite half-breeds if they knew them to be descendants of Camber. Vivienne has passed on, Sofiana is kin by marriage (via Richenda), Barrett marries Jehana, and I'm sure Laran's curiosity is far from satisfied. Much depends on who takes the next open seat....
Title: Re: Loose Ends
Post by: Braniana on February 01, 2009, 04:47:56 pm
I believe that the Codex says that Matyas takes the vacant seat.  He, clearly, has many reasons to like both Kelson and Alaric.
Title: Re: Loose Ends
Post by: tenworld on February 04, 2009, 04:18:52 pm
I too want to see the revalation that Morgan, Duncan, Kelson and a few others are direct descendants of Evaine/camber.
especially I want to see Arilan's reaction :)

While I dont want the books to end, the scene where they all learn could be a fitting last chapter
Title: Re: Loose Ends
Post by: BalanceTheEnergies on February 04, 2009, 11:44:35 pm
I wouldn't mind having things come full circle. The Codex refers to the Pax Kelsona, so perhaps our heroes will get a respite that will enable them to figure out that old altar under Grecotha, among other things...
Title: Re: Loose Ends
Post by: Camber on February 21, 2009, 01:31:28 pm
I see the suppression of the Michaelines as something akin to the suppression of the Knights Templar, even though the Mike's metamorphosed in the the "Knight of the Anvil" outside of Gwynedd.  It would also be nice if at somepoint they were invited back/returned to the 11 Kingdoms with the body of knowledge that they took with them.  Perhaps they, in conjunction with Kelson/Duncan/Morgan would be  able to find and/excavate Grecotha and begin its restoration towards its place in academe with the direct connection of Kelson to Camber as one of its first "discoveries".  Am I stretching this too far?
Title: Re: Loose Ends
Post by: derynifanatic64 on March 29, 2009, 03:56:52 pm
Along with excavating under Grecotha, maybe someone could do the same at the ruins of St. Neot's.  Since St. Neot's was a major Deryni schola/religious house, there could be an underground chamber/secret library hidden below the main altar as well.
Title: Re: Loose Ends
Post by: Elkhound on March 31, 2009, 11:00:45 am
If you'll look in the Chat Log, you'll see that KK did not answer the question about a post-KKB book.

There should be at least one; there are so many loose ends afte KKB.
Title: Re: Loose Ends
Post by: BalanceTheEnergies on April 03, 2009, 04:40:31 am
The Codex has Teymuraz going to Byzantium, marrying, and siring offspring. Perhaps a Byzantine plot against Gwynedd and Torenth, a decade or two later?
Title: Re: Loose Ends
Post by: Elkhound on April 03, 2009, 10:33:46 pm
The Codex has Teymuraz going to Byzantium, marrying, and siring offspring. Perhaps a Byzantine plot against Gwynedd and Torenth, a decade or two later?

I like that idea.  If Gwynedd and Torenth were to face a common enemy, that would do a great deal to put the last nail into their traditional animosity.
Title: Re: Loose Ends
Post by: BalanceTheEnergies on April 20, 2009, 04:39:27 am
Quote
If Gwynedd and Torenth were to face a common enemy, that would do a great deal to put the last nail into their traditional animosity.

It might, but I suspect not without a very prickly period first. The bad blood between Gwynedd and Torenth goes back over four centuries. The threat from outside, and the intermarriages noted in the Codex (Liam to wed a relative of Kelson's and either Rory or Payne to wed a relative of Liam's-I don't have my own copy of the Codex, and my recall is fuzzy at best) might help, but it might take some fighting first, with true rapprochement only coming as members of both the Gwyneddian and Torenthi camps take each other's measure--seeing their old foes holding up well in combat, or otherwise demonstrating loyalty to the new joint cause. And really, that's largely how the Deryni regain their place in Gwynedd, isn't it? "By their fruits, you shall know them..."
Title: Re: Loose Ends
Post by: derynifanatic64 on January 23, 2010, 10:10:24 pm
The Codex has Teymuraz going to Byzantium, marrying, and siring offspring. Perhaps a Byzantine plot against Gwynedd and Torenth, a decade or two later?
Thorne Hagen (via the Codex) gave Teymuraz refuge after his failed attempt to kill Matyas.  If the Camberian Council found out, they might decide to attempt to punish him.
Title: Re: Loose Ends
Post by: DesertRose on January 25, 2010, 09:17:37 pm
Quote
...The threat from outside, and the intermarriages noted in the Codex (Liam to wed a relative of Kelson's and either Rory or Payne to wed a relative of Liam's-I don't have my own copy of the Codex, and my recall is fuzzy at best)...

According to Codex, Liam marries Eirian, Nigel's and Meraude's daughter (thus Kelson's first cousin), and Payne marries Stanisha, Liam's sister.

DesertRose, the encyclopedia-of-trivia-brain. :D
Title: Re: Loose Ends
Post by: Elkhound on January 26, 2010, 10:24:28 am
What do Royalty and Rednecks have in common?  Marrying their cousins!
Title: Re: Loose Ends
Post by: derynifanatic64 on September 26, 2010, 04:10:45 pm
I've wondered whatever happened to the Michaeline's secret underground haven from "Camber of Culdi" that they used before deposing Imre.  Does it still exist?  Do the "Servants of Saint Camber" know about it?
Title: Re: Loose Ends
Post by: Raksha the Demon on September 27, 2014, 07:13:33 pm
Quote
...The threat from outside, and the intermarriages noted in the Codex (Liam to wed a relative of Kelson's and either Rory or Payne to wed a relative of Liam's-I don't have my own copy of the Codex, and my recall is fuzzy at best)...

According to Codex, Liam marries Eirian, Nigel's and Meraude's daughter (thus Kelson's first cousin), and Payne marries Stanisha, Liam's sister.

DesertRose, the encyclopedia-of-trivia-brain. :D

I think that the Torenthi nobility, to say the least, might object to the marriage of Stanisha, who is a princess of Torenth, to the third son of the King of Gwynedd's uncle.  Payne won't even get Carthmoor.  Wouldn't that be considered sort of a social comedown for Stanisha, and cause some resentment among those who might already be less than thrilled by their new king's being so chummy with the King of Gwynedd after 200+ years of enmity?

Title: Re: Loose Ends
Post by: Jerusha on September 29, 2014, 08:48:19 am
Kelson creates Payne the Duke of Travlum, so Stanisha will have sufficient rank in Gwynedd.
Title: Re: Loose Ends
Post by: Evie on September 29, 2014, 09:12:49 am
Yes.  Payne may not be the direct Haldane heir, but he is still a Prince of the blood, which makes him a Royal Duke once he is created Duke of Travlum.  That should be a high enough lineage to satisfy any Princess unless she (or her relatives) refuse to consider any match but a King or future King for her.  And they'd surely be aware that there would nearly always be more princesses in the Eleven Kingdoms to marry off than available Kings or direct heirs in any given generation of royals.  Not every princess can expect to be a queen someday. (In the case of Richenda's parents, her mother was a princess but her father was a baron.  But she wasn't the heiress, plus it was quite likely a love match--either that, or Richenda's father must have done something to really get in good with the former King of Andelon!--so perhaps that could explain how a lowly baron could aspire to wed a princess.)  So hopefully the newer generation of Torenthi nobles are heartily sick of two centuries of war with Gwynedd and will be agreeable to a marriage alliance between the two kingdoms, even if some of the "old guard" would rather see hostilities continue due to old habits and hatreds.  Or perhaps just because maintaining the status quo helps preserve their own personal power, even though it's against what's best for the kingdom.
Title: Re: Loose Ends
Post by: Marko on September 05, 2015, 09:49:15 pm
According to the Codex this would be the second time that a marriage between Gwynedd and Torenth would be used to try to bring peace between the two kingdoms.  In 1025 following the Battle of Killingford, Prince Jaron Haldane, Duke of Travlum, married Salentina Furstan-Festil, the daughter of Marek II, Duke of Tolan and Festilic pretender to Gwynedd.  Unfortunately she died in childbirth.  A daughter, Tamarina, survived.  Since the Codex has nothing about her other than her name in the listing for the Dukes of Travlum, she was probably in a convent prior to her father's passing in 1078.
Title: Re: Loose Ends
Post by: Laurna on September 06, 2015, 12:32:57 am
I am going to apologize for my fact listing here, but this is what I like best.

Under the heading of Marek II, we can read that Prince Marek II (born in 990) first married Diadema Countess Nesbitt. They had two sons and a daughter, only the second son survived to become Marek III Pretender of Gwynedd who was killed with his father at Killingford in 1025. In 1015, Marek II had secondly married Lady Pulcheria of Jutta and together they had one child, the Lady Salentina. After Killingford, Princess Salentina was the only surviving child of Marek II and "who was regarded by some few partisans as being the true Festilic pretender to the throne of Gwynedd while she was alive."  At the age of ten, Salentina was married to Prince Jaron Rhys Haldane Duke of Travelum; who would only be age 14 at the time of their betrothal in 1025. Salentina and Joran had a daughter, the Princess Tamarina in 1031, but then Salentina dies from child birth complications. The Torenthi  do not consider Tamarina to be their Pretender To Gwynedd because on her marring a Haldane, Salentina is said to have "no dynastic rights" and therefore for the Furstan-Fastils to find a Pretender to Gwynedd's crown, they go back several generations to Imre II's daughter, Princess Ariella, who had married Duchad Mor Count of Tigre to find four generations later, Hogan Furstan-Festil mac Tadhg, "The Marluk", and they make him the Pretender of Gwynedd. (They do not give up, do they!)

(As an aside, I am playing with Duchad Mor as one of the bad guys in the current fan-fic piece that I am writing, which may or may not ever see the light of day.)

Meanwhile, Duke Jaron lives until 1078 but has no other children. The Codex does state: "Princess Tamarina, whose issue is believed extinct,". Therefore, Tamarina must have at some point gotten married and had at least one child who-- almost like you said above, Marko--likely died before Duke Jaron in 1078; probably due to some horrible political intrigue. Since the word "believed" is used, perhaps the child was kidnapped and survived under another name.

Sorry if I bored you to tears with all those facts.
Title: Re: Loose Ends
Post by: Demercia on September 07, 2015, 07:36:29 am
Not bored at all Laurna, fascinated, and grateful for your hard work ;D
Title: Re: Loose Ends
Post by: Elkhound on September 08, 2015, 09:17:24 am

Meanwhile, Duke Jaron lives until 1078 but has no other children. The Codex does state: "Princess Tamarina, whose issue is believed extinct,". Therefore, Tamarina must have at some point gotten married and had at least one child who-- almost like you said above, Marko--likely died before Duke Jaron in 1078; probably due to some horrible political intrigue. Since the word "believed" is used, perhaps the child was kidnapped and survived under another name.

Sorry if I bored you to tears with all those facts.

Kidnapped, or perhaps sent into hiding for his/her own protection?  What if a descendant were to come forward in the Kelson-era?