The Worlds of Katherine Kurtz

FanFiction => General Information, Question, and/or Ideas => Topic started by: bronwynevaine on November 29, 2017, 07:40:56 am

Title: Mind Speech
Post by: bronwynevaine on November 29, 2017, 07:40:56 am
If two or three Deryni are communicating via Mind Speech can they be "overheard" by other Deryni?

The following scene from Maidens of Mayhem--which I am rereading for the ?th time--reminded me of the question I'd long meant to ask.

Constanza gave the young man an appraising look.  “Arilan.  Are you related to Bishop Denis Arilan?”

   “His nephew, my Lady.”

   “Ah.”  She smiled.  “Well, I suppose that would be all right.  Celsie, why don’t you accompany Sophie; Ailidh, you remain here with me in case Sophie’s family arrives, so you can fetch her back if necessary.”

   Not fair! Ailidh mindspoke to Celsie.

   I thought you’ve sworn off men?  Celsie replied, smiling to herself.

   I can still look! Ailidh retorted.

   Celsie suppressed a giggle as she followed Sophie and Sir Seisyll out of the Great Hall.


I suspect it would depend on the skill of those using Mind Speech, their mental state, and the skill of those "in range" to overhear.

Mind Speech and Calling are not the same, but in "Catalyst" young Rhys' Call is heard by more Deryni than he Sent to.  He was--for good reason--terrified.
Title: Re: Mind Speech
Post by: Evie on November 29, 2017, 08:37:53 am
I think under normal circumstances, Mind-Speech can't be overheard by others, although there might be exceptions to that rule that I can't call to mind at present.  In the scene below, the part of the conversation between Constanza and Seisyll Arilan is spoken aloud, with Sophie also present but not speaking, and only Celsie and Ailidh are commenting to each other via Mind-Speech.  Sophie, Stanzi, and Seisyll are not able to pick up on that silent exchange.  (Well, if there actually is some way to eavesdrop on it, Seisyll would probably know how, but he's not doing it here.)

Changing the text back to original formatting for clarity:

Quote

Constanza gave the young man an appraising look.  “Arilan.  Are you related to Bishop Denis Arilan?”

   “His nephew, my Lady.”

   “Ah.”  She smiled.  “Well, I suppose that would be all right.  Celsie, why don’t you accompany Sophie; Ailidh, you remain here with me in case Sophie’s family arrives, so you can fetch her back if necessary.”

   Not fair! Ailidh mindspoke to Celsie.

  I thought you’ve sworn off men?  Celsie replied, smiling to herself.

   I can still look! Ailidh retorted.

   Celsie suppressed a giggle as she followed Sophie and Sir Seisyll out of the Great Hall.
Title: Re: Mind Speech
Post by: Evie on November 29, 2017, 09:21:47 am

Mind Speech and Calling are not the same, but in "Catalyst" young Rhys' Call is heard by more Deryni than he Sent to.  He was--for good reason--terrified.

I suspect the difference between these two is that Calling is less focused than Mind-Speech, so I can see Mind-Speech inadvertently turning into Calling if someone is unable to focus their thoughts directly into another person's mind (such as in the panicked situation you mention here).  Or, of course, one can deliberately choose to Call rather than direct tightly-focused Mind-Speech to a single person.  (There are possibly canonical instances of focused but less-tightly-so private Mind-Speech conversations between more than two Deryni that I am forgetting at the moment, but I'm on meds and battling a bout of walking pneumonia at the moment, so mental clarity is not exactly my strong suit at the moment! In my fanfic, I have had a person Mind-Speak to more than one person, but usually when they are all in physical contact with each other.)
Title: Re: Mind Speech
Post by: Bynw on November 29, 2017, 09:48:57 am
I've always looked at this on the basis of how the mind-speech was done. Are the Deryni in Rapport with one another or is it just a mental broadcast (like the aforementioned calling.) If it is just the calling out then yes it could be overheard by others. If Rapport has been established between all the Deryni participating then no it cannot be overheard.
Title: Re: Mind Speech
Post by: Evie on November 29, 2017, 09:55:03 am
I've always looked at this on the basis of how the mind-speech was done. Are the Deryni in Rapport with one another or is it just a mental broadcast (like the aforementioned calling.) If it is just the calling out then yes it could be overheard by others. If Rapport has been established between all the Deryni participating then no it cannot be overheard.

And the CC also has some form of communication that seems to be similar to Calling in that it goes out to everyone on the Council, but it is tightly focused enough to reach just those minds and not broadcast to all Deryni who might happen to be in range of that Call.  But the long distances involved would seem to still make it a form of Calling rather than Mind-Speech, or at least that's how I tend to see it.  I suspect that is only possible because there is that huge crystal in the CC chamber that acts as a focus to direct that Call more precisely than would otherwise be possible.
Title: Re: Mind Speech
Post by: Laurna on November 29, 2017, 11:33:11 am
In Camber of Culdi, Earl Camber had warned Jorum and Rhys to not use Mind Speech  during their attempt to kidnap Brother Benedict, aka Cinhill, from the monastery. The thinking was that even though everyone there should have been human, it was possible that some might be part-Deryni. If they were in a state of meditation, as monks often are, the residual mental sounds of Mind Speech might be detected. Like one could hear real speech from another room. In most cases this would just be back ground noise, but in a place that silent, it might be picked up and heard.
Title: Re: Mind Speech
Post by: revanne on November 29, 2017, 11:40:50 am
In Camber of Culdi, Earl Camber had warned Jorum and Rhys to not use Mind Speech in during their attempt to steal Brother Benedict, aka Cinhill, from the monistary. The thinking was that even though every one there should have been human, but it was possible that some might be part Deryni and if they were in a state of meditation as monks often are. the residual mental sounds of Mind Speech might be detected. Like one would hear real speech from another room. In most cases this would just be back ground noise, but in a place that silent it might be picked up and heard.

I think the significant point here is that the mind speech might be picked up by those trained in meditation or indeed actually meditating - which might well be the case in a monastery even in the dead of night.
Title: Re: Mind Speech
Post by: Bynw on November 29, 2017, 05:27:57 pm
As a gamer who has played many Deryni and Deryni like characters over the years. You do have to be careful with generic mind speech. Someone is bound to hear it. Establish rapport every chance you get.
Title: Re: Mind Speech
Post by: bronwynevaine on December 01, 2017, 01:55:19 pm
Thanks to all who responded. I think I can safely assume that Mind Speech could be overheard.

P.S. Evie get well soon!
Title: Re: Mind Speech
Post by: Evie on December 01, 2017, 02:01:02 pm
Thanks to all who responded. I think I can safely assume that Mind Speech could be overheard.

P.S. Evie get well soon!

Thanks!  The antibiotic has kicked in, and I am feeling progressively better with each passing day.  :)