The Worlds of Katherine Kurtz

Zipper Sisters and Others => Rumors => Topic started by: DesertRose on October 24, 2017, 12:36:45 pm

Title: Healer's Symbol Patches
Post by: DesertRose on October 24, 2017, 12:36:45 pm
So I found a site (located here: https://www.stadriemblems.com/blog/guide-making-your-first-embroidered-patch/ ) that will make embroidered patches using a design you give them.  The prices vary depending upon how large the patch is, how complex the design is, and what percentage of the patch's area is covered in embroidery.

Re that last, if one designed a Healer's patch, one could use green fabric for the background, and thus the finished patch would need only the white hand pierced with the green eight-pointed star embroidered onto it, or vice versa for the Gabrilite-specific Healer's badge.

Not that anyone around here would want such a thing (if KK allows the use of her design, of course). . .  ;)
Title: Re: Healer's Symbol Patches
Post by: Evie on October 24, 2017, 02:55:57 pm
The miniature badge I made for KK's Rhys action figure was made from a photo of a badge that she (or one of her fans?) had used a punch needle to make.  You can buy the tool at Michaels, Hobby Lobby, or other hobby stores that sell needlecrafting accessories.  Here is a web page that gives a brief overview of how it is done: https://www.wikihow.com/Needle-Punch (https://www.wikihow.com/Needle-Punch). The front of the badge ends up with a loopy pile surface (sort of like terry cloth, but in the badge I saw, the pile was set very close together, which made it feel smoother, more like a soft carpet rather than as nubbly as a towel. Actually, some dollhouse artists use the same tool for creating miniature carpets.
Title: Re: Healer's Symbol Patches
Post by: judywward on October 25, 2017, 10:00:10 am
So do we think that the green on the Corwyn Griffin denotes Healers in the lineage?
Title: Re: Healer's Symbol Patches
Post by: revanne on October 25, 2017, 10:49:02 am
Interesting. Green in a coat of arms could originally have denoted that but as time went on and healers faded from memory the origins would have been forgotten. Having said that, there are other residents of this Castle who are more knowledgable in the noble science of heraldry and who would know whether the idea is possible in heraldric terms.
Title: Re: Healer's Symbol Patches
Post by: DesertRose on October 25, 2017, 02:45:55 pm
Well, here's a link to a list (from a company that designs modern heraldry, such as school crests and the like) of what each color symbolizes in heraldry.

https://www.fleurdelis.com/meanings.htm

And another site that seems primitive on the web-design end of things, but from my small experience with heraldry in SCA contexts, it looks like they've done their homework.

https://www.heraldryandcrests.com/pages/test

I tried but wasn't able to find a site that had the symbolism of heraldic tinctures that included a source for their assertions/conclusions.  I'd have liked to have some sort of reference material.   :-\
Title: Re: Healer's Symbol Patches
Post by: Evie on October 25, 2017, 03:47:48 pm
I don't know if there is an online source similar to the old Fox-Davies book on Heraldry that might give such references, but that would be interesting. I noticed that KK uses "tawny" (aka "tenne" or what we would call orange) as a color in Torenth's device, which the "Heraldry and Crests" link says means "worthy ambition," but years ago I heard that this color isn't used in SCA heraldry because another association with that color (in some countries, at least) was cowardice, so that definitely would not have put it high on the list of preferred colors for SCA fighters!  ;D

I doubt that the green in Corwyn's device was necessarily associated with Healer green unless that was simply the personal association with the color that the first person to bear those arms decided on when the coat of arms was created. (Or perhaps more accurately, when the herald devised the arms for a former Corwyn Healer-Duke?)  For one thing, given that there are so few heraldic colors to pick from to begin with, taking green out of the running for everyone but Healers would make little sense. And of course, once Deryni were on the outs in Gwynedd, everyone would be trying to shed those telltale green devices as quickly as possible!  ;)
Title: Re: Healer's Symbol Patches
Post by: judywward on October 25, 2017, 04:32:34 pm
What made me wonder was the line in DR, I think, that said the Corwyn arms actually defied some heraldic imagery rules. So maybe the first duke requested it because he was a healer or there were healers in the line.
Title: Re: Healer's Symbol Patches
Post by: judywward on October 25, 2017, 04:38:57 pm
To clarify,  the original duke may have chosen it for his arms because he or family was/were healers or his line originated with a healer (like maybe Rhys & Evaine?)  Not that it would be reserved for healers.
Title: Re: Healer's Symbol Patches
Post by: DesertRose on October 25, 2017, 07:04:30 pm
What made me wonder was the line in DR, I think, that said the Corwyn arms actually defied some heraldic imagery rules. So maybe the first duke requested it because he was a healer or there were healers in the line.

Yes, the Corwyn arms do defy heraldry rules, because the gryphon is green on a field of black.

Under normal rules of heraldry, one does not place a color (gules/red, sable/black, vert/green, purpure/purple, azure/blue, and tenne/orange are the ones that would have been most often used in the medieval period) on another color; color goes on metal (argent/silver and or/gold, for historical heraldry; copper has been added in modern times and appears on the heraldry of Whitehorse, Yukon Territories, Canada).

It appears that the rule of "color goes on metal, not color-on-color or metal-on-metal" was probably a convention having to do with visibility on the battlefield that ended up codified into a formal rule, even now when heraldry hasn't much to do with wars (although the US Army has a heraldic group for designing unit badges, interestingly enough).

That all being said, vert stands out on a field of sable, so while it's technically a heraldic "sin," it's not of a sort to do anything but annoy the heralds (whereas, say, a banner with a charge in vert on a field of azure might cause a battlefield-visibility issue); it'd still be pretty evident on a battlefield which flag signified the presence of His Grace of Corwyn.  :D
Title: Re: Healer's Symbol Patches
Post by: whitelaughter on October 27, 2017, 05:10:32 am
To widen the question slightly - perhaps the colors are linked to the religious orders that family members were most likely to enter, so Gabrielite green, Michaelite blue and so forth? Rather than the nobles ditching the colors, those colors could have been annexed by the orders that sprang up to replace them. Would still indicate a heritage of healing in Corwyn.