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Recent Posts

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1
Birthday Wishes / Re: Happy Birthday KK!
« Last post by jemler on Today at 05:18:58 pm »
Hope you had a happy birthday! Things were so screwy on chat last week, I completely forgot to tell you!
2
General Information, Question, and/or Ideas / Re: Pre Camber.
« Last post by DesertRose on Today at 04:59:04 pm »
Good points, both.

And yes, I have to imagine that making a silk net beaded with itty-bitty shiral crystals and large enough to cover an adult human on a bier is probably a fairly time-consuming undertaking (having done enough fiber/textile craft myself), but perhaps the Airsid or some allied group makes them just to have handy in the event of the death of somebody important enough to be thus preserved.  After all, a lot of deaths (then and now, reality or fantasy) don't always come with a lot of warning.

It really could go either way; if Orin's net is big enough, it could be that Jodotha pulled the edge over herself as she died, and if not, it could be that someone close to Jodotha (Airsid initiates, students, whatever) made a practice of keeping a few stasis nets on hand and they grabbed one to drape over her when her remains were found with Orin's.
3
General Information, Question, and/or Ideas / Re: Pre Camber.
« Last post by revanne on Today at 04:35:17 pm »
I've always envisaged her as draping the hanging edge of Orin's net over herself just as Evie suggests, both as an act of homage (echoes of touching the hem of his garment) and as a last comfort.
4
General Information, Question, and/or Ideas / Re: Pre Camber.
« Last post by Evie on Today at 04:18:46 pm »
I think if someone had found Jodotha and covered her with a second net, she would have decomposed more fully before the net was completed, unless someone just happened to have a spiral net premade already. I read the passage as meaning that Jodotha went to Orin's tomb knowing she was mortally wounded and wanting to die beside her beloved teacher, and because she was lying on the ground beside a high bier, it would have been easy enough to pull the trailing edge of Orin's net over herself without having to uncover him (and thereby remove its protection from him) at all. It would be like lying next to a table with a tablecloth on it whose edges touch or even pool on the ground on all sides.  You could easily pull just the hanging edge over yourself without disturbing anything on the table. I think she probably used the portal to get there, and as to why she didn't save that energy to Heal herself instead, it could be that she didn't have anything left to live for at that point. Even if she'd managed to survive, where would she flee to? Court wouldn't be a safe place for her, and any other home she might have would not remain a safe haven for long. Or it could just be that she knew she was bleeding out and getting weak too quickly to retain the necessary focus for such deep Healing on herself, but she had just enough focus left for one remaining Portal jump.
5
General Information, Question, and/or Ideas / Re: Pre Camber.
« Last post by DesertRose on Today at 02:32:33 pm »
Thank you for looking it up DR. I hadn't had time to do so yet.

That is very intriguing question, DR. Perhaps someone made Jobotha her own Shiral net, but then why would they not have laid her out on her own bier next to Orin's.

If Jodotha tried to clear the two princes of wrongful charges, then it seems to me that she would have been mortally wounded by the person or the person's conspirator who wanted to see the two young men removed as heirs to the kingdom. The new young wife is therefore highly suspect. The question then remains if Jodotha ever got a chance to make a plea to the king or if she was wounded before she could let out the truth.  She, herself, was a healer, so it had to be a very fatal wound. Yet one she managed to stave off long enough to get to Orin's tomb. But why go to Orin's tomb? Was she looking for solace from Orin's spirit, like that of cambers spirit. or was she looking for the black protocol that she may have guessed, or known, was buried with Orin.

So many questions left unanswered.

Well, if Jodotha has her own stasis net, it could be that whoever made it/had it made and placed it there found her body next to Orin's bier long enough after death that rigor mortis had set in (but [TMI re dead bodies ahead] obviously not too long after death, else the body would not be so well preserved by the time Evaine, Joram, and Queron find them), and rigor mortis would make it difficult to maneuver the corpse into a suitable laying-out pose the way Orin's body is situated on his bier.

(Here's where I go off into Speculation Land.  ;D) Perhaps whoever found her and made/commissioned the stasis net was a student of hers (even a fellow Airsid initiate?).  If it was a student/several students, they might not have wanted to handle her body too extensively, even allowing for the limitations imposed by a body too stiff to move too much.  They may also have felt that she died where she wanted to die and/or where she wanted her body to be placed in death.

As to exactly when and how she sustained the wound(s) that took her life, that's a good question.  She could have been in the middle of pleading with Llarik for the lives of the princes when [the second Queen/whoever didn't want Jodotha to succeed or, more likely, minions of the person(s) who wanted Llarik's sons dead] attacked her, or someone who knew she was coming to that end ambushed her before she got there at all. 

(Speculation Land Alert!)  Or, she could have succeeded in getting Llarik to reconsider executing his sons, and someone who didn't want the princes to live set up an attack against her on her way back and then pinned the blame on someone else (the princes themselves don't seem a very likely culprit for fall guys; it just doesn't make sense that they'd kill a powerful, well-trained Deryni Healer who'd just saved their bacon, but it sounds like that court was. . .interesting, and there might have been others on whom to blame Jodotha's death), which might have made Llarik (who seems a bit hot-tempered from what little we know of him) change his mind again, because we do know he did in fact execute his sons/the princes in the end.

And as to why Jodotha dragged herself to Orin's burial place rather than attempting to Heal herself with her dying energy, if she did make it to Llarik but failed to save the princes, perhaps she felt she'd failed in a very important task and didn't have the will to Heal herself even if she technically had the energy and ability to do so.

I would imagine if anyone had known what was in those scrolls that were buried in Orin's arms and/or that they were there at all, it would have been Jodotha, though.
6
General Information, Question, and/or Ideas / Re: Pre Camber.
« Last post by Laurna on Today at 01:04:12 pm »
Thank you for looking it up DR. I hadn't had time to do so yet.

That is very intriguing question, DR. Perhaps someone made Jobotha her own Shiral net, but then why would they not have laid her out on her own bier next to Orin's.

If Jodotha tried to clear the two princes of wrongful charges, then it seems to me that she would have been mortally wounded by the person or the person's conspirator who wanted to see the two young men removed as heirs to the kingdom. The new young wife is therefore highly suspect. The question then remains if Jodotha ever got a chance to make a plea to the king or if she was wounded before she could let out the truth.  She, herself, was a healer, so it had to be a very fatal wound. Yet one she managed to stave off long enough to get to Orin's tomb. But why go to Orin's tomb? Was she looking for solace from Orin's spirit, like that of cambers spirit. or was she looking for the black protocol that she may have guessed, or known, was buried with Orin.

So many questions left unanswered.
7
General Information, Question, and/or Ideas / Re: Pre Camber.
« Last post by DesertRose on Today at 12:39:29 pm »
As I recall, Jodotha was found beside Orin's bier, not in a proper burial place of her own. I got the impression from where and how she was found that she knew she was mortally wounded, and therefore used the last of her energy to make her way back to Orin so she could die by his side, and then lay there undiscovered for centuries.

I don't have my books handy and can't check, but IIRC, Evaine, Joram and Queron found both Orin's and Jodotha's bodies intact under stasis nets made of purple silk thread strung with little shiral beads.  I think his bier was higher than hers, though.

Okay, it registered on me that while I don't have my paper copies of the books handy, I do have The Harrowing of Gwynedd on my Kindle app on my phone, so I went and looked up the relevant passage.

Evie is right, in that Jodotha's body was found beside Orin's bier (and not on one of her own, like I thought for whatever odd reason), with evidence of having sustained a mortal wound (bloodstains on her robe/cloak), but both bodies were intact and under a stasis net of purple silk cord strung with shiral beads.  However, in another mystery, the passage doesn't make it particularly clear whether she was under the same net as Orin, or whether someone found her body there fairly soon after her death and made a stasis net for her but left her as she'd died.

I wouldn't think Jodotha herself would have disturbed the stasis net over Orin's body, not even in her dying moments, especially given that he predeceased her by twenty-four years.  But that begs the question, were they both under the same net (and if so, who draped it over her body?), or did someone find her body, perhaps leave her as she was at her time of death (perhaps due to rigor mortis and/or an unwillingness to handle her body overmuch), and make Jodotha her own stasis net?

Both bodies were intact enough when Evaine, Joram, and Queron found them that not only could they see the colors of their clothing and hair, but facial features were still so clear that Evaine recognizes Jodotha from the portrait of her in a locket on Orin's body.  No stasis spell (at least not that we've seen so far in canon) would last several hundred years without the shiral-and-silk net.

So much to ponder. . .

Edited to correct a formatting boo-boo.
8
General Information, Question, and/or Ideas / Re: Pre Camber.
« Last post by DesertRose on October 21, 2017, 11:52:18 am »
As I recall, Jodotha was found beside Orin's bier, not in a proper burial place of her own. I got the impression from where and how she was found that she knew she was mortally wounded, and therefore used the last of her energy to make her way back to Orin so she could die by his side, and then lay there undiscovered for centuries.

I don't have my books handy and can't check, but IIRC, Evaine, Joram and Queron found both Orin's and Jodotha's bodies intact under stasis nets made of purple silk thread strung with little shiral beads.  I think his bier was higher than hers, though.
9
General Information, Question, and/or Ideas / Re: Pre Camber.
« Last post by Evie on October 21, 2017, 11:29:57 am »
As I recall, Jodotha was found beside Orin's bier, not in a proper burial place of her own. I got the impression from where and how she was found that she knew she was mortally wounded, and therefore used the last of her energy to make her way back to Orin so she could die by his side, and then lay there undiscovered for centuries.
10
General / Re: Where would you expect to find Portals?
« Last post by DesertRose on October 21, 2017, 09:58:06 am »
Thanks!

Portals fading with time seems a bit odd though. Doesn't the Camberian Council *get* their nifty hiding place by teleporting blind to a portal that hasn't been used in centuries? And Morgan hopes to find a portal in the ruins of the Gabrielite order.

It would be fairly easy for the church to destroy portals; either tear up the floor to break them, or worse, lay a new floor over the top so that anyone using it loses their feet.

Would deryni need to destroy the portals to hide their identity? Humans can't detect them.

Aren't the Protocols of Orin the advanced stuff that Camber was doing? So his portal that shifted around the room needed special training: but ordinary portals not so, surely...

thanks again  :D

The Portals fading with time does seem to contradict the finding of the Council chamber, good point.  KK said something once about the story of who had the courage to brave that blind Portal trip and discover the site that became the Council's meeting place being worth telling.

Morgan fails to find the old Gabrilite Portal at St. Neot's because Dom Emrys destroyed it when the Regents more or less wiped out the Gabrilites; he does find where it once was, though.  Morgan can still perceive that there was once a Portal there, and he can still, two hundred plus years later, Read/sense Dom Emrys' warning that the abbot imprinted on the Portal site as he destroyed the Portal itself.  ("Beware, Deryni, here lies danger. . .")

But remember, Morgan is about half-trained at best.  He might genuinely not know that even had the St. Neot's Portal still been intact, it might not have been usable at all or at least not safely after a couple of centuries of neglect. 

Also, St. Neot's was a place of very high-level specialized Deryni training.  I cannot imagine that the Portal, even in the times when Gabrilites, Healers, and Deryni in general were mostly respected, didn't have some sort of security measures in place to keep unauthorized people out or at least keep them at the Portal site until released by someone who could vouch for them having a reason to visit the abbey.

Regarding Deryni destroying civil (as opposed to ecclesiastical) Portals to avoid detection, it is true that humans can't feel a Portal's energy.  But they'd damn sure notice if someone stood on a certain stone in the floor (or whatever) and just vanished!  Perhaps some Deryni destroyed their home Portals to avoid the temptation to use them and betray themselves in a moment of panic?

And yes, the Protocols of Orin were a series of manuscripts that Camber seems to have found or acquired (perhaps inherited?) at some point.  I would think that Portal construction would not be highly advanced training but certainly wouldn't be something that Deryni would learn before the late-intermediate or early-advanced stage of training.  It seems to require several people with one leading/directing the procedure, and it seems to be a fairly serious energy expenditure both to create and to destroy a Portal, so it's not like you'd want, say, fifteen-year-old children running around playing with that sort of knowledge and power.  (See Tieg's Blocking talent manifesting at the ripe old age of three.  Good thing for Evaine that Blocking can be undone by someone other than the person who did it in the first place!  Although I imagine she [and they all] would rather not have found that out the hard way!)
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