Yesterday I was in the book store and paged through a copy of The King's Deryni. The dedication was very nice. ;) I've read of the Chat before, but this time I thought I'd stop by and see what you all are about.
I first started reading KK back when i came across King Javan's Year in paperback at Wal Mart. I've read most all the books since then as I could find them in stores or my library.
Hello and welcome to Rhemuth Castle!
Thanks for joining us. If you want to get a feel for what Chat is like, the logs are posted here on the forum. We don't always talk about the books; we get pretty far off topic a LOT. :D
Have fun!
Welcome.
Chats are good fun. It took me a while to pluck up courage to join in but everyone is very nice. You can also post questions/ discussion starters about any of KK's books on the forum and folk will normally chip in. I'm from across the pond so really appreciate the earlier chat once a month.
Javan is one of my favourite characters - I was so upset when he died.
Fukiyama, Welcome to Forum.
Please join in on any topic you might like. Even pull up old ones if you have interested in it. We all love to talk Deryni stuff. Even non Deryni stuff too.
Chat is lots of fun. I have not made it to chat much lately, I always seem to be away from the computer Sunday afternoons. But the chatters are great people and a friendly group. If you have a cat, have him near as your chatting. He just may get a virtual petting from everyone.
Welcome to the forum Fukiyama! Glad you have joined us.
Welcome to the forum! Glad you found us. We're mostly harmless and rarely bite except upon special request. And dogs are welcome to the Sunday chats too, not just cats. (KK loves both!)
Thanks for the welcome, everyone. I will definitely check out the Chat on Sunday. I am reviewing my mIRC skills. It's been awhile.
Revanne, I like Javan too, though I do have to say he was a bit too passive for my liking. He needed to go on the offensive. Maybe assassinate a regent or two on the sly. ;)
I don't have a cat. I do have a brother!
"Revanne, I like Javan too, though I do have to say he was a bit too passive for my liking. He needed to go on the offensive. Maybe assassinate a regent or two on the sly."
I am always slightly puzzled as to the passivity of the Deryni as a whole, although I think there are fascinating indications that the "good guys" in some sense fear their own power for psychological and religious reasons.
However in defence of Javan he was only 16 and he had played a waiting game for so long where any action would have been fatal. Maybe he tried to be a little bit too clever in the end; also he was undermined by his own brother's irresponsibility. But then that's my prejudice speaking - I find it hard to forgive Rhys Michael.
Javan was also walking an awful tightrope; he knew good and well if he acted against the Regents too soon, they'd kill him, and he knew they were trying to kill him anyway (as they did in the end) because they couldn't control him, and then his own brother wouldn't see the malice of the Regents because Rhys Michael was thinking with the wrong head (sorry for the crudity there).
With regards to the passivity in general, I think Camber and Joram and all that lot were hesitant to become another set of the original Festils, maybe with a "You either die a hero or live long enough to see yourself become the villain" type of mindset, and of course by Kelson's time, various and sundry Deryni actions were just plain illegal both by secular and religious law.
Revanne, clever how? It's been a long time since I read the book? Do you mean just trying to get loyalists in position at court and the Willemite scheme or something else I'm forgetting?
DesertRose, I am not suggesting he opening act against the regents. But certainly an intelligent young man like Javan with the Haldane powers at his command could have dreamed up something.
Could he startle a horse and cause Murdoch to break his neck? Maybe Hubert has an itch in the back of his throat during a feast and chokes to death on a bone? I'm not remembering the full range and limits of Deryni powers, but you can see where I'm going. Nothing of course that would draw the attention of one of the pet Deryni, but something that would thin the herd so to speak. ;)
Rhys Michael was irresponsible (and I wanted to give him a slap upside the head more than once), but the Regents did their best to encourage him to be that way. IIRC, he didn't have many positive role models - Cinhil was conflicted, Alroy infirm and Javan sent away.
As for striking back, it think it would have been difficult given the strength of the Human backlash against Deryni. Given any excuse (read hint of Deryni taint), I'm sure the Regents could have justified the removal of all the Haldane heirs.
Quote from: Fukiyama on June 09, 2016, 11:22:38 AM
Revanne, clever how? It's been a long time since I read the book? Do you mean just trying to get loyalists in position at court and the Willemite scheme or something else I'm forgetting?
IIRC he was reading Hubert's mind when he heard Paulin about to walk in on them and although he planted a false memory it was not complete enough to fool their pet sniffer, Dimitri. I was possibly being a bit harsh because he needed to know what the Regents were up to, but I did think that he was a little lacking in caution. Also he very openly showed his sympathy for Oriel and his family, which although totally understandable was also incautious.
Quote from: Jerusha on June 09, 2016, 11:29:45 AM
Rhys Michael was irresponsible (and I wanted to give him a slap upside the head more than once), but the Regents did their best to encourage him to be that way. IIRC, he didn't have many positive role models - Cinhil was conflicted, Alroy infirm and Javan sent away.
As for striking back, it think it would have been difficult given the strength of the Human backlash against Deryni. Given any excuse (read hint of Deryni taint), I'm sure the Regents could have justified the removal of all the Haldane heirs.
Yes I guess he had been moulded to play the part they chose. I just found it hard when he was explicitly warned by Javan what would happen if he got an heir with Michaela, but then allowed himself to be lured into that trap. But then he, too, was very young.
I'm with you over striking back - especially given the horrors that he had been forced to witness, in particular the torturing to death of Declan Carmody on his and Alroy's thirteenth birthday.
Quote from: Fukiyama on June 09, 2016, 11:22:38 AM
Revanne, clever how? It's been a long time since I read the book? Do you mean just trying to get loyalists in position at court and the Willemite scheme or something else I'm forgetting?
DesertRose, I am not suggesting he opening act against the regents. But certainly an intelligent young man like Javan with the Haldane powers at his command could have dreamed up something.
Could he startle a horse and cause Murdoch to break his neck? Maybe Hubert has an itch in the back of his throat during a feast and chokes to death on a bone? I'm not remembering the full range and limits of Deryni powers, but you can see where I'm going. Nothing of course that would draw the attention of one of the pet Deryni, but something that would thin the herd so to speak. ;)
Those would have all been lovely suggestions, but keep in mind as well that Javan hadn't reached his seventeenth birthday when he was killed. Subtlety is not often a strong point of youthful minds, although Javan was better at it than most. :D
My point is, he was young (and was never allowed to outgrow that normally self-correcting fault) and quite justifiably afraid.
Quote from: revanne on June 09, 2016, 12:58:27 PM
IIRC he was reading Hubert's mind when he heard Paulin about to walk in on them and although he planted a false memory it was not complete enough to fool their pet sniffer, Dimitri. I was possibly being a bit harsh because he needed to know what the Regents were up to, but I did think that he was a little lacking in caution. Also he very openly showed his sympathy for Oriel and his family, which although totally understandable was also incautious.
Mmm, reading Hubert, that seems familiar.
Hi Fukiyama, welcome to the Forum!
I spent a lot of time in King Javan's Year hissing "Dammit LISTEN TO YOUR OLDER BROTHER, you little ****!" at Rhys Michael while I read the book. His failure to watch, listen and think and trust his own brother and his marrying Michaela was a contributing factor in Javan's death. (And I cried when Javan died.)
However.....I went a long way to forgiving Rhys Michael in The Bastard Prince. He had to learn a hard lesson through his own failure, but he DID learn it. He also showed his mettle as a Haldane by seizing the opportunity to find help and earn loyalty when the opportunity came his way. And in doing so, he freed Michaela and his sons from the Regents. He would have made a very decent King had he lived longer. The hardest learned lessons are those that stick with us and shape our future behavior. He'd probably still have made mistakes, but they would have been different ones.
Melissa.
I always thought Javan's big mistake was going after the Ramos Statutes too quickly, and perhaps showing to much empathy for Oriel & his family (and Deryni in general). Joram & the CC cautioned Javan not to do anything too drastic and sudden (like exterminating Rhun & the other regents) and I believe Javan got overconfident because he controlled Hubert. Imo Javan would have become a great king, and Kelson compared very favorably to him.