The Worlds of Katherine Kurtz

The Deryni Series => General - Deryni => Topic started by: Avisa on March 10, 2019, 08:43:06 PM

Title: Who was in the first tomb Kelson and Dhugal discovered??? And other q's.
Post by: Avisa on March 10, 2019, 08:43:06 PM
How much do we know about the origins of the St. Kyriell's community? The tombs Kelson and Dhugal go through are set up similarly to Orin's tomb that Evaine and company discover, right? The red net with shiral crystals holding some kind of power? I'm dying to know who started using the same method of interment for the Servants. Is it Joram? Someone else we know? I would think maybe Queron but the he was wearing armor. I haven't read the Camber trilogy in ages though, so I don't remember who else was involved with the Servants when they first started up.

Also, can someone with more expertise at the map of the Eleven Kingdoms describe exactly where St. Kyriell's is located? Do we know precisely where the Michaeline sanctuary was?
Title: Re: Who was in the first tomb Kelson and Dhugal discovered??? And other q's.
Post by: DesertRose on March 10, 2019, 09:07:50 PM
First, welcome!  Glad to see you jumped right in!

To answer your actual question, I'm not sure.  The implication is that the community Kelson and Dhugal encountered at St. Kyriell's is descended from the order of the Servants of St. Camber plus those who remained with Joram, Queron, Jesse MacGregor and his sister whose name is escaping me at the moment, and the children of Rhys and Evaine to attempt to subvert the persecutions of the Regents and to salvage what they could of the bodies of knowledge of the Michaeline, Gabrilite, and Varnarite orders.  But I'm not sure KK ever actually says where the community was located, except in the mountains near what was left of Camber's estate at Caerrorie.

Not all the members of the Servants of St. Camber were Deryni, either; Guaire d'Arliss was very much human, but he was one of the earliest people to assert that Camber was a saint (even though we the readers know that Camber was not actually dead at that point), and he was not the only human member of the order.

My own books are in storage (long story), but if any book says anything specific about whence the St. Kyriell's community grew and exactly where it was and where the Michaeline sanctuary was, it would probably be Codex Derynianus@Laurna has done quite a bit of work with the Codex, particularly as pertains to genealogy but she might also know more about the maps, and if she doesn't, I know @Bynw has a nice framed poster-size map, and I believe @Evie has a copy of that map as well, so perhaps someone whose memory is less faulty than mine and/or who has their books readily to hand and can look will pop in with some more definite answers.
Title: Re: Who was in the first tomb Kelson and Dhugal discovered??? And other q's.
Post by: Shiral on March 11, 2019, 12:52:19 AM
Very good question, Avisa. I don't think the person in that first tomb was ever identified, but you definitely raise an interesting question about who it MIGHT possibly be. 

Since Joram was a Michaeline and Queron started his spiritual life as a Gabrilite and was a Healer as well, my own general feeling is that a priest and knight like Joram was more likely to have been buried wearing armor. Healers were viewed as even more valuable than fighting men, and the Gabrilites were committed to non-violence as part of their Rule.

I believe the Michaeline Sanctuary was  somewhere in the Lendour Mountain Range, but I'm sure that records about it were kept deliberately vague, lest that information fall into the wrong hands.

Melissa
Title: Re: Who was in the first tomb Kelson and Dhugal discovered??? And other q's.
Post by: Laurna on March 11, 2019, 01:07:28 AM
Good insight Shiral.
As to the location, we do not know the exact location of St Kyriell's. However, we can speculate where it is. I am using the poster map as it is accepted as the most accurate. Maps do differ from printing to printing.

(https://www.rhemuthcastle.com/gallery/18693_11_03_19_12_27_54.jpeg)

In The Quest for Saint Camber Kelson and Dhugal travel from Valoret to Dolban one day. Then onto the estate of the Earl of Carcashale (the new Caerrorie) the next day. They then travel to St Bearand's Abby which is at the foot of the high Grelder Pass. The Abby is not on the map but you can see the river through the pass. Near the top of the Pass they fall into the river and over a waterfall. We must assume the underground river heads in a very different direction than the river on the map. It is likely Kelson and Dhugal went deep under the mountain range and ended up on the other side.  The underground river was fast moving at first and washed them along quite a ways before they reached a spit of land to beach themselves on. They fell in the river on March 21. Dhugal helps Kelson's injury on March 24. They walk down river from March 25 to April 8 when they break into the oldest tomb of St  Kyriell. How far can two injured men walk in 15 days. I will let you speculate just how far from of the Grelder Pass did they go. The Codex says- "Saint Kyriell's. This distant village is located in the hills North East of Caerrorie."

Also make note that on the map in the back of the Codex Caerrorie is in a different location than on the Poster map. It has Caerrorie just East of where St Liam's Abby is printed. So if the Codex says St Kyriell's is North East of that point, then the village could be anywhere in a circle from where the words Grelder Pass is printed. 

As Shiral just stated the Haven Sanctuary was located in the Lendour Mountains. I could be wrong, but I believe that St. Kyriell's and the Haven are different places.  And St Kyriell's was started by the people who first worshiped St Camber and then they had to go into hiding when St Camber was stricken from the church. Because they knew about the Shiral Crystal nets meant they did have members from Michaeline Haven among their community.

P.S. I may appear to gloss over the facts, but I do love this story and have read it many, many times.
Title: Re: Who was in the first tomb Kelson and Dhugal discovered??? And other q's.
Post by: Evie on March 11, 2019, 09:00:40 AM
Welcome to the forum, Avisa! (Especially since one of my fanfic characters is named Avisa, so I'm getting a giggle here thinking of her joining the forum.  ;D  You can find her in my story "Bewitched, Bothered, and Bewildered" in my section of the fanfic board.)

As for your question, I think @Laurna has covered the possibilities better than I could have, aside to note that KK's maps change (at least slightly) with nearly every printing, it seems, so I would hesitate to call any version of it the definitive or official map. That said, I do tend to lean towards using either the poster map or the version of it found in the Deryni Adventure Guide (and I think also in KK's most recent books in the Childe Morgan series) as the version that is "official" for my own story-plotting purposes. I strongly suspect KK's concept of Gwynedd's geography evolved along with the story arc, so the most recent is probably also the most accurate, except when travel times and such in the earlier books clearly indicate otherwise.  (Magical elastic roads and all that.  LOL!)
Title: Re: Who was in the first tomb Kelson and Dhugal discovered??? And other q's.
Post by: HoundMistress on March 11, 2019, 11:37:41 AM
Just curious: if the map is drawn traditionally with North being at the top, wouldn't Caerrorie be West of the abby mentioned?
Title: Re: Who was in the first tomb Kelson and Dhugal discovered??? And other q's.
Post by: Laurna on March 11, 2019, 12:58:11 PM
If you have the map on the last Pages of the Codex you will find Caerrorie at the joining of the two rivers half way between the two words Grelder Pass and Carcashale.
This is the map from The Quest for Saint Camber.

(https://www.rhemuthcastle.com/gallery/18693_11_03_19_12_50_56.jpeg)

This is the same location Caerrorie is found in the Codex. The story arc for QFSC  fits better with this map.

I remember the story arc for the Camber trilogy fit better with the Poster Map placement. Because in those stories Caerrorie was only 2 hour ride from Valoret and not a two or three day ride away as it is in QFSC.  ( Those Elastic Roads again)

I can not say which is accurate.
Title: Re: Who was in the first tomb Kelson and Dhugal discovered??? And other q's.
Post by: Evie on March 11, 2019, 01:25:42 PM
Quote from: Laurna on March 11, 2019, 12:58:11 PM
If you have the map on the last Pages of the Codex you will find Caerrorie at the joining of the two rivers half way between the two words Grelder Pass and Carcashale.
This is the map from The Quest for Saint Camber.

(https://www.rhemuthcastle.com/gallery/18693_11_03_19_12_50_56.jpeg)

This is the same location Caerrorie is found in the Codex. The story arc for QFSC  fits better with this map.

I remember the story arc for the Camber trilogy fit better with the Poster Map placement. Because in those stories Caerrorie was only 2 hour ride from Valoret and not a two or three day ride away as it is in QFSC.  ( Those Elastic Roads again)

I can not say which is accurate.

The journey taking different lengths of time is at least somewhat plausible, depending on the number of travelers, the condition of the roads (as I recall, much of the travel time in QFSC was spent during heavy spring rains, which would impede travel, as would a large number of people and baggage traveling together as opposed to just a few riders traveling lightly).  However, Caerrorie being in two different locations does seem to stretch credulity a bit, unless 1) it was located in one area during Camber's time and relocated in some later generation, or 2) it's an elastic Earldom and Caerrorie shifts around it the way that moving Transfer Portal does on Queen Sinead's Tower.  LOL!
Title: Re: Who was in the first tomb Kelson and Dhugal discovered??? And other q's.
Post by: r2005 on March 12, 2019, 04:20:27 AM
For awhile, I've thought that Joram and Queron had something to do with the founding of St. Kyriell's. There's one passage in The Bastard Prince that mentions that Joram and Queron, right before Queron goes off to try and help Rhys Michael, have been working on something to reestablish a viable cult of St. Camber in the six years after Javan's death. 

There's also the order from Joram to a stonemason for work on a chapel that Azim brings to Richenda, and the hidden message they can't decipher. It's also during the reign of Rhys Michael, but that's all the information that's given about that.
Title: Re: Who was in the first tomb Kelson and Dhugal discovered??? And other q's.
Post by: revanne on March 12, 2019, 05:55:37 AM
That's my hunch too r2005 and for the same reasons. I would like to think that it's Joram in the tomb. I also think that Joram takes a long while to get over Rhys Michael's actions which - albeit innocently- help to close the net around Javan. If the community was founded in the years between KJY and TBH this might have sown the seed for the hostility to the Haldane line which increased in the years of isolation. I can also see Joram being unwilling to conduct ordinations in the absence of a Bishop - though why not involve Naillan? - hence the community have consecrated brothers rather than Priests.
I wish I had time to explore this properly, it fascinates me.
Title: Re: Who was in the first tomb Kelson and Dhugal discovered??? And other q's.
Post by: Avisa on March 12, 2019, 10:21:53 PM
Quote from: r2005 on March 12, 2019, 04:20:27 AM
For awhile, I've thought that Joram and Queron had something to do with the founding of St. Kyriell's. There's one passage in The Bastard Prince that mentions that Joram and Queron, right before Queron goes off to try and help Rhys Michael, have been working on something to reestablish a viable cult of St. Camber in the six years after Javan's death. 

There's also the order from Joram to a stonemason for work on a chapel that Azim brings to Richenda, and the hidden message they can't decipher. It's also during the reign of Rhys Michael, but that's all the information that's given about that.

Good catch. See, this is why I finally posted this question after lurking around here for ages. I knew there would be people who made connections that I didn't put together myself.

Revanne, Rhys Michael's death was so traumatic though, for his immediate family and the group in sanctuary, it's hard to imagine them holding a grudge. But then, they never got to know Rhysem the way they knew Javan. And it must have been hard to get close to Owain afterward.
Title: Re: Who was in the first tomb Kelson and Dhugal discovered??? And other q's.
Post by: revanne on March 13, 2019, 02:40:26 AM
I agree Rhys Michael's death and his actions  around it would have done a great deal to change attitudes towards him, however when they first meet at the beginning of TBH Jorum is decidedly cool towards Rhys Michael and that initial suspicion may well have been part of the founding ethos of St  Kyriell's . Also we don't know what happened in 948 or at Killingford.
Title: Re: Who was in the first tomb Kelson and Dhugal discovered??? And other q's.
Post by: DesertRose on March 13, 2019, 05:55:24 AM
Quote from: revanne on March 12, 2019, 05:55:37 AM
That's my hunch too r2005 and for the same reasons. I would like to think that it's Joram in the tomb. I also think that Joram takes a long while to get over Rhys Michael's actions which - albeit innocently- help to close the net around Javan. If the community was founded in the years between KJY and TBH this might have sown the seed for the hostility to the Haldane line which increased in the years of isolation. I can also see Joram being unwilling to conduct ordinations in the absence of a Bishop - though why not involve Naillan? - hence the community have consecrated brothers rather than Priests.
I wish I had time to explore this properly, it fascinates me.

I don't remember when Niallan died; could it have been not that Joram wouldn't conduct ordinations but couldn't because he didn't have a bishop available to do them (because Niallan was the only bishop in the sanctuary as far as I remember, so if he had died at some point between the deaths of Javan and Rhys Michael, there wouldn't have been anyone else available to ordain anyone, and Joram was a pretty hard-line stickler for the rules)?

Although I can see a hole in this theory; Queron was the abbot of the community at the short-lived Servants of St. Camber as an openly-existing order, and IIRC, an abbot and a bishop hold equal ecclesiastical rank, although I'm not sure an abbot can perform an ordination, but then why wouldn't the church allow that?

Dunno.  And it's Silly O'Clock in the morning here so my brain isn't all the way awake yet.  ;)
Title: Re: Who was in the first tomb Kelson and Dhugal discovered??? And other q's.
Post by: revanne on March 13, 2019, 09:39:22 AM
Abbots have the same rank as Bishops, and therefore wield the same authority as the latter, but in terms of the three-fold order of ministry ie Bishops, Priests and Deacons they are not Bishops and cannot ordain. Jorum is definitely a stickler for the rules, and I think would have become more so after Evaine's death, but I can see Queron being flexible enough to find a way round the rules and come up with the idea of consecrated brethren.  So maybe it is Queron after all in the tomb?
Title: Re: Who was in the first tomb Kelson and Dhugal discovered??? And other q's.
Post by: DesertRose on March 13, 2019, 11:52:19 AM
Quote from: revanne on March 13, 2019, 09:39:22 AM
Abbots have the same rank as Bishops, and therefore wield the same authority as the latter, but in terms of the three-fold order of ministry ie Bishops, Priests and Deacons they are not Bishops and cannot ordain. Jorum is definitely a stickler for the rules, and I think would have become more so after Evaine's death, but I can see Queron being flexible enough to find a way round the rules and come up with the idea of consecrated brethren.  So maybe it is Queron after all in the tomb?

Or the body wearing armor was Joram and one of the other bodies nearby was Queron.  IIRC, Kelson and Dhugal went through the catacombs in chronological order, starting with the earliest/longest-ago buried and being discovered in the tomb of a recently-deceased member of the community.

I can see consecrated brethren becoming a thing that either Joram and Queron came up with in conjunction, a way to have spiritual leaders that the community would need after the deaths of the priests who founded the community without breaking Joram's scruples around Not-A-Bishop performing ordinations, or that Queron did on his own on the "better to beg forgiveness than ask permission" principle and Joram rolled with it for the same reason, that neither he nor Queron nor any other priest (can't remember who else was there) was immortal in the physical plane and the community would need some system of spiritual guidance/leadership even if a priesthood per se was not an option since they didn't have any bishops (this is, of course, assuming that Niallan had died and there weren't any other bishops in sanctuary).

I'm a little fuzzy on this at the moment, but it seems like Joram and Queron were relatively close in age, although I want to think Queron was slightly older, maybe ten years or so; it might be possible that Queron outlived Joram, in which case the consecrated brethren might have been a thing Queron initiated after Joram's death, assuming Queron was still alive to do so.
Title: Re: Who was in the first tomb Kelson and Dhugal discovered??? And other q's.
Post by: r2005 on March 13, 2019, 03:21:19 PM
Quote from: DesertRose on March 13, 2019, 05:55:24 AM


I don't remember when Niallan died; could it have been not that Joram wouldn't conduct ordinations but couldn't because he didn't have a bishop available to do them (because Niallan was the only bishop in the sanctuary as far as I remember, so if he had died at some point between the deaths of Javan and Rhys Michael, there wouldn't have been anyone else available to ordain anyone, and Joram was a pretty hard-line stickler for the rules)?

Niallan was still alive at the end of The Bastard Prince. His mention at the end of the book is only to point out that the new Archbishop of Valoret dared not to bring Niallan back. His fate after this point, Codex hints withstanding, is entirely up in the air.

Title: Re: Who was in the first tomb Kelson and Dhugal discovered??? And other q's.
Post by: DesertRose on March 13, 2019, 03:33:36 PM
Okay, so that shoots that theory, at least through the end of the Heirs trilogy.  Back to the drawing board.
Title: Re: Who was in the first tomb Kelson and Dhugal discovered??? And other q's.
Post by: tenworld on March 14, 2019, 12:12:59 PM
I am really enjoying this thread. Is there any hope that KK will ever write the story of 948? How all those people died and whether Morgan ever learns he is descended from Camber are the two biggest holes in this history.
Title: Re: Who was in the first tomb Kelson and Dhugal discovered??? And other q's.
Post by: r2005 on March 24, 2019, 09:28:00 PM
I've been trying to formulate a list of people who knew about the Sanctuary beyond Camber's heirs just for the fun of pure speculation.

I'm sure some of the Michaelines who left knew about it, but who knows what any of them may have done with that knowledge.

There's Jesse, plus his sister, Seanna, Queron, and Niallan.

I was reading through the prologue of KJY, and there's the farrier, Ned, but I wouldn't be surprised protections were placed on him even though there's no mention of it, so he couldn't reveal much of anything. 

Goes back to the books.
Title: Re: Who was in the first tomb Kelson and Dhugal discovered??? And other q's.
Post by: Laurna on March 24, 2019, 09:30:17 PM
I love that you are doing the research. Good job.
Title: Re: Who was in the first tomb Kelson and Dhugal discovered??? And other q's.
Post by: r2005 on March 25, 2019, 12:18:15 AM
So, I leave this here so I don't get sidetracked while reading through the parts of the books that are set in the Sanctuary.

We know that Joram moved Rhys and Evaine's bodies from the chapel to an undisclosed location. I don't think he moved any of the other Michaelines that were also buried there. His comment to Javan was just about Rhys and Evaine.

Is Camber's body still in the chamber that's underneath the chapel?
Title: Re: Who was in the first tomb Kelson and Dhugal discovered??? And other q's.
Post by: Bynw on March 25, 2019, 07:14:43 AM
Quote from: r2005 on March 25, 2019, 12:18:15 AM

Is Camber's body still in the chamber that's underneath the chapel?

I think it is, but I dont think that the current Camberian Council knows that it is there.
Title: Re: Who was in the first tomb Kelson and Dhugal discovered??? And other q's.
Post by: revanne on March 25, 2019, 08:15:05 AM
Quote from: Bynw on March 25, 2019, 07:14:43 AM
Quote from: r2005 on March 25, 2019, 12:18:15 AM

Is Camber's body still in the chamber that's underneath the chapel?

I think it is, but I dont think that the current Camberian Council knows that it is there.

I wonder in Kelson's day if it was still believed amongst those who revered Camber's memory that his body had miraculously disappeared or whether Joram's insistence that he had moved his father's body had been generally accepted.
Title: Re: Who was in the first tomb Kelson and Dhugal discovered??? And other q's.
Post by: ReikiDeryni on March 25, 2019, 11:18:12 PM
Most, except the little group mention to be formed to know about Camber's body. Joram and the others that knew the truth wanted it that way.
Title: Re: Who was in the first tomb Kelson and Dhugal discovered??? And other q's.
Post by: r2005 on March 27, 2019, 12:31:51 AM
This is my list of named non-MacRories who knew about the Sanctuary. I put asterisks next to the names of people that we know the circumstances of their deaths.   

Bishop Niallan
Bishop Dermot ~ He's the human who sided with the Deryni and was brought back after Hubert was replaced.
Jesse
Seanna
Gregory
Syclan*
Tavis*
Revan*
Camlin
Fiona
Javan*
Torcuill de la Marche
Queron
Guiscard*
Etienne*

There are also a bunch of unnamed characters who knew about the Sanctuary since they were part of Joram's spy network.
Title: Re: Who was in the first tomb Kelson and Dhugal discovered??? And other q's.
Post by: Bynw on March 27, 2019, 07:38:21 AM

The Sanctuary is one thing. Where Camber's body is located is another entirely. If I am remembering correctly, as I don't have access to all my books, Camber's body is on the black and white cubed alter where they found Orin's body. In the secret chamber under meeting place of the Camberian Council. This chamber was only known to a select view of the original CC members and I believe the knowledge died with them.
Title: Re: Who was in the first tomb Kelson and Dhugal discovered??? And other q's.
Post by: DesertRose on March 27, 2019, 08:55:51 AM
Quote from: r2005 on March 27, 2019, 12:31:51 AM
This is my list of named non-MacRories who knew about the Sanctuary. I put asterisks next to the names of people that we know the circumstances of their deaths.   

Bishop Niallan
Bishop Dermot ~ He's the human who sided with the Deryni and was brought back after Hubert was replaced.
Jesse
Seanna
Gregory
Syclan*
Tavis*
Revan*
Camlin
Fiona
Javan*
Torcuill de la Marche
Queron
Guiscard*
Etienne*

There are also a bunch of unnamed characters who knew about the Sanctuary since they were part of Joram's spy network.

Torcuill de la Marche wasn't a MacRorie, but I believe he was related to them, although the exact relation is never specified in the books to my recollection.  But de la Marche was the maiden name of Jocelyn, Camber's late wife/countess and mother of his children.  (I believe Rhysel Thuryn's middle name was Jocelyn, in honor of Evaine's mother.)
Title: Re: Who was in the first tomb Kelson and Dhugal discovered??? And other q's.
Post by: Laurna on March 27, 2019, 12:38:31 PM
Per the Codex

The Camberian Council chamber, which is under a violet dome "hidden beneath a high, rock-girt plateau of the Rhendall Mountains, almost within sight of the sea. " It is made up of the Keeill and the chamber.  There is no mention in the Codex if Camber's body was moved to here.

Orin's body was found covered with a net of shiral crystals on its bier beneath Grecotha by Father Joram, Lady Evaine, and Dom Queron on the XIXth day of April in the year 918."  that is where they found the fifth protocol "The scroll of Daring". I believe that this is the location where Camber was buried. He was the Bishop of Grecotha for ten years, after-all, even if not in his own name.

The Haven or Sanctuary is in the Lendour Mountains near Dhassa. I always got the impression that this was underground with only a small above ground area but I may be completely wrong about that. We have never heard more about the Haven in Kelson's time. Wouldn't it be funny if the children Alaric and Duncan came across who stole their horses near the rocky defile and river they had to cross where from the Sanctuary. Just a thought.

Saint Kyriell's "This distant Village is located in the hills Northeast of Caerrorie."  Someone who knew about Orin's bier and then Camber's final resting place taught the people of Kyriell to use the Shiral crystal net. It very well could have been several of the people named above.
Title: Re: Who was in the first tomb Kelson and Dhugal discovered??? And other q's.
Post by: Bynw on March 27, 2019, 01:38:25 PM
Quote from: Laurna on March 27, 2019, 12:38:31 PM
Per the Codex

Orin's body was found covered with a net of shiral crystals on its bier beneath Grecotha by Father Joram, Lady Evaine, and Dom Queron on the XIXth day of April in the year 918."  that is where they found the fifth protocol "The scroll of Daring". I believe that this is the location where Camber was buried. He was the Bishop of Grecotha for ten years, after-all, even if not in his own name.


It might be there.
Title: Re: Who was in the first tomb Kelson and Dhugal discovered??? And other q's.
Post by: Avisa on March 27, 2019, 09:18:26 PM
Quote from: Laurna on March 27, 2019, 12:38:31 PM
Per the Codex

The Camberian Council chamber, which is under a violet dome "hidden beneath a high, rock-girt plateau of the Rhendall Mountains, almost within sight of the sea. " It is made up of the Keeill and the chamber.  There is no mention in the Codex if Camber's body was moved to here.

But how did they get THERE? Whose property was/is it on? So many questions.

QuoteOrin's body was found covered with a net of shiral crystals on its bier beneath Grecotha by Father Joram, Lady Evaine, and Dom Queron on the XIXth day of April in the year 918."  that is where they found the fifth protocol "The scroll of Daring". I believe that this is the location where Camber was buried. He was the Bishop of Grecotha for ten years, after-all, even if not in his own name.

Makes sense.

QuoteThe Haven or Sanctuary is in the Lendour Mountains near Dhassa. I always got the impression that this was underground with only a small above ground area but I may be completely wrong about that. We have never heard more about the Haven in Kelson's time. Wouldn't it be funny if the children Alaric and Duncan came across who stole their horses near the rocky defile and river they had to cross where from the Sanctuary. Just a thought.

Man I really need to reread the Camber series, just so I can hunt for clues about all this. I can't imagine it was THAT close to Dhassa and civilization, but it would be pretty hilarious for Morgan to somehow just stumble across it, if there's anything left.

QuoteSaint Kyriell's "This distant Village is located in the hills Northeast of Caerrorie."  Someone who knew about Orin's bier and then Camber's final resting place taught the people of Kyriell to use the Shiral crystal net. It very well could have been several of the people named above.
This must be it, it's just surprising to think that any of them would set up a community to lose all contact with the outside world. Joram was definitely not a guy who would just leave things alone. And Ansel and Jesse and Evaine's kids all went off and had descendants. So that suggests that it was in fact Queron and/or some other priest who stuck around and got St. Kyriell's up and running.
Title: Re: Who was in the first tomb Kelson and Dhugal discovered??? And other q's.
Post by: r2005 on March 27, 2019, 11:33:41 PM
After reading Harrowing again after not having read it in awhile, I realized that I'd mixed up some of the secret locations in my head.

In the book, Queron talks about being able to replicate the spell, but does mention that he wouldn't be able to create one that lasted as long as the one they found. That makes sense given the condition that Dhugal and Kelson find that first body in the tombs.
Title: Re: Who was in the first tomb Kelson and Dhugal discovered??? And other q's.
Post by: ReikiDeryni on March 29, 2019, 08:57:26 PM
At the end of The Quest For Saint Camber, "Camber's" spirit shows Kelson where his body lies. The Harrowing Of Gwynedd suggest  Grecotha as the place.