since this game is semi free form roleplaying. there will be times when dice rolling will be necessary, but not too often. most actions and results will simply be automatic. but in the following cases there will be the need to roll the bones:
using any trait on another character played by a forum member
any form of combat
other issues as determined :)
and since this is a forum based game. we need a way to roll dice so here it is: https://dicelog.com/maildice (https://dicelog.com/maildice) for verification they can be all sent to zipperbro at deryni dot net
Just to clarify, your email address just goes in the "Send results to" field, but we still need to register our own email address info, yes? Otherwise, we would need your password also if we're using your email address for the "Your mail" field, and I'm assuming that is not what you want us to do. :D
to clarify my email would go in the send results to field. your email and password (not your email password) but the registration password with the site would go in those fields
here is what it would look like:
(see the attachment)
Tested that. Took a few tries to get it right. The roll that worked was 6+1=7. Haha.
and i did get those test emails :)
Still trying to make this work. Maybe this time....
Quote from: Jerusha on November 15, 2017, 06:16:46 PM
Still trying to make this work. Maybe this time....
1. On the page Bynw linked to, first click on the link to the registration page to register your email address and password. (This is free.) Follow the directions on that page. IIRC, after you do, you may get an email with a link to click on to confirm your registration. At least a lot of registrations work that way, and I think this did too. For security reasons, use a different password for this site than you use when logging into your email. That way if this website is ever hacked, the hacker can't use the same password to hijack your email address. (Best practice is never to use the same password on more than one website, but let's be real, how many people actually follow best practice every single time?)
2. Once you have registered your email address and password, then use those on the page Bynw linked to. His email address goes in the box that asks who you want results sent to. The type of dice roll you want is usually 2d6, unless you have an advantage (3d6) or disadvantage (1d6).
If that isn't clear enough to get you results, I'll try to explain more clearly when I have a computer in front of me so I can actually see what I'm talking about. ;D
I think it worked! Woo hoo!
Quote from: Jerusha on November 15, 2017, 08:22:13 PM
I think it worked! Woo hoo!
It did work. I got the email!
Just remember the important rule when it comes to rolling the dice.
1d6 is at a Disadvantage
2d6 is Standard
3d6 is at an Advantage
The total of the dice doesn't matter in most cases. It's just the individual rolls. And there we are looking for a 5 or a 6. Anything else doesn't help.
No idea how to make sense of this :( . As I've never participated in role play games before I'm lost so both the terminology and the sequencing are leaving me feeling like a human trying to cast a Deryni spell.
Quote from: revanne on November 28, 2017, 11:38:19 AM
No idea how to make sense of this :( . As I've never participated in role play games before I'm lost so both the terminology and the sequencing are leaving me feeling like a human trying to cast a Deryni spell.
OK, the first thing you need to do to get set up is to go to the validation link at the top of the page that Bynw posted the link to, and register your email address and a password (not your regular email address password, just one for that page, for safety's sake) on that website. Then you go back to that page Bynw posted the link to (the dice rolling page) to do the actual dice rolls, but it won't work until you have first validated your email address. And make sure you copy the results to Bynw by putting his zipperbro address (which I think he posted earlier in this thread) in that larger box on the page.
What Bynw was saying is that most actions will require what is called a 2d6 roll, so you just need to make sure on that page that the 2d6 option is selected, unless the action you are attempting has some other level of difficulty (an advantage or a disadvantage), in which case you should select 3d6 or 1d6 respectively. (What 2d6 means is that you are rolling two six-sided dice. A six-sided die is the regular sort of cube shaped dice that most people are familiar with. Therefore terms like 2d6, 3d6, and 1d6 are just gaming shorthand for "two (standard 6-sided) dice", "three 6-sided dice", and "one 6-sided die." The reason we specify it's a d6 rather than just "roll 2 dice," etc. is that in many RPG, dice with different number of sides are used--for instance, an action might require a 2d4 roll (two four-sided dice) or a 1d100 roll (roll 1 hundred-sided die). This game is simpler in that it only requires the six-sided dice that most non-RPG gamers are already familiar with, so really all you need to pay attention to is whether this is an action with
normal difficulty for your character (in which case you'd roll
2d6, or if it is something that is going to be extra easy for your character, in which case you've got an
advantage and can roll a
3d6 (adding a dice gives you a greater chance to getting the 5 or 6 on one of the dice in order to succeed in your action), or if this is going to be extra tough for your character to succeed in (therefore giving you a
disadvantage), in which case you only get one shot at succeeding because you are only allowed to try rolling
1d6. And if you are not certain what number of dice are needed, you can ask our Gamemaster, although your list of traits you've picked for your character will also provide clues, since traits you are specially trained in should offer you an advantage when you have to use those. In other words, if you have special training in, say, reading a magic scroll, then you should be able to add that third dice to your roll rather than just taking a stab at it like an untrained person and having a normal number of dice (maybe 2, if you're Deryni but just haven't had specialized training in that area) or a disadvantage (1 if you're human and don't have any clue it's even a magical scroll!) And of course Bynw might throw in some extra twist--for instance, he might decide that you've got a much harder-than-average magic scroll to read there, and while you've got some scroll reading skill, you're no Evaine MacRorie Thuryn, so for this particular one you might still be at a disadvantage even as a trained Deryni scroll reader. But I'm sure he would let us know if such special circumstances exist, so you wouldn't be left on your own to figure that out.
Did that clear things up, or did I miss anything?
I've done the registration I think - do I understand that I don't need to roll the dice until the game dictates?
Quote from: revanne on November 28, 2017, 11:38:19 AM
... I'm lost so both the terminology and the sequencing are leaving me feeling like a human trying to cast a Deryni spell.
Love, love the analogy Revanne. Don't stress this part when the time comes for our first roll of the dice we can all help each other get it right.
I am so excited that you will be joining us. I do hope this means you are feeling a little better. ***Hugs and smiles*** ;D
Quote from: revanne on November 28, 2017, 12:20:10 PM
I've done the registration I think - do I understand that I don't need to roll the dice until the game dictates?
Yes, this is correct. This game system is much more story-based than roll-based, so dice will likely only be used if there is some need to randomly determine an outcome, such as who manages to injure/kill whom in combat, or if you have succeeded in doing something like charming another person into doing something, bluffing your way through a situation, using a magical spell right (especially a new and unfamiliar one), etc. I think in our scene writing, we can state we are attempting to do things of that sort, but we will need a dice roll to see if we actually succeed or not, and then subsequent scenes will reflect the results of that roll accordingly. But having never played an RPG under quite these circumstances, that's more just a guess on my part. The closest thing I've done to this was a story-based RPG in Storium, and that's more or less how things got settled there, only depending on cards that were played rather than dice rolls.
I've done a few rolls in advance. Obviously I need to use them in order but one was 5+5 and another was 6+5 - because both die were 5 or 6, can use the throw more than once? Or is that cheating ? ;D
Quote from: Bynw on November 09, 2017, 10:01:05 AM
since this game is semi free form roleplaying. there will be times when dice rolling will be necessary, but not too often. most actions and results will simply be automatic. but in the following cases there will be the need to roll the bones:
using any trait on another character played by a forum member
any form of combat
other issues as determined :)
and since this is a forum based game. we need a way to roll dice so here it is: https://dicelog.com/maildice (https://dicelog.com/maildice) for verification they can be all sent to zipperbro at deryni dot net
Bynw, can I have a clarification for when to roll dice.
Above it says roll when "using any trait
on another character played by a forum member."
Does this mean that if we use a trait, such as Power for our selves, we do NOT have to roll?
Example 1) using Handfire or lighting a flame to the campfire or something that does not have to do with another character. I do NOT need to roll for these things.
Example 2) What about Mind speech? A character is talking in their head and broadcasting it to another person. They are not doing anything to that other person. So NO roll of the dice required? It would be up to the other person if they have their shields up or down to receive that speech. Yes?
Example 3) Raising and lowering our own shields. NO roll required. That should not require a dice roll and be at the character's discretion. The exception would be a psychic attack to break our shields; that would be combat and would therefore require a dice roll.
Example 4) This one is trickier. What about using a trait on an NPC, a character not played by a forum member, like Truth Reading? That should NOT require a roll. On the other hand, Truth Saying would be considered a combat move and would require a roll.
Thanks.
Quote from: Laurna on January 27, 2018, 01:40:08 PM
Bynw, can I have a clarification for when to roll dice.
Above it says roll when "using any trait on another character played by a forum member."
Does this mean that if we use a trait, such as Power for our selves, we do NOT have to roll?
Absolutely I can.
It really depends on what one is attempting to do that determines a die roll. Even if it is on yourself it might require one.
Quote from: Laurna on January 27, 2018, 01:40:08 PM
Example 1) using Handfire or lighting a flame to the campfire or something that does not have to do with another character. I do NOT need to roll for these things.
Generally speaking, no you would need to roll to create a ball of Handfire or create flame to light a campfire or candle. However if another Deryni wanted to take control of the Handfire you created. Then yes you would have to roll then and so would the other person wanting control.
Quote from: Laurna on January 27, 2018, 01:40:08 PM
Example 2) What about Mind speech? A character is talking in their head and broadcasting it to another person. They are not doing anything to that other person. So NO roll of the dice required? It would be up to the other person if they have their shields up or down to receive that speech. Yes?
On this one. The Sender of the Mind Speech generally wouldn't have to roll, unless they wanted to force the communication on someone who is unwilling. And of course since Mind Speech is pretty much a broadcast, like radio, it can be picked up by others who are not the intended recipient. But that roll would have to be made by the other person of course.
Quote from: Laurna on January 27, 2018, 01:40:08 PM
Example 3) Raising and lowering our own shields. NO roll required. That should not require a dice roll and be at the character's discretion. The exception would be a psychic attack to break our shields; that would be combat and would therefore require a dice roll.
Raising and lowering doesn't require a roll. That is totally up to the Deryni in question. Forcing them down would require rolls of course or trying to keep them up on an assault.
Quote from: Laurna on January 27, 2018, 01:40:08 PM
Example 4) This one is trickier. What about using a trait on an NPC, a character not played by a forum member, like Truth Reading? That should NOT require a roll. On the other hand, Truth Saying would be considered a combat move and would require a roll.
Actually that would. Truth Reading is to determine if a lie is a lie and should actually always require a roll. It also requires asking the right questions. For example, you have captured a would-be assassin, you think that they are related to as specific individual. So you ask them, under a Truth-Reading,
"Are you related to 'name of specific individual'?"The would-be assassin answers back with:
"No I am not related to 'name of specific individual'."You make your roll for Truth Reading to see if he is lying or not ... and you get:
[18:12] <bynw> !roll 2d6
[18:12] <@derynibot> 6, 6 == 12
Made it with flying colors. The GM lets you know that the would-be assassin is not lying. He is telling the truth. However all evidence points to that not being true.
The reason Truth-Reading failed you, is because of the wrong question being asked. The would-be assassin is not related to the 'specific individual' because he IS the specific individual. One is not related to oneself technically. So it isn't a lie.
Truth Saying on the other hand. Now that is a form of Mind-Control as one is forcing someone to speak truthfully. So that would also always require a roll.
Quote from: Bynw on January 27, 2018, 06:17:42 PM
And of course since Mind Speech is pretty much a broadcast, like radio, it can be picked up by others who are not the intended recipient. But that roll would have to be made by the other person of course.
Wait, what?! I thought Mind-Speech by definition requires focused (i.e., not random) projection of one's thoughts into a particular person (or a small group of individuals') mind(s), and therefore has the advantage of NOT being able to be picked up by random passers-by or even an enemy trying to overhear you, even if they are Deryni. At least I can't remember anyone in the Deryni books ever picking up on Mind-Speech that wasn't directed towards them, although I guess I could imagine someone accidentally projecting Mind-Speech into the wrong mind if they were really sloppy with their focus, yet not so disrupted that they couldn't focus at all. (In game terms, maybe that might be the result of a Critical Fail?) The only examples I can think of in the books of accidentally broadcasting to others was whenever a Deryni character involuntarily broadcasts a psychic cry of pain or fear, which comes across like a widespread broadcast to other Deryni in the room precisely because it's
not a focused communication, it's an instinctive panic or visceral reaction that resonates to other telepaths in the vicinity. But I wouldn't consider that the same as Mind-Speech, which by its very nature is (or at least appears always to be in the books, unless there are instances I am forgetting?) directly projected to a particular mind or minds. Otherwise, what advantage would there be in Mind-Speaking at all, if it could be overheard by the wrong person? One might as well just whisper instead and save the psychic energy it takes to telepathically project one's thoughts for more important things.
Quote from: Evie on January 27, 2018, 07:14:06 PM
Quote from: Bynw on January 27, 2018, 06:17:42 PM
And of course since Mind Speech is pretty much a broadcast, like radio, it can be picked up by others who are not the intended recipient. But that roll would have to be made by the other person of course.
Wait, what?! I thought Mind-Speech by definition requires focused (i.e., not random) projection of one's thoughts into a particular person (or a small group of individuals') mind(s), and therefore has the advantage of NOT being able to be picked up by random passers-by or even an enemy trying to overhear you, even if they are Deryni. At least I can't remember anyone in the Deryni books ever picking up on Mind-Speech that wasn't directed towards them, although I guess I could imagine someone accidentally projecting Mind-Speech into the wrong mind if they were really sloppy with their focus, yet not so disrupted that they couldn't focus at all. (In game terms, maybe that might be the result of a Critical Fail?) The only examples I can think of in the books of accidentally broadcasting to others was whenever a Deryni character involuntarily broadcasts a psychic cry of pain or fear, which comes across like a widespread broadcast to other Deryni in the room precisely because it's not a focused communication, it's an instinctive panic or visceral reaction that resonates to other telepaths in the vicinity. But I wouldn't consider that the same as Mind-Speech, which by its very nature is (or at least appears always to be in the books, unless there are instances I am forgetting?) directly projected to a particular mind or minds. Otherwise, what advantage would there be in Mind-Speaking at all, if it could be overheard by the wrong person? One might as well just whisper instead and save the psychic energy it takes to telepathically project one's thoughts for more important things.
EEEK. guess I have to make a Save Test to dodge out of the way here.
Almost every incidence of Mind Speech we have seen in the Deryni books are done by Deryni in physical contact with one another or those using some sort of a device to focus the call to a specific mind or minds. The Camber Medallion that Alaric Morgan used with Lord Derry. And the large Shiral crystal that is used by the Camberian Council to call its members from across the 11 Kingdoms. And as we have seen, the greater the distance, the greater the difficulty.
In all of those instances, the communication is private. And this is generally the typical use of Mind-speech.
We also have the incident in Deryni Archives where the Camber children and Rhys called for help when the house was being robbed. This was a wide-band cry that was easily overheard by any Deryni in the area. As I believe one of the children said he thought he called All of the Deryni in the area to aid them.
Deryni Magic has this to say about the subject of Mind-Speech being overheard by others:
Quote
Indeed, if a potential receiver is predisposed to pick up telepathic communication, if he or she is "open" to such a contact, it is quite possible to "overhear" mind-speech intended for another. Because transmission across a distance requires a stronger and broader "band" of energy, spillage can occur, to be picked up by anyone in range and "listening" for it. Several characters display concern about psychic eavesdropping and often use physical contact to close the "leak" and prevent it. Morgan and Duncan are sitting close beside one another when they use mindspeech to communicate after being interrogated by Arilan and Cardiel at Dhassa, even though they do not yet even suspect that Arilan is Deryni. And Camber-Alister, to prevent being overheard by the assembled bishops, utilizes blatant formal contact with Joram, hands to temples, outwardly pretending a judicial probe of Joram's mind but at the same time communicating on hidden telepathic levels as well as open verbal ones, all the while cobbling together a forthcoming explanation for his audience that will extricate Joram from perjury yet still retain Camber's identity as Alister. It succeeds in that, though not precisely as Camber had planned. As so often happens, Camber has not foreseen all the ramifications. Still, it is a masterly piece of work and a good example of what can be done with mind-speech.
Quote from: Bynw on January 27, 2018, 08:57:57 PM
We also have the incident in Deryni Archives where the Camber children and Rhys called for help when the house was being robbed. This was a wide-band cry that was easily overheard by any Deryni in the area. As I believe one of the children said he thought he called All of the Deryni in the area to aid them.
Rhys himself said it. Either Joram or Cathan said something about having Called Camber and the hunting party, and Rhys said that he'd also called when he was first injured; I believe the line was something like, "Them, and every Deryni for three counties."
Ok. Deryni Magic makes it clearer, although I wasn't thinking about cases where people are deliberately calling for help. I was thinking more about cases like Duncan and Alaric being in the same room (or Dhugal and Kelson) silently communicating in a way not intended for others' hearing, which was sometimes done while in physical contact, but not always.
In those days there werent very many other Deryni around. But we are 30+ years into the future. A chance for more Deryni to be open. To have been trained. To have their powers rediscovered after being forgotten for so long.
QuoteQuote from: Laurna on January 27, 2018, 01:40:08 pm
Example 2) What about Mind speech? A character is talking in their head and broadcasting it to another person. They are not doing anything to that other person. So NO roll of the dice required? It would be up to the other person if they have their shields up or down to receive that speech. Yes?
QuoteQuote from: BYNW
On this one. The Sender of the Mind Speech generally wouldn't have to roll, unless they wanted to force the communication on someone who is unwilling. And of course since Mind Speech is pretty much a broadcast, like radio, it can be picked up by others who are not the intended recipient. But that roll would have to be made by the other person of course.
I don't think the actual conversation of Focused Mind Speech can be heard or understood by others. I do believe that other Deryni outside the conversation, if their shields are open, can detect the magic that is being used. However, they can not hear the details of what is said.
One example where I am thinking of: is when Alaric is lying prostate on the cathedral floor during his re-infolding ceremony into the church, both he and Duncan use Mind Speech, they were not in physical contact with each other, yet they were using focused Mind Speech. They also were calling out to make contact with Derry who was far far away. Denis Arilan was standing very close. Denis detects Alaric using magic, but he can not hear the words Duncan and Alaric say to one another. I am certain that Arilan would have used all his powers to find out what was going on. But he couldn't discover it. He had to wait until the ritual was over before he confronted Alaric. Very upset he was too, at Alaric for using magic in the church and not knowing why.
Quote from: Bynw on January 27, 2018, 06:17:42 PM
Quote from: Laurna on January 27, 2018, 01:40:08 PM
Bynw, can I have a clarification for when to roll dice
Example 1) using Handfire or lighting a flame to the campfire or something that does not have to do with another character. I do NOT need to roll for these things.
Generally speaking, no you would need to roll to create a ball of Handfire or create flame to light a campfire or candle. However if another Deryni wanted to take control of the Handfire you created. Then yes you would have to roll then and so would the other person wanting control.
OK. So I must roll the dice to create Handfire, (this is a Power Trait ability). If I fail, I should be able to roll again as a second attempt, roll again as a third attempt, and a fourth. As long as I am not being attack and the characters around me don't start laughing in my face.
"Hahah! Five times? It took you five tries to get that light over your head? My seven year old daughter has better control of Handfire than you do. hahah!"
It should be like practice-makes-perfect; so lots of practice should be acceptable. (only the dice rolls never seem to improve with multiple rolls, At least not if I am rolling)
Maybe I'm missing something. I read Bynw as saying you don't have to roll to create handfire (assuming you already know how), but you do need to roll if attempting to pass it on to someone else, and they would have to roll to successfully receive it. So for instance, Aliset could create handfire without me having to roll for it, but if she wants to pass it to someone else (let's say Darcy is on a ladder trying to peek inside a dark attic, so she's trying to pass handfire up to him), maybe she has to roll to send it floating up to him, and he has to roll to catch it?
I am confused by the wording.
Quoteno you would need to roll to create a ball of Handfire
Is that "no, you would need to roll" as in yes you must roll,
or "no .... need to roll"
I don't understand.
Quote from: Laurna on January 27, 2018, 11:15:02 PM
I am confused by the wording.
Quoteno you would need to roll to create a ball of Handfire
Is that "no, you would need to roll" as in yes you must roll,
or "no .... need to roll"
I don't understand.
Oh, I see what you're saying. I read it wrong and assumed it said "no, you WOULDN'T need to roll" just to create handfire, but only if you wanted to pass it on, but now that I re-read it, it appears you need 3 dice rolls just to create it and pass it to someone else, which seems really complicated. My mind probably just assumed that unless you are a completely untrained Deryni (like Darcy, for instance), any Deryni with the most rudimentary ability to use his powers would normally be able to produce handfire unless there was some complicating factor interfering, such as inability to focus well, or a head injury, etc. So I need clarification on that too, since given how it's actually worded, that means even a fully trained Deryni still has less than a 50% chance of doing something as basic as creating handfire, which seems skewed unless there is some way to have a "practice makes perfect" factor built in. I can see odds that low for a Deryni just learning how to use basic powers, but not for someone brought up using them, even if they haven't fully completed training in the non-basics.
Quote from: Evie on January 27, 2018, 11:49:46 PM
Quote from: Laurna on January 27, 2018, 11:15:02 PM
I am confused by the wording.
Quoteno you would need to roll to create a ball of Handfire
Is that "no, you would need to roll" as in yes you must roll,
or "no .... need to roll"
I don't understand.
Oh, I see what you're saying. I read it wrong and assumed it said "no, you WOULDN'T need to roll" just to create handfire, but only if you wanted to pass it on, but now that I re-read it, it appears you need 3 dice rolls just to create it and pass it to someone else, which seems really complicated. My mind probably just assumed that unless you are a completely untrained Deryni (like Darcy, for instance), any Deryni with the most rudimentary ability to use his powers would normally be able to produce handfire unless there was some complicating factor interfering, such as inability to focus well, or a head injury, etc. So I need clarification on that too, since given how it's actually worded, that means even a fully trained Deryni still has less than a 50% chance of doing something as basic as creating handfire, which seems skewed unless there is some way to have a "practice makes perfect" factor built in. I can see odds that low for a Deryni just learning how to use basic powers, but not for someone brought up using them, even if they haven't fully completed training in the non-basics.
I'm now confused too as I initially read it the same as Evie.
Quote from: Laurna on January 27, 2018, 10:40:28 PM
QuoteQuote from: Laurna on January 27, 2018, 01:40:08 pm
Example 2) What about Mind speech? A character is talking in their head and broadcasting it to another person. They are not doing anything to that other person. So NO roll of the dice required? It would be up to the other person if they have their shields up or down to receive that speech. Yes?
QuoteQuote from: BYNW
On this one. The Sender of the Mind Speech generally wouldn't have to roll, unless they wanted to force the communication on someone who is unwilling. And of course since Mind Speech is pretty much a broadcast, like radio, it can be picked up by others who are not the intended recipient. But that roll would have to be made by the other person of course.
I don't think the actual conversation of Focused Mind Speech can be heard or understood by others. I do believe that other Deryni outside the conversation, if their shields are open, can detect the magic that is being used. However, they can not hear the details of what is said.
One example where I am thinking of: is when Alaric is lying prostate on the cathedral floor during his re-infolding ceremony into the church, both he and Duncan use Mind Speech, they were not in physical contact with each other, yet they were using focused Mind Speech. They also were calling out to make contact with Derry who was far far away. Denis Arilan was standing very close. Denis detects Alaric using magic, but he can not hear the words Duncan and Alaric say to one another. I am certain that Arilan would have used all his powers to find out what was going on. But he couldn't discover it. He had to wait until the ritual was over before he confronted Alaric. Very upset he was too, at Alaric for using magic in the church and not knowing why.
That's helpful Laurna. I'm thinking of mind speech as acting on a number of frequencies which can be fine tuned - the closer the physical or emotional contact the narrower the bandwidth, if I can use that analogy. The use of Deryni "sniffers" in the early days of the Regency suggests that the use of Deryni powers is detectable by another Deryni even if there is no outward sign. I'm just rereading TBH and Morgan, Arilan and Cardiel are discussing Judhael. Morgan does not dare probe Cardiel any deeper with Arilan present, suggesting that any use of his powers would be obvious to Arilan. However in fairness at this point in their relationship almost anything Morgan does arouses Arilan's suspicion and vice-versa.
Quote from: Laurna on January 27, 2018, 10:55:11 PM
Quote from: Bynw on January 27, 2018, 06:17:42 PM
Quote from: Laurna on January 27, 2018, 01:40:08 PM
Bynw, can I have a clarification for when to roll dice
Example 1) using Handfire or lighting a flame to the campfire or something that does not have to do with another character. I do NOT need to roll for these things.
Generally speaking, no you would need to roll to create a ball of Handfire or create flame to light a campfire or candle. However if another Deryni wanted to take control of the Handfire you created. Then yes you would have to roll then and so would the other person wanting control.
OK. So I must roll the dice to create Handfire, (this is a Power Trait ability). If I fail, I should be able to roll again as a second attempt, roll again as a third attempt, and a fourth. As long as I am not being attack and the characters around me don't start laughing in my face.
"Hahah! Five times? It took you five tries to get that light over your head? My seven year old daughter has better control of Handfire than you do. hahah!"
It should be like practice-makes-perfect; so lots of practice should be acceptable. (only the dice rolls never seem to improve with multiple rolls, At least not if I am rolling)
No. You don't need to roll to create it. Only time there would be a roll for Handfire is if someone is trying to take control of the Handfire you created. Or if you are trying to burn down a building with a HUGE flame.
I just noticed I was missing a word in my original reply. Sorry about making it more confusing than it already was. So to clarify. NO ROLL NEEDED TO CREATE HANDFIRE. OR TO LIGHT A FEW CANDLES WITH IT. OR EVEN NUDGE A SMALL FLAME TO MAKE IT FLAIR UP. OR TO EXTINGUISH YOUR OWN CREATION.
Rolls would be needed if someone was to take control of the Handfire you created. Or if you were trying to make something burn that was large.
Quote from: Bynw on January 28, 2018, 09:31:47 AM
No. You don't need to roll to create it. Only time there would be a roll for Handfire is if someone is trying to take control of the Handfire you created. Or if you are trying to burn down a building with a HUGE flame.
I just noticed I was missing a word in my original reply. Sorry about making it more confusing than it already was. So to clarify. NO ROLL NEEDED TO CREATE HANDFIRE. OR TO LIGHT A FEW CANDLES WITH IT. OR EVEN NUDGE A SMALL FLAME TO MAKE IT FLAIR UP. OR TO EXTINGUISH YOUR OWN CREATION.
Rolls would be needed if someone was to take control of the Handfire you created. Or if you were trying to make something burn that was large.
I thought creating handfire and lighting actual flame (such as a candle or a hearth fire) were two different skills. It seems like I recall several characters mentioning that handfire is (unlike an actual flame) cool to the touch.
In other words, I don't think you can burn
anything with handfire; burning something large (a bonfire, a building, whatever) would be a different category of magic/psionic power use.
Sorry, I don't mean to add to the confusion. :-\
Quote from: DesertRose on January 28, 2018, 10:15:31 AM
I thought creating handfire and lighting actual flame (such as a candle or a hearth fire) were two different skills. It seems like I recall several characters mentioning that handfire is (unlike an actual flame) cool to the touch.
In other words, I don't think you can burn anything with handfire; burning something large (a bonfire, a building, whatever) would be a different category of magic/psionic power use.
Sorry, I don't mean to add to the confusion. :-\
Actually not according to Deryni Magic.
Quote
Lighting and extinguishing fire is a side application of handfire conjuration. We see the two linked as Camber conjures handfire in the hidden Michaeline chapel after his ordination to the priesthood, just before magically extinguishing all the remaining candies in the chapel save the Presence light.
Quote from: Bynw on January 28, 2018, 10:57:48 AM
Quote from: DesertRose on January 28, 2018, 10:15:31 AM
I thought creating handfire and lighting actual flame (such as a candle or a hearth fire) were two different skills. It seems like I recall several characters mentioning that handfire is (unlike an actual flame) cool to the touch.
In other words, I don't think you can burn anything with handfire; burning something large (a bonfire, a building, whatever) would be a different category of magic/psionic power use.
Sorry, I don't mean to add to the confusion. :-\
Actually not according to Deryni Magic.
Quote
Lighting and extinguishing fire is a side application of handfire conjuration. We see the two linked as Camber conjures handfire in the hidden Michaeline chapel after his ordination to the priesthood, just before magically extinguishing all the remaining candies in the chapel save the Presence light.
Okay, I don't have
Deryni Magic handy, but in
The King's Justice when Jehana is talking to Bishop Arilan about the "change" in Father Ambros' lesson, the bishop conjures handfire that is described as "cool, quicksilver light," and I'm pretty sure that this point isn't the only time handfire is described as "cool." (But because of the whole bug mess in my erstwhile flat, almost all of my books are in boxes to ensure I won't bring any bugs to my new place. I looked that quote up on my Kindle edition of TKJ, so I'm not sure on what page it is featured in any of the paper editions.)
I can see how conjuring handfire and conjuring actual flame would be fairly similar processes, but I still don't see how handfire can actually
burn anything; all it seems to be (aside evidence that someone is Deryni ;D ) is light.
Quote from: DesertRose on January 28, 2018, 11:16:32 AM
Okay, I don't have Deryni Magic handy, but in The King's Justice when Jehana is talking to Bishop Arilan about the "change" in Father Ambros' lesson, the bishop conjures handfire that is described as "cool, quicksilver light," and I'm pretty sure that this point isn't the only time handfire is described as "cool." (But because of the whole bug mess in my erstwhile flat, almost all of my books are in boxes to ensure I won't bring any bugs to my new place. I looked that quote up on my Kindle edition of TKJ, so I'm not sure on what page it is featured in any of the paper editions.)
I can see how conjuring handfire and conjuring actual flame would be fairly similar processes, but I still don't see how handfire can actually burn anything; all it seems to be (aside evidence that someone is Deryni ;D ) is light.
Handfire is cool to the touch. Yes this is mentioned several times. Handfire can be pressed into patterns as well. But Conjuring Flame is related to Handfire. Thus they are the same power just a slightly different usage and mindset. It is still, in game terms, part of the Power Trait. And using it for minor things, like a ball of light to see by or by actually burning candles or lighting a small fire. Rolling is not required. Doing other things with it would require a roll.
Okay, that makes sense. :D
Like I said above, I can see how conjuring handfire and lighting an actual flame would be very similar processes and thus aspects of the same skill/power, or at least roughly the same.
So, to make sure this is all clear in my head....
Darcy is Deryni, but unaware of that fact (though growing suspicious of it by this time). If Aliset tried to teach him to create hand fire, the first time Darcy tried it, he would need to roll the dice. Once successful, since this is a relatively simple skill, he would not need to roll the dice. The first time he would try to use the related skill to light a small fire, he would need to roll the dice for that initial success (or alas, failure).
Quote from: Jerusha on January 28, 2018, 11:55:28 AM
So, to make sure this is all clear in my head....
Darcy is Deryni, but unaware of that fact (though growing suspicious of it by this time). If Aliset tried to teach him to create hand fire, the first time Darcy tried it, he would need to roll the dice. Once successful, since this is a relatively simple skill, he would not need to roll the dice. The first time he would try to use the related skill to light a small fire, he would need to roll the dice for that initial success (or alas, failure).
Pretty much. That is correct. You could do the first roll at a Disadvantage as well to represent his lack of initial skill as well if you wanted to do so, not required though.
Quote from: Laurna on January 27, 2018, 10:40:28 PM
[
One example where I am thinking of: is when Alaric is lying prostate on the cathedral floor during his re-infolding ceremony into the church, both he and Duncan use Mind Speech, they were not in physical contact with each other, yet they were using focused Mind Speech. They also were calling out to make contact with Derry who was far far away. Denis Arilan was standing very close. Denis detects Alaric using magic, but he can not hear the words Duncan and Alaric say to one another. I am certain that Arilan would have used all his powers to find out what was going on. But he couldn't discover it. He had to wait until the ritual was over before he confronted Alaric. Very upset he was too, at Alaric for using magic in the church and not knowing why.
I need to make a correction: I reread this scene, and I apologize, what I thought had been Mind Speech between Alaric and Duncan had actually just been whispers between them and a lot of understanding each other's body language. Alaric did use all his focused magic to locate Lord Derry who was in the evil hands of Wencit. Arilan could not understand what Alaric used his magic for. Alas, it ruins my example listed above for No Mind Speech was used.
And Alaric was calling out to the Medallion that Derry had as well. So even if he made contact. It would have been private communication. Denis would have been able to detect the use of magic. And maybe even determine it was Mind Speech. But the content wouldnt be known.
I'm rereading QFSC, and happened on the passage where Duncan and Morgan are escorting Rasoul and the rest of the Torenthi party back to Desse:
Riding to either side of the Deryni Rasoul, it had been necessary to forbear exchanging speculations about Cardiel and Arilan, though both men longed to do so. Verbal discussion might have revealed far more than a Torenthi ambassador ought to know about the inner affairs of Kelson's court. And while, in theory, a mind-to-mind exchange could have been effected without Rasoul's knowledge, that was not possible in fact--not while carrying on a conversation with their guest.
So that reads to me like the inherent problem was that Rasoul might overhear, even though he's a fully trained Deryni, but that it would have been impossible for Alaric and Deryni to focus on direct mind-to-mind communication while simultaneously carrying on a verbal conversation with Rasoul, which makes total sense. But since the text says it would be theoretically possible were it not for the need to keep up a vocal conversation, I would read this as meaning one could engage in Mind-Speech with someone else, at least someone nearby, with the expectation that even a fully-trained Deryni would not be able to eavesdrop on the conversation, although as mentioned earlier in the thread, they could probably detect that some use of powers was going on and might therefore deduce that a conversation they aren't privy to is happening in front of them.
I see we have come back to the question. Which is basically:
Is Mind-Speech private or public.The answer to that is yes. It is actually both at the same time. Yes another Deryni is able to overhear and eavesdrop on Mind-Speech conversations. And yes there are ways to prevent it from happening.
How to prevent Mind-Speech from being overheard
- Be in physical contact
- Use a Mind Link Medallion (Morgan and Derry, Even the giant Shiral crystal used by the Camberian Council to call its members is of the same sort of thing.)
- Establish Rapport with the other
How to have Mind-Speech overheard by another Deryni
- Attempting long range Mind-Speech without some kind of Mind Link Medallion
- Not being in physical contact of the other party
- I'm sure there is something else here that I'm not thinking of ...
However in order for the above to happen. The Deryni that is going to eavesdrop or overhear the conversation has to meet a few things too.
- They must know or otherwise suspect that Mind-Speech is in use
- They must be located somewhere that they can overhear it. A Deryni in Rhemuth using Mind-Speech unaided to call his friend, also in Rhemuth isn't going to be overheard by a Deryni in Culdi. Or a Deryni likewise in Rhemuth attempting to contact a Deryni in Cassan isn't going to be overheard in Torenth. There are some exceptions of course to everything but under most circumstances this is true.
- In game terms. They will need to make a couple of rolls. One to detect the use of Magic being done and the 2nd to successfully eavesdrop.
Clear as mud?