I'm new to the website, though I've been a faithful fan of the Deryni since I was ten, and I thought I'd start out with a sort of idea/question. This is probably going to go a lot deeper than KK had ever intended while writing the books, but I'm just the kind of person who analyzes everything down to the smallest speck. I apologize in advance for the long-winded nature of this post, but once I started, I couldn't seem to stop. Anyway, I was bouncing some fanfic ideas around in my mind (as my brain refuses to allow me to sleep until I've tortured at least one or two of the Deryni), and I got to wondering what happened to Caeriesse. I was stupid enough to Google it, which led me to this:
http://www.rhemuthcastle.com/index.php/topic,93.0
When I had read through both pages, I found this: http://www.rhemuthcastle.com/index.php?topic=785.0
After going through several similar threads, I decided to do some poking around. I never found the mentioned fanfic, but I did find a lot of very interesting information. After extensive and thorough searches, I decided to write a sort of "History of the Deryni" type fanfic spanning (at least this is the plan) from the start of the Deryni gene or from the Airsid all the way forward until I have (hopefully) a culture of space-faring Deryni and humans. It's a lot of work, but I have a lot of free time and enough motivation that I once completely reworked the timelines for my own fanfic writing convenience.
This leads me to the point of my admittedly patchy knowledge of Deryni customs and history. I want to make the parts set in Camber-era and the chronologically later books at least semi-canonical. I'm also not sure which of the Eleven Kingdoms I should base my story in. I know I want it to start in Caeriesse, as it is implied that the first Deryni were from there. But after Caeriesse sinks, I have no idea. I want known and suspected Deryni to be able to survive, but I definitely don't want it to be easy for them. A couple extremes are Torenth, where being Deryni is hardly given a second thought, and Gwynedd in the years directly post-Ramos (look at the "minor plague" in Camber the Heretic). I don't want either, but I do want it leaning more toward the latter example. I don't really want it set in Gwynedd, but I do want my characters to experience the effects of the Statutes of Ramos.
Writing canonically compliant fics is hardly my specialty, but this idea was impossible to pass up. The issue is that I don't have a copy of the Codex yet, so I don't have access to all of the information about the Deryni universe. One last thing is that I need suggestions for names. I can't use the main characters' names, but, again, I have to keep it canon so they can't have names like Penny or River either. Suggestions? I'll probably be asking a lot of stuff like this, sice I most definitely don't have the best knowledge on the Eleven Kingdoms (not that I plan to keep my characters there permanently) and I have several theories that might not be received well if I just put them in without warning.
To address the fanfic you couldn't find, in the first link, the stories mentioned in that thread were probably in back issues of Deryni Archives, the Zine (as opposed to Deryni Archives, the collection of short stories written by Katherine Kurtz and published in paperback in 1986), and might be hard to find without having access to those issues, or possibly in Deryni Tales, which was a paperback collection of fanfiction edited by Katherine Kurtz (and I think included a story or two she had written herself).
The stories mentioned in the second thread can be found here: http://www.rhemuthcastle.com/index.php/board,91.0.html MerchantDeryni has gone inactive, though; I haven't seen that user on the forum in quite a while, so I'm not sure if those stories are complete and they may not ever be if they aren't.
It is probably worth your time and money, if you have it, to acquire a copy of the second edition of Codex; it's a large paperback and should not be nearly as expensive as the limited-edition hardback first edition.
Also, you can try popping into the chat room, even at times other than Sunday evening KK chats, because sometimes some of us are in there and will be willing to bounce around ideas with you if we're in chat.
QuoteI'm also not sure which of the Eleven Kingdoms I should base my story in. I know I want it to start in Caeriesse, as it is implied that the first Deryni were from there. But after Caeriesse sinks, I have no idea. I want known and suspected Deryni to be able to survive, but I definitely don't want it to be easy for them. A couple extremes are Torenth, where being Deryni is hardly given a second thought, and Gwynedd in the years directly post-Ramos (look at the "minor plague" in Camber the Heretic). I don't want either, but I do want it leaning more toward the latter example. I don't really want it set in Gwynedd, but I do want my characters to experience the effects of the Statutes of Ramos.
First off, welcome!
If you don't want your story set in Gwynedd, but you want the characters to experience the effects of the Statutes of Ramos, one idea to consider is setting your story in one of the neighboring Eleven Kingdoms where Deryni refugees from Gwynedd might have escaped to once it became too dangerous for them to remain in Gwynedd. Granted, it would take some resources (financial at the very least) for these Deryni to be able to move out of the kingdom in the first place and make a fresh start elsewhere. They'd either need some sort of trade skills that would be in demand elsewhere, or family connections, or some other way to establish a new home base elsewhere. Knowledge of the local language would be a definite plus also. So I think you'd either be looking at well-educated nobility or perhaps someone from the merchant class (who would, if their trade ventures were extensive enough, have the necessary exposure to the neighboring foreign languages and perhaps already have business contacts established outside of Gwynedd). Setting a story in a lesser-known kingdom such as, for instance, Fianna also makes your job a little easier because there is less canonical stuff set there that you might accidentally contradict.
QuoteOne last thing is that I need suggestions for names. I can't use the main characters' names, but, again, I have to keep it canon so they can't have names like Penny or River either. Suggestions?
There are various listings available online of both male and female names from the medieval period, which you can find doing a Google keyword search such as "medieval names." The websites that draw their names lists from period documents are likely to yield better results than the "baby names and their meanings" sort of websites. Here is just one website I found online: http://www.infernaldreams.com/names/Europe/Medieval/England.htm
I heartily second DesertRose's suggestion to acquire a copy of the
Codex as soon as possible, because it is an excellent resource, not to mention a treasure trove of information that can inspire new fanfic ideas. Another surprisingly good resource, although it was created with role-playing gamers rather than fanfic writers in mind, is the
Deryni Adventure Game sourcebook. I also have a copy of the Eleven Kingdoms poster map above my writing desk. It has a mileage key on it, making it easier to guesstimate how long it should take to travel from City A to Town B. (Though be forewarned, even in the canonical books, Gwynedd has some seriously elastic roads as KK's ideas on the size of her kingdom apparently changed over the years, not to mention that sometimes story needs had to take precedence over the various versions of the Kingdom map! ;D )
Thanks. That's helpful in multiple ways (one of which is that I had forgotten that Fianna existed ;D.
Quote from: Rae Lyn Morgan on May 01, 2017, 03:51:22 PM
Thanks. That's helpful in multiple ways (one of which is that I had forgotten that Fianna existed ;D.
Oh, but it has the best wine! ;D
That it does, Evie. :D
The advantage of Fanfic is you can pretty much do anything with it. Except a few notable restrictions place by Katherine herself as noted in the fanfic boards area.
You could even do an alternative history. Have everything the same up to the point when the Festil's take control of Gwynedd. But instead of the human restoration done by Camber and his kin. There plot is discovered early and the rebellion is crushed and the Haldane line extinguished forever. Still have a Statues of Ramos but have them against humans instead of the Deryni. That would be a good read.
Welcome. Lovely to have someone else on board. Especially a writer. It occurred to me to wonder if Bremagme might be a good place. The Statutes of Ramon wouldn't apply but there is clearly a strong anti-Deryni current in parts of the Church or Jehana would not have been so screwed up.
Who was Ramon, and what were his Statutes??? :) (Just kidding, I know you mean Ramos.)
Bremagne could stand more coverage, so could most of the Forcinn States and Torenth.
The perils of typing whilst on a bus travelling along windy Highland roads at excessive speed.
Quote from: revanne on May 03, 2017, 04:30:53 PM
The perils of typing whilst on a bus travelling along windy Highland roads at excessive speed.
Hopefully not while driving! ;D
Revanne, I wish you steady nerves while being in a bus, traveling at excessive speeds down a highland road on a windy day. Sounds like a white knuckle ride to me.
Rye Lyn Morgan, welcome to the forum. And welcome to the joys and difficulties of writing fan-ficiton. Believe me, about now, I am well versed in both. Fortunately I am surrounded by fantastic people on this forum who share in this same joy. I owned the Codex for years, at first I only looked up my favorite characters. But more recently, I began exploring the depths of the Codex. KK has laid out so much of her world in those pages. It is an inspiration for your imagination to want to embellish on what you find. You will not be disappointed in your purchase of this book.
Quote from: revanne on May 03, 2017, 11:28:09 AM
Welcome. Lovely to have someone else on board. Especially a writer. It occurred to me to wonder if Bremagme might be a good place. The Statutes of Ramon wouldn't apply but there is clearly a strong anti-Deryni current in parts of the Church or Jehana would not have been so screwed up.
If I recall correctly, the Church of Gwynedd was originally part of the Church of Bremagne but broke away as Gwynedd emerged as a kingdom. There are examples of Bremagne-trained priests doing quite well in the Church of Gwynedd so presumably there are still ties.
In my own fic, set in 1025, I had a Gwynedd Deryni who'd escaped to Bremagne where he could be come a priest note that he was still expected to be discreet. My thinking was that the prejudice was creeping south due to interactions between the two churchs (and possibly some 'missionary' Gwynedd priests offended that Deryni were practising outside their borders).
There's probably scope for fics just exploring international ecclesiastical politics in the Eleven Kingdoms.
Quote from: drakensis on May 04, 2017, 03:05:53 AM
Quote from: revanne on May 03, 2017, 11:28:09 AM
Welcome. Lovely to have someone else on board. Especially a writer. It occurred to me to wonder if Bremagme might be a good place. The Statutes of Ramon wouldn't apply but there is clearly a strong anti-Deryni current in parts of the Church or Jehana would not have been so screwed up.
If I recall correctly, the Church of Gwynedd was originally part of the Church of Bremagne but broke away as Gwynedd emerged as a kingdom. There are examples of Bremagne-trained priests doing quite well in the Church of Gwynedd so presumably there are still ties.
In my own fic, set in 1025, I had a Gwynedd Deryni who'd escaped to Bremagne where he could be come a priest note that he was still expected to be discreet. My thinking was that the prejudice was creeping south due to interactions between the two churchs (and possibly some 'missionary' Gwynedd priests offended that Deryni were practising outside their borders).
There's probably scope for fics just exploring international ecclesiastical politics in the Eleven Kingdoms.
IIRC, Thomas Cardiel was from Bremagne, so while there might indeed be some "southern creep" of Gwyneddan prejudices into that kingdom's Church hierarchy (enough so that it affected Jehana's convent education), I would think it is not too all-pervasive yet, or their seminaries probably would not still be producing sympathetically-minded clergy.
Cardiel becomes sympathetically minded but he is not so in the first instance, or at least that is how I read his conversations with Arilan in HD about the Deryni issue. IIRC he has always accepted, up until this point, that Deryni are evil and it is his own generous nature and fair-mindedness that have caused him to reconsider. It may be that the Bremagme Church has been influenced sufficiently by the Gwyneddian Church to take it as read that Deryni are evil but without active persecution. And of course if they don't have the "hand of God" nasty trick with merasha at ordinations then there is nothing to stop Deryni priests from slipping under the radar as long as they don't use their powers.
I never read that scene in HD as Cardiel being opposed to Deryni so much as simply not knowing all that much about them, and realizing that he doesn't know, but open to being convinced that maybe the Church of Gwynedd's opinion on them is wrong, or at least not altogether correct. Remember, from the beginning of the book, Cardiel was the leader of the small faction of bishops who chose to defy the Curia's decision to place Corwyn under Interdict. Granted, that could speak more for his concern for the souls of the people of Corwyn rather than for Alaric Morgan himself, but in the first conversation we see between him and Arilan, he comes across as very neutral rather than biased in his opinion. Of course, he is hardly pro-Deryni at this point, and the anti-Deryni rumors that he has heard are of concern to him, but he is not personally anti-Deryni either. He thinks Duncan should not have sought ordination knowing that he is Deryni, and yet the reasoning behind his opinion seems to be that Duncan knew he was seeking ordination in defiance of Gwyneddan canon and civil law, not because he thought Duncan was innately evil because he was Deryni. He seems to have not made up his mind yet on the question of whether Deryni are inherently evil, and is open to the idea that there might have been extenuating circumstances behind Alaric's and Duncan's burning of St Torin's, circumstances that he hopes they will trust him and Arilan enough to share if such extenuating reasons exist, since he says he likes most of what he has heard about both men up to this point, and even thinks (though he disagrees with Duncan's decision to become ordained) that Duncan seems to have been a good priest. None of this sounds to me like a man who has already prejudged that Deryni are inherently evil, or he'd have many more reservations about Alaric and Duncan. He sounds more like a man who is questioning (and has been for some time, given that this is not the first time he and Arilan have discussed the Deryni Question) the official party line of the Church of Gwynedd when it comes to Deryni. What the hardliners of the Church have parroted about the Deryni does not line up with what he has observed personally, and thus he is not convinced, but he is willing to be open to whatever evidence might be provided that either side is right. Arilan (a man whose opinion he clearly trusts) has already told him in an earlier conversation that he thinks that some individual Deryni might be evil, just like individual humans might be, but that he doesn't think the entire race is evil. Cardiel is not wholly convinced yet because of the rumors of Deryni conspiracies that have reached his years, yet despite those rumors, he still has enough doubt about the inherent evil of Deryni to hope in Alaric's and Duncan's innocence. He reads very much to me like a man who is still on the fence, but beginning to doubt the hysteria fostered by Loris's faction more and more, and who very much wants to discover the truth about the Deryni (and more specifically Alaric and Duncan), whatever that truth might be, and regardless of whatever Gwyneddan canon law might presently say.
I agree with Evie re: Cardiel. He reads as open-minded and on the fence re: Deryni in general, in High Deryni; he never reads to me as anywhere near as anti-Deryni as some other clergy *coughLoriscoughGoronycough*.