The Worlds of Katherine Kurtz

The Deryni Series => The Childe Morgan => Topic started by: revanne on March 09, 2015, 04:44:19 PM

Title: Campaign for the canonisation of Jorian
Post by: revanne on March 09, 2015, 04:44:19 PM
Thinking about Duncan's Ordination as I am at the moment - (intending to post Maundy Thursday, Holy Saturday and Easter Sunday. There I've given myself a deadline!) it more and more occurs to me how pivotal Jorian's self-sacrifice was. it seems relatively easy to be canonised in the Church of Gwynedd so am hereby starting a campaign for the elevation of St. Jorian the Martyr to the Altars.
Title: Re: Campaign for the canonisation of Jorian
Post by: Evie on March 09, 2015, 04:46:41 PM
I'm good with it.  ;)
Title: Re: Campaign for the canonisation of Jorian
Post by: Evie on March 09, 2015, 05:16:55 PM
Hm...does TKD or the Codex mention the date of Jorian's execution?  I'm wondering if the dates would work for inserting a mention of "St. Jorian's Day" into my future-era Deryni story.
Title: Re: Campaign for the canonisation of Jorian
Post by: revanne on March 09, 2015, 05:27:45 PM
It's in the "Priesting of Arilan" as Martinmas, which is November 11th. Perhaps he could be celebrated on the day of his priesting which was about three months before (but would have to check out whether an actual date was given) - as the unknown voice shouts out, he was actually validly ordained.
Title: Re: Campaign for the canonisation of Jorian
Post by: Jerusha on March 09, 2015, 09:43:16 PM
I absolutely endorse the idea!  (Not that I've ever had any influence on sainthood.  :) )

Seriously though, I can't imagine the torment he went through - resolute in his faith, but facing an excruciating trial.   He endured with grace.   
Title: Re: Campaign for the canonisation of Jorian
Post by: Aerlys on March 10, 2015, 12:20:10 PM
I second...er...third the motion. Maybe someone can work in a few miracles worked by St. Jorian into their fanfic.
Title: Re: Campaign for the canonisation of Jorian
Post by: Evie on March 10, 2015, 01:27:32 PM
I imagine St. Jorian would be the patron saint of Deryni priests, wouldn't he?  That seems like it would be a given.
Title: Re: Campaign for the canonisation of Jorian
Post by: DesertRose on March 10, 2015, 01:36:58 PM
Quote from: Evie on March 10, 2015, 01:27:32 PM
I imagine St. Jorian would be the patron saint of Deryni priests, wouldn't he?  That seems like it would be a given.

Darn all y'all for giving me more ideas for the stalled 1366 story.  :D

But yes, it does seem reasonable for him to be canonized as a martyr and to be the patron saint of Deryni priests.
Title: Re: Campaign for the canonisation of Jorian
Post by: Evie on March 10, 2015, 01:53:33 PM
Quote from: DesertRose on March 10, 2015, 01:36:58 PM
Quote from: Evie on March 10, 2015, 01:27:32 PM
I imagine St. Jorian would be the patron saint of Deryni priests, wouldn't he?  That seems like it would be a given.

Darn all y'all for giving me more ideas for the stalled 1366 story.  :D

But yes, it does seem reasonable for him to be canonized as a martyr and to be the patron saint of Deryni priests.

Anything to help, DR.  ;)
Title: Re: Campaign for the canonisation of Jorian
Post by: revanne on March 10, 2015, 04:29:15 PM
Quote from: Aerlys on March 10, 2015, 12:20:10 PM
I second...er...third the motion. Maybe someone can work in a few miracles worked by St. Jorian into their fanfic.

Umm... that's given me an idea :D

Title: Re: Campaign for the canonisation of Jorian
Post by: DesertRose on March 10, 2015, 09:57:55 PM
I'm guessing we should ping KK about this, but if he is to be canonized (at least in fandom) as St. Jorian the Martyr, I would think his saint's day would be the day of his martyrdom/execution.

Aerlys, I think you know way more about this topic than I do.  Care to agree with me or correct me if I'm wrong?  :D
Title: Re: Campaign for the canonisation of Jorian
Post by: Aerlys on March 10, 2015, 11:03:35 PM
Quote from: DesertRose on March 10, 2015, 09:57:55 PMI would think his saint's day would be the day of his martyrdom/execution.

Aerlys, I think you know way more about this topic than I do.  Care to agree with me or correct me if I'm wrong?  :D

Yes, DR, usually a saint's feast day is the day they died. It is not unusual for two unrelated saints to have the same feast day, but normally one saint takes precedence in the liturgy, with either a commemoration of the other saint during Mass (a second collect/secret/postcommunion prayer), or no official Mass at all. Alternately, a second, private Mass for the saint may be said in some churches in lieu of the other saint. Sometimes, though, a feast day is observed on different day, but I would have to double check if there is a particular reason for it.

I would hazard a guess that St. Martin would take precedence, at least at first, across the 11 Kingdoms, but hopefully St. Jorian gets a commemoration. He may later merit a special Mass in Deryni congregations that may eventually take over Martinmas if his cultus becomes more popular, especially if he proves a more powerful intercession. Evie can fill us in on how that goes in her fanfic.  Those would he ever be become as popular as St.Camber?

Title: Re: Campaign for the canonisation of Jorian
Post by: DesertRose on March 10, 2015, 11:14:11 PM
Thank you, Aerlys.  That's good information to have.  :)

I went nosing around online and found that a lot of days have multiple saints associated with them.

I have a germ of an idea that Denis Arilan might be the first person to campaign for the canonization of Jorian, maybe a few years after the events of KKB.  Hmm...

Patron saint of Deryni priests to be sure, but possibly also patron saint of martyred/murdered Deryni in general?
Title: Re: Campaign for the canonisation of Jorian
Post by: revanne on March 11, 2015, 04:20:21 AM
I suspect that Arilan is going to have support from a possibly unexpected quarter and I already have an idea about the miracles.
Title: Re: Campaign for the canonisation of Jorian
Post by: Evie on March 11, 2015, 07:19:54 AM
Quote from: DesertRose on March 10, 2015, 11:14:11 PM

Patron saint of Deryni priests to be sure, but possibly also patron saint of martyred/murdered Deryni in general?

I like this idea.
Title: Re: Campaign for the canonisation of Jorian
Post by: Jerusha on March 11, 2015, 09:41:25 AM
Quote from: revanne on March 11, 2015, 04:20:21 AM
I suspect that Arilan is going to have support from a possibly unexpected quarter and I already have an idea about the miracles.

I am looking forward to this!  :)
Title: Re: Campaign for the canonisation of Jorian
Post by: DesertRose on March 12, 2015, 12:01:42 AM
Phooey on all y'all.  :)

I now have just under 1000 words of a story on how Jorian comes to be canonized, largely at the instigation of our favorite curmudgeonly Bishop Arilan.

And I'm still stalled on 1366.

And I need to go to sleep; it's 1:00 a.m. my time.
Title: Re: Campaign for the canonisation of Jorian
Post by: Evie on March 12, 2015, 07:01:05 AM
Oh nooo, you poor thing, having to stay up late to get 1000 words of a story down in one night, while I sit here with writer's block, unable to figure out how to start my next scene, which has been patiently waiting for weeks! If only I could take your burden from you . . . . ;) ;D
Title: Re: Campaign for the canonisation of Jorian
Post by: DesertRose on March 12, 2015, 08:32:08 AM
LOL, well, some of this story is your fault anyway, Evie, since you were helping me brainstorm.  :D
Title: Re: Campaign for the canonisation of Jorian
Post by: Evie on March 12, 2015, 10:33:42 AM
Story of my life. I can come up with ten thousand ideas for someone else's story before I can come up with ten words to string together into a sentence for my own. :)
Title: Re: Campaign for the canonisation of Jorian
Post by: Curlytop on March 29, 2015, 03:53:23 AM
According to my codex, Jorian was:
    Born on 26 December 1083 (clashes with St. Stephen)
    Priested on 1 August 1104 (clashes with Lammas)
    Executed on 11 November 1104 (clashes with St. Martin).

The only notable date in his history which does not clash is that of his trial (1 September 1104) so possibly that coould become St. Jorian's Day.