• Welcome to The Worlds of Katherine Kurtz.
 

Recent

Welcome to The Worlds of Katherine Kurtz. Please login.

March 28, 2024, 07:46:07 AM

Login with username, password and session length
Members
Stats
  • Total Posts: 27,480
  • Total Topics: 2,721
  • Online today: 180
  • Online ever: 930
  • (January 20, 2020, 11:58:07 AM)
Users Online
Users: 0
Guests: 46
Total: 46
Google (3)

Latest Shout

*

DerynifanK

March 17, 2024, 03:48:44 PM
Happy St Patrick's Day. Enjoy the one day of the year when the whole world is Irish.

Healer's Symbol Patches

Started by DesertRose, October 24, 2017, 12:36:45 PM

Previous topic - Next topic

0 Members and 3 Guests are viewing this topic.

DesertRose

So I found a site (located here: https://www.stadriemblems.com/blog/guide-making-your-first-embroidered-patch/ ) that will make embroidered patches using a design you give them.  The prices vary depending upon how large the patch is, how complex the design is, and what percentage of the patch's area is covered in embroidery.

Re that last, if one designed a Healer's patch, one could use green fabric for the background, and thus the finished patch would need only the white hand pierced with the green eight-pointed star embroidered onto it, or vice versa for the Gabrilite-specific Healer's badge.

Not that anyone around here would want such a thing (if KK allows the use of her design, of course). . .  ;)
"If having a soul means being able to feel love, loyalty, and gratitude, then animals are better off than a lot of humans."

James Herriot (James Alfred "Alfie" Wight), when a human client asked him if animals have souls.  (I don't remember in which book the story originally appeared.)

Evie

The miniature badge I made for KK's Rhys action figure was made from a photo of a badge that she (or one of her fans?) had used a punch needle to make.  You can buy the tool at Michaels, Hobby Lobby, or other hobby stores that sell needlecrafting accessories.  Here is a web page that gives a brief overview of how it is done: https://www.wikihow.com/Needle-Punch. The front of the badge ends up with a loopy pile surface (sort of like terry cloth, but in the badge I saw, the pile was set very close together, which made it feel smoother, more like a soft carpet rather than as nubbly as a towel. Actually, some dollhouse artists use the same tool for creating miniature carpets.
"In necessariis unitas, in non-necessariis libertas, in utrisque caritas."

--WARNING!!!--
I have a vocabulary in excess of 75,000 words, and I'm not afraid to use it!

HoundMistress

So do we think that the green on the Corwyn Griffin denotes Healers in the lineage?
Judy Ward
You can buy a pretty good dog with money but you can't buy the wag of its tail.

revanne

Interesting. Green in a coat of arms could originally have denoted that but as time went on and healers faded from memory the origins would have been forgotten. Having said that, there are other residents of this Castle who are more knowledgable in the noble science of heraldry and who would know whether the idea is possible in heraldric terms.
God is our refuge and strength, a very present help in trouble.
(Psalm 46 v1)

DesertRose

Well, here's a link to a list (from a company that designs modern heraldry, such as school crests and the like) of what each color symbolizes in heraldry.

https://www.fleurdelis.com/meanings.htm

And another site that seems primitive on the web-design end of things, but from my small experience with heraldry in SCA contexts, it looks like they've done their homework.

https://www.heraldryandcrests.com/pages/test

I tried but wasn't able to find a site that had the symbolism of heraldic tinctures that included a source for their assertions/conclusions.  I'd have liked to have some sort of reference material.   :-\
"If having a soul means being able to feel love, loyalty, and gratitude, then animals are better off than a lot of humans."

James Herriot (James Alfred "Alfie" Wight), when a human client asked him if animals have souls.  (I don't remember in which book the story originally appeared.)

Evie

I don't know if there is an online source similar to the old Fox-Davies book on Heraldry that might give such references, but that would be interesting. I noticed that KK uses "tawny" (aka "tenne" or what we would call orange) as a color in Torenth's device, which the "Heraldry and Crests" link says means "worthy ambition," but years ago I heard that this color isn't used in SCA heraldry because another association with that color (in some countries, at least) was cowardice, so that definitely would not have put it high on the list of preferred colors for SCA fighters!  ;D

I doubt that the green in Corwyn's device was necessarily associated with Healer green unless that was simply the personal association with the color that the first person to bear those arms decided on when the coat of arms was created. (Or perhaps more accurately, when the herald devised the arms for a former Corwyn Healer-Duke?)  For one thing, given that there are so few heraldic colors to pick from to begin with, taking green out of the running for everyone but Healers would make little sense. And of course, once Deryni were on the outs in Gwynedd, everyone would be trying to shed those telltale green devices as quickly as possible!  ;)
"In necessariis unitas, in non-necessariis libertas, in utrisque caritas."

--WARNING!!!--
I have a vocabulary in excess of 75,000 words, and I'm not afraid to use it!

HoundMistress

What made me wonder was the line in DR, I think, that said the Corwyn arms actually defied some heraldic imagery rules. So maybe the first duke requested it because he was a healer or there were healers in the line.
Judy Ward
You can buy a pretty good dog with money but you can't buy the wag of its tail.

HoundMistress

To clarify,  the original duke may have chosen it for his arms because he or family was/were healers or his line originated with a healer (like maybe Rhys & Evaine?)  Not that it would be reserved for healers.
Judy Ward
You can buy a pretty good dog with money but you can't buy the wag of its tail.

DesertRose

Quote from: judywward on October 25, 2017, 04:32:34 PM
What made me wonder was the line in DR, I think, that said the Corwyn arms actually defied some heraldic imagery rules. So maybe the first duke requested it because he was a healer or there were healers in the line.

Yes, the Corwyn arms do defy heraldry rules, because the gryphon is green on a field of black.

Under normal rules of heraldry, one does not place a color (gules/red, sable/black, vert/green, purpure/purple, azure/blue, and tenne/orange are the ones that would have been most often used in the medieval period) on another color; color goes on metal (argent/silver and or/gold, for historical heraldry; copper has been added in modern times and appears on the heraldry of Whitehorse, Yukon Territories, Canada).

It appears that the rule of "color goes on metal, not color-on-color or metal-on-metal" was probably a convention having to do with visibility on the battlefield that ended up codified into a formal rule, even now when heraldry hasn't much to do with wars (although the US Army has a heraldic group for designing unit badges, interestingly enough).

That all being said, vert stands out on a field of sable, so while it's technically a heraldic "sin," it's not of a sort to do anything but annoy the heralds (whereas, say, a banner with a charge in vert on a field of azure might cause a battlefield-visibility issue); it'd still be pretty evident on a battlefield which flag signified the presence of His Grace of Corwyn.  :D
"If having a soul means being able to feel love, loyalty, and gratitude, then animals are better off than a lot of humans."

James Herriot (James Alfred "Alfie" Wight), when a human client asked him if animals have souls.  (I don't remember in which book the story originally appeared.)

whitelaughter

To widen the question slightly - perhaps the colors are linked to the religious orders that family members were most likely to enter, so Gabrielite green, Michaelite blue and so forth? Rather than the nobles ditching the colors, those colors could have been annexed by the orders that sprang up to replace them. Would still indicate a heritage of healing in Corwyn.

WindyCat

Just a tidbit of info regarding heraldic tinctures and the meanings associated with them. It's a Victorian invention. And after studying heraldry in both the SCA and real world for nearly 50 years, I have to say I've never heard of any issues with the color orange, certainly not associated with cowardice. It's not commonly used for the field, but is usually reserved for charges that are tinctures "proper", such as an orange.