The Worlds of Katherine Kurtz

Zipper Sisters and Others => Deryni Movies => Topic started by: Elkhound on April 11, 2014, 01:18:06 pm

Title: Does it have to be a theatrical release?
Post by: Elkhound on April 11, 2014, 01:18:06 pm
Why not a TV series like "Game of Thrones"?
Title: Re: Does it have to be a theatrical release?
Post by: Aerlys on April 11, 2014, 01:27:37 pm
I would speculate that it depends on whether or not the networks think it would get sufficient ratings.

Wonder if the television format would make it easier to stick with the original storyline, or open itself up to little "additions." Hmmm. So long as they don't take as many liberties as the Hobbit movies!
Title: Re: Does it have to be a theatrical release?
Post by: DesertRose on April 11, 2014, 02:13:25 pm
There's certainly enough material in the books to make a decent television series.  :)
Title: Re: Does it have to be a theatrical release?
Post by: Elkhound on April 11, 2014, 02:19:00 pm
I would speculate that it depends on whether or not the networks think it would get sufficient ratings.

Game of Thrones is a similar sprawling Midaeval epic, and it certainly has gotten good enough ratings.
Title: Re: Does it have to be a theatrical release?
Post by: Jerusha on April 11, 2014, 02:20:56 pm
I might worry that they would want to make it more risque or sensational to draw a larger viewing audience.  The stories and characters are strong enough to not need that.
Title: Re: Does it have to be a theatrical release?
Post by: Aerlys on April 11, 2014, 02:48:56 pm
I might worry that they would want to make it more risque or sensational to draw a larger viewing audience.

Unfortunately, I can see that happening. I also doubt they would portray church ceremonies and clergy as respectfully and accurately as Katherine has.
Title: Re: Does it have to be a theatrical release?
Post by: revanne on April 11, 2014, 03:07:34 pm
One of the things I love is that Katherine takes faith seriously, even when it is being distorted and used for wrong ends. I would hate for that to disappear or have a cynical spin put on it.
Title: Re: Does it have to be a theatrical release?
Post by: Elkhound on April 12, 2014, 09:29:43 am
Those things could happen just as easily in a film as a TV series. 

Part of the reason I'd prefer a (mini)series is that for even a LONG film, the story would have to be severely compressed--lots of things taken out.  This would be less necessary in a (mini) series.
Title: Re: Does it have to be a theatrical release?
Post by: tenworld on April 16, 2014, 12:31:42 pm
there is a lot of stuff on cable shows criticizing the catholic church, if they played that angle (I see some similarities between the former pope and a couple bishops in deryniworld), it might get made.  However, the biggest ratings draws in cable series are sex and violence.  KK hasn't been shy about violence, but I fear the sex angle is what draws a lot of the audience.  While I would not mind watching a magic-enhanced bedroom scene, its not in character with these books.  But maybe a generation raised on Harry Potter might provide the ratings needed.
Title: Re: Does it have to be a theatrical release?
Post by: Elkhound on April 30, 2014, 10:34:49 am
Remember the joke about the BBC survey that said that the three most popular subjects by soap-opera viewers were the aristocracy, sex, and medicine.  They concluded that the ideal title for a series would be "Lady Chatterly's Liver."   :)
Title: Re: Does it have to be a theatrical release?
Post by: Aerlys on April 30, 2014, 08:47:22 pm
**aims mackerel launcher**
Title: Re: Does it have to be a theatrical release?
Post by: revanne on May 01, 2014, 01:56:42 am
If we allow that sex in KK is quite rightly left to the imagination and perhaps best rephrased sex-appeal then Rhys and Alaraic fit those criteria very nicely -

Err, my apologies, the Lord Rhys Thuryn and his Grace the Duke of Corwyn.

You'd think a Brit could manage titles properly!
Title: Re: Does it have to be a theatrical release?
Post by: Evie on May 01, 2014, 07:07:59 am
Not to mention all those handsome Haldanes--sure, most of them are just kids to us, but I can see the young teen ladies wanting to plaster posters of Kelson on their walls.  Perhaps even Conall, since there's no accounting for tastes....  ;D
Title: Re: Does it have to be a theatrical release?
Post by: Elkhound on May 01, 2014, 08:54:28 am
Perhaps even Conall, since there's no accounting for tastes....  ;D

http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/AllGirlsWantBadBoys

http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/DracoInLeatherPants

Both these tropes are in play here.  (Although I've never seen a fanfic that made out the case the Conall was "not bad, just misunderstood," although it wouldn't surprise me if there were one out there; it would probably also portray Dhugal and/or Kelson as jerks, but that's another trope: http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/RonTheDeathEater)
Title: Re: Does it have to be a theatrical release?
Post by: Shiral on May 01, 2014, 11:39:05 am
Not to mention all those handsome Haldanes--sure, most of them are just kids to us, but I can see the young teen ladies wanting to plaster posters of Kelson on their walls.  Perhaps even Conall, since there's no accounting for tastes....  ;D

Hey, don't forget Rory and Payne!! They're both growing up nicely I'm sure. And if they take more after their father than their older brother....WELL! 

Ever since watching Robin of Sherwood, Michael Praed's face is just how I view Kelson. But of course I'm not a fangirl at ALL.... =o)

Melissa
Title: Re: Does it have to be a theatrical release?
Post by: revanne on May 02, 2014, 02:29:21 am
They're all gorgeous ( well maybe not Conall, he seems to need to use his arcane powers to have his way with poor Vanissa) but I was thinking Rhys and Alaric because as healers they meet all three soap opera criteria.

Title: Re: Does it have to be a theatrical release?
Post by: Elkhound on September 10, 2014, 12:52:40 pm
I have just been watching "Game of Thrones" on Netflix, and I'm more convinced that the Deryniverse could be developed into a similar series.   
Title: Re: Does it have to be a theatrical release?
Post by: Evie on September 11, 2014, 06:52:39 am
I'd prefer it as a TV series, actually. That would allow for more of the story to be told worth less need to edit and rewrite it to fit the constraints of a movie. Several one-hour episodes per book would be able to show much more than one three-hour (or usually less) movie.
Title: Re: Does it have to be a theatrical release?
Post by: Elkhound on September 11, 2014, 07:33:49 am
Exactly.  KK's novels are so plot-heavy that you'd have to leave too much out of a movie, unless you did a LOTR-style trilogy, and we can only take so many of those.
Title: Re: Does it have to be a theatrical release?
Post by: Texanu on September 11, 2014, 01:29:15 pm
Well, as it once was said, "the best film is a good book and possibilities of our imagination". Looking threw films, based on different fantasy books, there are always a lot of inaccuracies and inconsistencies. And frustration after watching.
I can not compare with "Game of thrones" (inttsiativo it's reading was intercepted by SW  ;D ), but, for example, about the series based on Goodkind books - this infinity of the story kills, depriving desire to watch more. KK's books all are quite sharp and actively developing stories that, in my opinion, is not quite right for the series. And here is some arbitrariness against book's facts is not desirable. Ideas about the Deryni books are lovely and wonderful. All characters, the world, the story. If you sure, that you will see it is this on the screen (after all, feature film, perhaps), then yes, of course. If not - personally, I prefer to trust my imagination.  ::)

P. S. I believe, that my English is easy to understand.))
Title: Re: Does it have to be a theatrical release?
Post by: drakensis on October 05, 2014, 02:41:30 am
The main issue with adapting the Deryni books for release like this is the probably the span of years they cover. A single novel may cover a relatively short span - a couple of days for Deryni Rising - but the longer plot arcs play out over generations. Actors would have to portray characters aging and the cast would cycle through, making it hard for newcomers - and a TV series or movie would need to attract newcomers - to identify with and build loyalties to the characters. At a minimum it'd be necessary to focus in on either the Kelson or Camber eras - possibly the Morgan trilogy, although those books cover the most chronological time of any of the series.

The Camber era really breaks into three arcs: Camber of Culdi & Saint Camber; Camber the Heretic & The Harrowing of Gwynedd; King Javan's Year & the Bastard Prince - although the span of years between the last two books might be best judiciously reduced. With some fleshing out that might yield a three season TV series if going with relatively short seasons in the UK style, something like Downton Abbey. Ten episode seasons like Game of Thrones might be possible, although I suspect it'd need some creativity.

The Kelson era, since it's more compact in time covered might work better. Deryni Rising, possibly using the Morgan trilogy (and short stories) for flashbacks doesn't have to be directly tied to Wencit planning an invasion so that can stand as an arc in and of itself. To work with actors aging, move Deryni Rising and Deryni Checkmate back a year - they form a second season taking place roughly a year after they do in the books, first half of 1122. Making Kelson 15 not 14 doesn't change much and gives room for fleshing out a slower build up of conflict between King and Church. It also shortens the jump in time to the third arc, The Bishop's Heir and The King's Justice which can take place about the canonical date - late 1123 and 1124. This then gives a gap of almost a year before The Quest for Saint Camber. While this could then flow directly into King Kelson's Bride, TQfSC is one of the longest of the novels and possibly the quest could be fleshed out with Kelson and Dhugal's pilgrimage extended with flashbacks to events from Camber of Culdi & Saint Camber to display what they find. King Kelson's Bride could possibly carry a fifth season if some of the other events such as the Llannedd-Howicce politics and Jehana's journey to acceptance of her heritage are developed a bit further.

That went on a bit further than I expected...

The Kelson era seems to have more potential for development. Just as a thought-exercise, let's see how that could go for an arc built off Deryni Rising.


Episode 1.01
Merges the start of 'Deryni Rising' with the short stories 'Knighting of Derry' and 'Trial'. Derry, a young knight, visits Corwyn and has a chance encounter with Alaric Morgan while buying horses. Near Rhemuth, King Brion is hunting and dies, victim of a sorcerous attack set up by Ian Eastmarch for Charissa. Now aware of Morgan's identity, Derry witnesses the trial of Ferris. In Rhemuth, young Kelson asks Duncan McLain to get Morgan to Rhemuth immediately - he's not specifically aware that he's under threat from Charissa but assumes there must have been treason and possibly sorcery involved. Duncan communicates this to Morgan who informs his court. Derry, who's impressed by Morgan, offers to ride with his company to Rhemuth, telling him he may need all the support he can get.

Episode 1.02
Morgan's party is ambushed on the road. Only he and Derry escape, reaching Rhemuth wounded and tired. Morgan greets the major courtiers - Prince Nigel, Ewan of Claibourne, Jared of Cassan, Ian of Eastmarch, Bran of Marley, Kevin of Kierney. They're surprised he's arrived in time and there's evident suspicion: he's a sorcerer, perhaps has spies at court and possibly even colluded in Brion's death. Morgan is warned by Nigel there's a plot against him in the Regency Council to accuse him of treason and heresy. Morgan goes to Kelson and introduces him to Derry. (Minor appearance by Dhugal as a companion to Kelson). The stenrect is spotted and killed. Jehanna and Nigel argue about Morgan, interrupted by a hysterical lady-in-waiting claiming Morgan tried to kill Kelson.

Episode 1.03
The Regency Council is assembled and accusations are brought against Morgan: heresy (use of sorcery) and treason (conspiracy against Brion, drawing his sword in the gardens against Kelson). The stenrect's remains are brought as evidence but aren't convincing. Archbishop Loris emerges alongside Jehana as Morgan's main enemy on the Council. Kelson tries to buy time and spins off mention of sorcery used by and against the Marluk to require testimony on this from Nigel, Ian, Morgan and even Jehana reporting what Brion told her. Loris argues Morgan's part was clear heresy and leading Brion into the same. The vote is called and Kelson insists Morgan has a right to vote, as he's not stripped of his seat unless he's convicted. Jehana casts her vote to break the tie and Kelson hears the cathedral bells.

Episode 1.04
Open with a recap of the vote. Kelson reminds the council that he's of age today and the hour of his birth has passed. He appoints Derry to the council, deadlocking them, and casts his own vote to break the deadlock in Morgan's favour. Kelson and Morgan meet with Duncan to explore how to awaken his Haldane potential. In the palace library, Morgan encounters Charissa who confirms she'll challenge Kelson the next day and adds that Morgan is considered a treacherous half-breed by the Deryni. They learn they need the Eye of Rom, which was buried with Brion. That night Derry takes charge of the guards around Kelson's chambers while the three secretly go to the Cathedral crypt, freeing Brion's soul from the binding and carrying out the ritual there and then. Morgan and Duncan take an unconcious Kelson back to his chambers but find a bloodbath and assassins waiting.

Episode 1.05
After defeating the assassins - his own vassals - Morgan manages to heal Derry, much to his own surprise. He has an argument with Ian and he and Duncan take turns watching over Kelson until dawn. Ian goes to the crypt and murders the guard, leaving evidence pointing at Duncan and Morgan. He returns to the palace and learns Morgan has been named Kings Champion. Ian tampers with the chain of office intended for Morgan. Jehana storms into Kelson's rooms, denouncing Duncan and Morgan. She's appalled to recognise Kelson wears the Eye of Rom and is therefore party to the crypt visit but Morgan tells Jehana she herself is Deryni, a relative of the infamous Lewys ap Norfal. Rather than have this publicised she reluctantly agrees to remain silent and participate in the coronation. The procession leaves the palace for the cathedral.

Episode 1.06
Kelson has a very quiet argument with Loris and Archbishop Corrigan regarding the dead crypt guard. Corrigan agrees to defer accusing Morgan until the next day and Loris grudgingly agrees rather than see Corrigan crown the King in his place. Watching from the belltower, Derry reports Charissa is entering the gates of the city. Morgan comments the mortal guards must be dead or ensorcelled, Kelson confides he doesn't feel any of the power he should, did the rite fail.  Charissa challenges Kelson, who declares Morgan is his champion. Charissa names Ian as her champion, reminding them that the Earls of Eastmarch are descended of the Deryni princes of Kheldour. Morgan defeats Ian but is seriously wounded when distracted by the spell on his chain. Charissa renews her challenge with both Champions out of the way. Kelson accepts, discovers how to complete the ritual and defeats Charissa.
Title: Re: Does it have to be a theatrical release?
Post by: BalanceTheEnergies on August 25, 2015, 03:52:23 am
I've said this elsewhere on the site, but it bears repeating here. I have nothing against television generally, but I have a slight preference for theatrical film because (at least in theatres) the material is viewed in a darkened room with minimal distractions. I'm inclined to think it's conducive to getting us inside the characters' heads (which is where much takes place). I know home video has to be an option (I usually resort to the public library for DVDs myself), but I'd like to make that kind of immersive experience possible for as many people as possible. Call it an aesthetic choice.

Screen size is also a plus, particularly for shots with lots of people involved (Kelson's coronation comes to mind). If I were making the films, I'd like to have it that so viewers could see and recognize the "background" people in certain scenes. (By the way, that's also one reason for the all-star casting I've proposed: KK has a number of characters that start out as background who become important later, like Arilan, Loris, Conall, Henry Istelyn, and so on. Caulay isn't even mentioned by name in DR, but he is stated as having been present at the coronation later, so he counts too.)