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Author Topic: Visionaries--Part Two--Chapter Eleven  (Read 6809 times)

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Offline Alkari

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Re: Visionaries--Part Two--Chapter Eleven
« Reply #15 on: January 21, 2012, 01:09:55 am »
Quote
I'm not sure Jemmy would aim quite as high as Amelia.  True, she is "just" a Baroness, but as the daughter of a Prince, granddaughter to another, and cousin to a King, she might be a wee bit high for a former kitchen boy to aspire to.  Then again, she's of common stock as well as Haldane, and she's a baseborn child to boot (though I can't imagine any suitor turning his nose up at a Haldane wife, no matter what side of the blanket she was born on! Grin )....  It's really hard to say, but I suspect, having owed Haldanes so much already for his education and training, he'd be really hesitant to risk ticking them off by pursuing one of their bloodline to marry as well.
On the other hand, while Jemmy may not actively 'pursue" her, there's always the possibility that she could decide he was rather nice, and the two of them fall in love.   Jemmy would certainly be very careful not to overstep the bounds of propriety, but he's around the court and there's plenty of opportunity to meet Amelia properly and develop a friendship.   With Nigel's daughter Eirian married off (we assume to Liam in Torenth, if Codex2 is correct and nothing happens before she comes of age), and presumably Nigel also making sure of a good marriage for his second daugter (Gloriana, born March 1129), there would be no reason why Nigel and Meraude, and indeed Kelson, could not allow a love-match for Amelia.  Especially if the young knight in question is loyally serving his King and is in good standing at court.

Don't forget that Lord Kenneth Morgan was merely a landed knight - and HE ended up marrying the heiress to Corwyn!!   AND because of that, subsequently becoming Earl of Lendour for life, de jure uxoris ("in right of his wife").

 
« Last Edit: January 21, 2012, 01:14:48 am by Alkari »

Offline Evie

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Re: Visionaries--Part Two--Chapter Eleven
« Reply #16 on: January 21, 2012, 01:22:32 am »
Don't forget that Lord Kenneth Morgan was merely a landed knight - and HE ended up marrying the heiress to Corwyn!!   AND because of that, subsequently becoming Earl of Lendour for life, de jure uxoris ("in right of his wife").

That's certainly true, though that's because Donal chose to reward an extremely loyal vassal by giving him not just a woman he suspected Kenneth fancied, but one who was heiress to lands that Donal was certain Kenneth would manage very well.  If the King hadn't been fully behind the match and, in fact, engineering it, I doubt Kenneth would have dared to do much more than give the lovely Ducal heiress a wistful glance or twelve.  Just consider young Jovett's trepidation over having to approach a newly-minted Earl Kenneth for permission to wed his daughter once they were no longer on an equal footing.  If Sir Jovett, a knight with a great relationship with Kenneth already, was very nervous about asking to marry his daughter once Kenneth became Earl of Lendour, imagine how nerve-wracking it would have been for Sir Kenneth to approach Donal with "You know that Ducal heiress in your wardship whose future husband will have military control over a huge chunk of your Kingdom?  Mind if I marry her and sire the next Duke of Corwyn?" unless he was 100% certain the King's view on the match was likely to be favorable!   ;D
"In necessariis unitas, in non-necessariis libertas, in utrisque caritas."

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Offline Alkari

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Re: Visionaries--Part Two--Chapter Eleven
« Reply #17 on: January 21, 2012, 02:41:04 am »
Well, the sweet young Lady Alyce DID manage to spend a lot of time reading to Kenneth and nursing him during his recovery  ;)   

True, the Alyce/Kenneth match was arranged by Donal, but Donal had certainly noticed their mutual regard.   So if Nigel and Kelson happen to notice that a certain young knight seems to be very well-regarded by young Amelia, and that young knight appears to be quietly smitten with her and is an honourable young man in good standing at court anyway ....  :D

Better all round to agree/arrange that sort of marriage than have poor Amelia sought after purely by the brown-nose brigade and people scheming for political influence at court.  She IS base-born, even if now acknowledged and adopted by Nigel, so there would be nothing untoward in such a match. 


Offline bronwynevaine

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Re: Visionaries--Part Two--Chapter Eleven
« Reply #18 on: January 21, 2012, 06:12:30 am »
At least Brendan knows what sort of woman Aedwige is now and will keep clear of her.

Brendan could easily be taken in. I don't think he has experience dealing with scheming women. He would assume the best in Aedwige until it was too late. Evie better not let him be duped! A certain bishop and rector would be very disappointed...

Oh, I can't wait for her comeuppance!

Me either. There may not be much left for trial after Richenda and Araxie have their say. I suspect the women are rather protective of Brendan and of Sivney. I hope Sivney gets his due, too.
« Last Edit: January 21, 2012, 06:42:26 am by bronwynevaine »
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Offline bronwynevaine

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Re: Visionaries--Part Two--Chapter Eleven
« Reply #19 on: January 21, 2012, 06:41:34 am »
Tonnes of examples of the poor knight marrying the rich merchant's daughter abound in literature.  Pride and Prejudice shows such a marriage where mutual respect declined before mutual understanding could begin to support it.

Are you referring to the Bennets? He married a pretty girl not realizing she was brainless. I believe Lady Catherine was a merchant's daughter before her marriage to Sir Lewis de Bourgh. He's not in the book but she probably acted as though she outranked him!

And welcome to the forum!
I don't just march to the beat of a different drummer...I dance to a beat no one else can hear :)

Offline Elkhound

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Re: Visionaries--Part Two--Chapter Eleven
« Reply #20 on: January 21, 2012, 11:35:29 am »
Anent Pride & Prejudice, I've toyed with the idea of a re-telling set in Gwynnedd, but I've discovered that I'm just not good enough a writer to pull it off.  If any of the wonderful writers here would like to try their hand, run with it.

Offline Alkari

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Re: Visionaries--Part Two--Chapter Eleven
« Reply #21 on: January 21, 2012, 01:06:03 pm »
Quote
Brendan could easily be taken in. I don't think he has experience dealing with scheming women.
Oh, I bet there have already been a number of young women who have quietly cast their eyes (and nets!) in his direction, probably since he was 13 or 14.  Not to mention a large number of mothers all eyeing him off as a potential match for their daughters.   However, I suspect his stepfather has had a few quiet chats to him over the years about court intrigues and the marriage market, as Alaric Morgan would have experienced just the same thing, even more so as a duke.  Brendan may be sympathetic and polite to a young widow, but on what we have seen so far, I get the impression he's thinking with his brain and not another portion of his anatomy, and is not going to be as 'sympathetic' as Aedwige would like :D   

Sivney's brain, on the other hand ...  ;)

« Last Edit: January 21, 2012, 02:01:56 pm by Alkari »

Offline Elkhound

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Re: Visionaries--Part Two--Chapter Eleven
« Reply #22 on: January 21, 2012, 02:04:55 pm »
Siveny's what???

Offline Alkari

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Re: Visionaries--Part Two--Chapter Eleven
« Reply #23 on: January 21, 2012, 02:19:23 pm »
You're right, Elkhound.  :D

Offline derynifanatic64

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Re: Visionaries--Part Two--Chapter Eleven
« Reply #24 on: January 21, 2012, 03:00:50 pm »
Sivney is acting like a younger version of Sextus.  Chasing anything in a skirt.
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Offline Elkhound

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Re: Visionaries--Part Two--Chapter Eleven
« Reply #25 on: January 21, 2012, 05:05:46 pm »
Sivney is acting like a younger version of Sextus.  Chasing anything in a skirt.

A certain amount of that is perfectly normal and healthy for a young man.  But there are limits.

Offline Shiral

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Re: Visionaries--Part Two--Chapter Eleven
« Reply #26 on: January 21, 2012, 06:53:37 pm »
Quote
Brendan could easily be taken in. I don't think he has experience dealing with scheming women.
Oh, I bet there have already been a number of young women who have quietly cast their eyes (and nets!) in his direction, probably since he was 13 or 14.  Not to mention a large number of mothers all eyeing him off as a potential match for their daughters.   However, I suspect his stepfather has had a few quiet chats to him over the years about court intrigues and the marriage market, as Alaric Morgan would have experienced just the same thing, even more so as a duke.  Brendan may be sympathetic and polite to a young widow, but on what we have seen so far, I get the impression he's thinking with his brain and not another portion of his anatomy, and is not going to be as 'sympathetic' as Aedwige would like :D    

Sivney's brain, on the other hand ...  ;)



Brendan would be quite a good catch for the sister or daughter of a middle-ranking noble at court. But I'm sure Alaric, Richenda AND the King would have given him a lot of advice to that effect, and that he will have to weigh more variables concerning his future wife than just liking her.   Marrying Brendan would also mean becoming the  step-daughter in law of Duke Alaric Morgan. Not that he'd deliberately try to frighten off a girl, but she'd better consider that fact and whether she can handle it before  making goo-goo eyes at Brendan.  8)
Melissa
« Last Edit: January 21, 2012, 06:58:43 pm by Shiral »
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Offline Elkhound

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Re: Visionaries--Part Two--Chapter Eleven
« Reply #27 on: January 21, 2012, 09:45:06 pm »
Marrying Brendan would also mean becoming the  step-daughter in law of Duke Alaric Morgan. Not that he'd deliberately try to frighten off a girl, but she'd better consider that fact and whether she can handle it before  making goo-goo eyes at Brendan.  8)
Melissa

Actually, being Richenda's daughter-in-law could be a frightening prospect if the girl knew she didn't like her.

Offline Arilan s Fan

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Re: Visionaries--Part Two--Chapter Eleven
« Reply #28 on: January 22, 2012, 12:12:37 am »
Sivney is acting like a younger version of Sextus.  Chasing anything in a skirt.
Sextus would chase anything in a skirt but would never try to catch her.  That is why his second name in Ludicrus.

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Re: Visionaries--Part Two--Chapter Eleven
« Reply #29 on: January 22, 2012, 01:35:06 am »
Tonnes of examples of the poor knight marrying the rich merchant's daughter abound in literature.  Pride and Prejudice shows such a marriage where mutual respect declined before mutual understanding could begin to support it.

Are you referring to the Bennets? He married a pretty girl not realizing she was brainless. I believe Lady Catherine was a merchant's daughter before her marriage to Sir Lewis de Bourgh. He's not in the book but she probably acted as though she outranked him!

And welcome to the forum!
Thank you!

I wouldn't dare try to transpose that story.  Would Deryni heritage be one of the flaws of the "Bennets" or perhaps the socially unacceptable aspect of the Gardiners?  Apart from that primary issue, the transition would not be all that hard.  Gentlemen would use the title Esquire after their name, indicating that their gentle birth would not disgrace a knighthood.  The story has been grafted to much more distant cultures  - Bride and Prejudice being the sub continental Indian version!

I thought Lady Catherine de Bourgh was a Right Honourable(indicating that she was entitled to be called Lady without virtue of being married to Sir Lewis de Bourgh), being the sister of Lady Anne Darcy nee Fitzwilliam.  Lady Anne having married the older Mr. Darcy would not have required the Right Honourable to distinguish the source of her nobility as her husband was an untitled gentleman.

When Miss Elizabeh Bennet states that Darcy and she are equal in status by the virtue of Mr. Bennet being a gentleman, Lady Catherine protests that his mother was a Lady (a word of extremely elastic virtue these days, unfortunately) but her mother was of common birth.

Mr. Bennet entirely understands his wife, just as Mrs. Bennet entirely fails to understand him.  Her lack of understanding (of almost everything) keeps her on a perpetual emotional rollercoaster.  His understanding leads to a distance and attitude of resignation that enfolds all his family except Lizzy and Jane.

 

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