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Author Topic: Bewitched, Bothered, and Bewildered--Chapter Twelve  (Read 7194 times)

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Offline Evie

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Re: Bewitched, Bothered, and Bewildered--Chapter Twelve
« Reply #15 on: July 13, 2011, 09:56:56 am »
Briefly Googling the keywords "medieval tossing games" gave me this tidbit, referenced on at least two different websites so far:

"In medieval Britain there was an egg throwing festival held in the churches at Easter. The priest would give out one hard-boiled egg which was tossed around the nave of the church and the choirboy who was holding the egg when the clock struck twelve would get to keep it."  (Cited from http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Egg_tossing)

I can just imagine Duncan doing this!   :D

Also, now that I'm thinking a bit more broadly than "ball and stick" throwing and aiming games, they had the game of bowls, which would be essentially the same thing as bocce today (that game where you throw or roll larger balls towards a smaller ball that's the target, and you're allowed to knock someone else's ball out of the way to get yours closer to the goal), and there was ring tossing (tossing rings at a stake in the ground) and a game called queeks, in which children were supposed to predict beforehand if their pebbles would end up in a light square or dark square before tossing them at a piece of cloth that was woven in a checkered pattern.  (Or one could use a chessboard for the purpose, though Mom and Dad would probably get a bit upset at their kids flinging rocks at the family game board!)  Tennis had early origins, though I don't know if they go back to the Middle Ages, but it was already around by Shakespeare's day.  I'm sure there'd also be stone throwing contests, and possibly competitions at aiming at a target with a sling.  And children probably knew how to skip flat stones over water just as I used to do (although I wasn't born quite as long ago as the Middle Ages!  ;D )
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Offline Elkhound

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Re: Bewitched, Bothered, and Bewildered--Chapter Twelve
« Reply #16 on: July 13, 2011, 10:30:32 am »
I have no clue what book that would be, but it sounds like one I'd like to read.   :D

I tracked it down.  It was Edward Eager's "Knights Castle":

http://www.amazon.com/Knights-Castle-Edward-Eager/dp/015202073X/ref=cm_cr_pr_product_top


Offline Elkhound

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Re: Bewitched, Bothered, and Bewildered--Chapter Twelve
« Reply #17 on: July 14, 2011, 09:57:40 am »
Also, now that I'm thinking a bit more broadly than "ball and stick" throwing and aiming games, they had the game of bowls, which would be essentially the same thing as bocce today (that game where you throw or roll larger balls towards a smaller ball that's the target, and you're allowed to knock someone else's ball out of the way to get yours closer to the goal), and there was ring tossing (tossing rings at a stake in the ground) and a game called queeks, in which children were supposed to predict beforehand if their pebbles would end up in a light square or dark square before tossing them at a piece of cloth that was woven in a checkered pattern.  (Or one could use a chessboard for the purpose, though Mom and Dad would probably get a bit upset at their kids flinging rocks at the family game board!)  Tennis had early origins, though I don't know if they go back to the Middle Ages, but it was already around by Shakespeare's day.  I'm sure there'd also be stone throwing contests, and possibly competitions at aiming at a target with a sling.  And children probably knew how to skip flat stones over water just as I used to do (although I wasn't born quite as long ago as the Middle Ages!  ;D )


When was croquet invented?  Most people think of croquet as a quiet, genteel sort of game, but it is really quite viciously competitive.

Offline Evie

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Re: Bewitched, Bothered, and Bewildered--Chapter Twelve
« Reply #18 on: July 14, 2011, 10:34:55 am »
Apparently, croquet dates back to the mid-1800s, but may have descended from pall mall, which can be documented back to the early 1600s.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Croquet

Bowls dates back to a few centuries earlier.  I have a bocce set that I sometimes bring to SCA events:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bowls

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Offline Elkhound

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Re: Bewitched, Bothered, and Bewildered--Chapter Twelve
« Reply #19 on: July 14, 2011, 02:00:06 pm »
I know that polo came from Central Asia/Iran/Northern India and was not introduced to Europe in our world until the British brought it back from the Empire.  But in our alternative universe?

Offline Evie

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Re: Bewitched, Bothered, and Bewildered--Chapter Twelve
« Reply #20 on: July 14, 2011, 02:51:46 pm »
It's hard to say what might happen in an alternate universe (that is, of course I've got a fair bit of say in what goes into my own, but none at all over what goes into KK's!  :D) , but my gut says that horses were such a vital part of both chivalric warfare and agriculture, I can't imagine them being used for sporting purposes (which would increase the risk of injury to these valuable resources) unless that "sport" served some other useful purpose such as putting food on the table and helping build the necessary weapons skills needed for battle (i.e., an activity like hunting which, although recreational, was also far more than that in their culture).  Since I can't think of any particular useful purpose that the skill set needed for polo would directly relate to in some other vitally necessary non-gaming activity, my guess would be that any game such as polo wouldn't come into existence in Kelson's world until such time when horse ownership and riding became more of a purely recreational activity rather than one more closely connected to the needs of human survival.
« Last Edit: July 14, 2011, 03:19:45 pm by Evie »
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Offline Elkhound

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Re: Bewitched, Bothered, and Bewildered--Chapter Twelve
« Reply #21 on: July 14, 2011, 03:36:45 pm »
Since I can't think of any particular useful purpose that the skill set needed for polo would directly relate to in some other vitally necessary non-gaming activity, my guess would be that any game such as polo wouldn't come into existence in Kelson's world until such time when horse ownership and riding became more of a purely recreational activity rather than one more closely connected to the needs of human survival.

Wasn't polo originally invented as a training exercise for light cavalry skirmishers?

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Re: Bewitched, Bothered, and Bewildered--Chapter Twelve
« Reply #22 on: July 14, 2011, 03:40:30 pm »
* Evie goes off to look up the game's origins

Hm.  It appears it was.  OK, so it's much more applicable to warfare than I thought.   :D

In which case, I suspect it all depends on whether any of the warriors in the Eleven Kingdoms happened to think it up as a possible training exercise for cavalry, or if they imported it from one of the more eastern kingdoms. 
* Evie imagines Alaric playing polo....   ;D
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Offline Alkari

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Re: Bewitched, Bothered, and Bewildered--Chapter Twelve
« Reply #23 on: July 14, 2011, 04:13:28 pm »
Wasn't polo originally invented as a training exercise for light cavalry skirmishers?

Yes, but it originated in Persia, and did not spread to the west for hundreds of years.  It was played by women as well as men.   Certainly not played in France/England in medieval times, though some of the knights returning from the Crusades may have seen it played in the middle east. 

The 'games' on horseback would have been those associated with military training, designed to develop skills with sword, lance and even bow and arrow, and also the abilities of horse and rider.  (Don't forget you also have to train the horse for combat!)  Ever seen the sport of tent-pegging?  Quite spectacular, because the teams have to be at full gallop and hold formation, doing one series of runs with lance, and then with a sword.  It wouldn't have been known by that name of course, but that type of equivalent equestrian skills would have been popular as training and also at tournaments.    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tent_pegging.


Offline Evie

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Re: Bewitched, Bothered, and Bewildered--Chapter Twelve
« Reply #24 on: July 14, 2011, 04:47:26 pm »
During my very brief foray into SCA equestrian arts, I did tilting at rings, tilting at the quintain, and "Saracen heads" (i.e., riding slalom around a row of poles with a target set atop each that we had to knock off with our "swords" as we rode by).  Since I only competed in the beginner rider class, we took the targets at a walk, but my DH rode with intermediates or higher (I can't remember now if he ever competed at the advanced level), so they'd do their ride-bys at higher speeds.  I also recall we had a form of tent pegging that we called "pig sticking," which I think involved stabbing a styrofoam target on the ground with a spear as we rode by, but I don't recall actually participating in that one myself.  My husband built a portable quintain as a gift for a former Baroness for her Baronial Investiture once, since she owned horses and was quite involved in SCA equestrian activities.
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Offline Elkhound

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Re: Bewitched, Bothered, and Bewildered--Chapter Twelve
« Reply #25 on: July 14, 2011, 09:10:20 pm »
Wasn't polo originally invented as a training exercise for light cavalry skirmishers?

Yes, but it originated in Persia, and did not spread to the west for hundreds of years.  It was played by women as well as men.   Certainly not played in France/England in medieval times, though some of the knights returning from the Crusades may have seen it played in the middle east. 

Yes, I know that.  I said as much in my post.  Did you actually read it?  I know how polo came to the West in our world.  But we know that the Deryniverse, although similar to our world, is not exactly the same. 

Offline Evie

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Re: Bewitched, Bothered, and Bewildered--Chapter Twelve
« Reply #26 on: July 14, 2011, 09:25:00 pm »
Personally, I just want to see Alaric all sweaty and wearing a polo shirt ;)

Oh wait, that's even more alternate an AU than my own!   ;D

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Offline derynifanatic64

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Re: Bewitched, Bothered, and Bewildered--Chapter Twelve
« Reply #27 on: July 15, 2011, 03:12:04 am »
Personally, I just want to see Alaric all sweaty and wearing a polo shirt ;)


I bet you would want to see Duncan all sweaty and wearing a polo shirt!
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Offline Evie

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Re: Bewitched, Bothered, and Bewildered--Chapter Twelve
« Reply #28 on: July 15, 2011, 07:48:49 am »
Hm, yes, I could certainly learn to endure that....   ;)
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Offline Elkhound

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Re: Bewitched, Bothered, and Bewildered--Chapter Twelve
« Reply #29 on: July 15, 2011, 09:35:53 am »
Personally, I just want to see Alaric all sweaty and wearing a polo shirt ;)


Or, perhaps, all sweaty and NOT wearing a polo shirt?

 

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