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Author Topic: Kelson-era Arilans  (Read 5598 times)

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Offline Laurna

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Re: Kelson-era Arilans
« Reply #15 on: December 02, 2016, 11:37:46 pm »
Love renewing old discussions I only brushed through years ago.
I think we can say with some confidence that the Arilan clan has gained a bit of infamy popularity among us Rhemuth Castle residence. I did not realize that Sextus is truly listed in the Codex. That makes his adventures all the more enjoyable. If someone is new here and is reading this with curiosity, then I suggested to them to pick up Evie's stories and many happy hours of reading to you. Perhaps this thread was where it all started.

As to the second subject, the "turning off" talent. Remember, Rhys discovered this quite by accident. There was no president in any of the established teachings of such an ability. If it was discovered by Orin, it would be in an untranslated scroll. Rhys taught two or three healers to do it, including his son, Tieg. Only members of the founding CC knew about it. I am sure they used it until 948 at which time Gwynedd losses Joram and Tieg. We do not know if Jerusha could use that talent. If the talent was ever written about in scroll form, it would have been very well protected deep in the CC archives or else it was only passed down by mind sharing. After 1025, all known healers are lost in the war. The knowledge would have become unusable and easily lost in the next generations. Sir Jamyl Arilan may have had the knowledge, as would have Michon De Courcy, but I have doubts that they speculated on it prior to Denis's ordination. That or it was a mere  Myth to them, and not a reasonable consideration. Unless they lied to Denis on that day, and used it without his knowledge, which I doubt.

Perhaps an Anviller did know of it and stepped in secretly. Or perhaps the ghost of Saint Camber tapped into an unknown Deryni Healer's ability (Hmm could that be young Morgan or even Duncan) without him or her remembering... Or.... we may never know. 
« Last Edit: December 22, 2016, 09:19:29 pm by Laurna »

Offline revanne

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Re: Kelson-era Arilans
« Reply #16 on: December 03, 2016, 02:18:49 am »
I also love renewing old debates.

I have wondered if the ability to block was deliberately "lost" after the bloody end to Revan's baptiser cult with the tragedy of Javan's death and all that surrounded it. I think that Joram's compromises with his conscience all through the Camber era books may have returned to haunt him and it would be consistent with  his character as portrayed to regard the horrors of what happened as Judgement. (One day hopefully I can actually find time to finish Joram's story which is so clear in my head.)
"All the world’s a stage,
And all the men and women merely players;
They have their exits and their entrances;
And one man in his time plays many parts."
As You Like It.

Offline Jerusha

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Re: Kelson-era Arilans
« Reply #17 on: December 03, 2016, 05:26:55 pm »
I do hope you find time to finish that story, revanne.  I have always liked Joram.

And I like Denis Arilan.  IIRC, in tQfSC, it states that Morgan feared (or felt endangered by) Denis after the confrontation with Duncan after the Ash Wednesday service.  Highly unusual (and I was a bit surprised the first time I read it).
From ghoulies and ghosties and long-leggity beasties and things that go bump in the night...good Lord deliver us!

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Offline btuey

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Re: Kelson-era Arilans
« Reply #18 on: December 22, 2016, 02:58:12 pm »
Love renewing old discussions I only brushed through years ago.
I think we can say with some confidence that the Arilan clan has gained a bit of infamy popularity among us Rhemuth Castle residence. I did not realize that Sextus is truly listed in the Codex. That makes his adventures all the more enjoyable. If someone is new here and is reading this with curiosity, then I suggested to them to pick up Evie's stories and many happy hours of reading to you. Perhaps this thread was where it all started.

As to the second subject, the "turning off" talent. Remember, Rhys discovered this quite by accident. There was no president in any of the established teachings of such an ability. If it was discovered by Orien, it would be in an untranslated scroll. Rhys taught two or three healers to do it, including his son, Tieg. Only members of the founding CC knew about it. I am sure they used it until 948 at which time Gwynedd losses Joram and Teig. We do not know if Jerusha could use that talent. If the talent was ever written about in scroll form, it would have been very well protected deep in the CC archives or else it was only passed down by mind sharing. After 1025, all known healers are lost in the war. The knowledge would have become unusable and easily lost in the next generations. Sir Jamyl Arilan may have had the knowledge, as would have Michon De Coursy, but I have doubts that they speculated on it prior to Denis's ordination. That or it was a mere  Myth to them, and not a reasonable consideration. Unless they lied to Denis on that day, and used it without his knowledge, which I doubt.

Perhaps an Anviller did know of it and stepped in secretly. Or perhaps the ghost of Saint Camber tapped into an unknown Deryni Healer's ability (Hmm could that be young Morgan or even Duncan) without him or her remembering... Or.... we may never know.

Ok I have filtered through here several times of the last couple of years and finally decided to join in the discussion. I have been a fan of the series since I started reading them in the mid-late 80's. In response to your post though, IIRC Camber (as Alister) showed Evaine a collection of protcols penned by Orin which he discovered under Grecotha (or maybe the meeting place of the CC) during the Heirs trilogy and mentioned specifically the process of the turning off power. Presumably if the protocols they collected survived then current healers should be able to exercise it providing they have the ability to do so as that ability was uncommon amongst healers in Rhys' day. Sorry for the run on sentences.... :)

Offline DesertRose

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Re: Kelson-era Arilans
« Reply #19 on: December 22, 2016, 03:09:14 pm »
Love renewing old discussions I only brushed through years ago.
I think we can say with some confidence that the Arilan clan has gained a bit of infamy popularity among us Rhemuth Castle residence. I did not realize that Sextus is truly listed in the Codex. That makes his adventures all the more enjoyable. If someone is new here and is reading this with curiosity, then I suggested to them to pick up Evie's stories and many happy hours of reading to you. Perhaps this thread was where it all started.

As to the second subject, the "turning off" talent. Remember, Rhys discovered this quite by accident. There was no president in any of the established teachings of such an ability. If it was discovered by Orien, it would be in an untranslated scroll. Rhys taught two or three healers to do it, including his son, Tieg. Only members of the founding CC knew about it. I am sure they used it until 948 at which time Gwynedd losses Joram and Teig. We do not know if Jerusha could use that talent. If the talent was ever written about in scroll form, it would have been very well protected deep in the CC archives or else it was only passed down by mind sharing. After 1025, all known healers are lost in the war. The knowledge would have become unusable and easily lost in the next generations. Sir Jamyl Arilan may have had the knowledge, as would have Michon De Coursy, but I have doubts that they speculated on it prior to Denis's ordination. That or it was a mere  Myth to them, and not a reasonable consideration. Unless they lied to Denis on that day, and used it without his knowledge, which I doubt.

Perhaps an Anviller did know of it and stepped in secretly. Or perhaps the ghost of Saint Camber tapped into an unknown Deryni Healer's ability (Hmm could that be young Morgan or even Duncan) without him or her remembering... Or.... we may never know.

Ok I have filtered through here several times of the last couple of years and finally decided to join in the discussion. I have been a fan of the series since I started reading them in the mid-late 80's. In response to your post though, IIRC Camber (as Alister) showed Evaine a collection of protcols penned by Orin which he discovered under Grecotha (or maybe the meeting place of the CC) during the Heirs trilogy and mentioned specifically the process of the turning off power. Presumably if the protocols they collected survived then current healers should be able to exercise it providing they have the ability to do so as that ability was uncommon amongst healers in Rhys' day. Sorry for the run on sentences.... :)

The part I bolded is probably the problem.  No one in Kelson's day (at least that we've seen, with maaaaaaayyybeee the possible exception of Azim and/or some of his associates with the Knights of the Anvil) have any idea where the Protocols of Orin manuscripts might be.

But it's a good possibility that those scrolls are somewhere...

(And don't worry about run-on sentences.  We're not grading posts towards your GPA.  :D )

ETA:  And welcome!  :)
"If having a soul means being able to feel love, loyalty, and gratitude, then animals are better off than a lot of humans."

James Herriot (James Alfred "Alfie" Wight), when a human client asked him if animals have souls.  (I don't remember in which book the story originally appeared.)

Offline Laurna

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Re: Kelson-era Arilans
« Reply #20 on: December 22, 2016, 09:12:37 pm »

 In response to your post though, IIRC Camber (as Alister) showed Evaine a collection of protcols penned by Orin which he discovered under Grecotha (or maybe the meeting place of the CC) during the Heirs trilogy and mentioned specifically the process of the turning off power. Presumably if the protocols they collected survived then current healers should be able to exercise it providing they have the ability to do so as that ability was uncommon amongst healers in Rhys' day. Sorry for the run on sentences.... :)

Thank you for speaking up, some details seem to have escaped my notice, when I reread the Camber era books. ;)   I could not remember if the protocols of Orin penned out this ability for healers to turn the Deryni power off or on, or not. If the information is in the scrolls, than I can believe that the Kelson-era Anviliers were aware of it. And I am sure they may have had healers hidden in their midst across the centuries. I would like to think some of these people may have been the descendants of Tieg Thuryn who are not well researched in the Codex, but who may exist in the southern climates of the Eleven Kingdoms.

Offline btuey

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Re: Kelson-era Arilans
« Reply #21 on: January 28, 2017, 10:40:38 pm »
Thanks for the replies. I have been re-reading the Camber and Heirs novels and have noticed a couple of things. First, the Protocols were in the possession of the Camberian Council (Joram, Evaine and Queron Kinevan) at the time. One would think that the volumes they saved would have remained with the council down to Kelson's time period. It would not surprise me if they were suddenly found to be in the possession of the de Courcys or Barret de Laney, as the latter was quite interested in the healing arts.

Second, as has been outlined previously, we know that Alaric, Duncan, Dhugal and Kelson are descendants of Camber through Rhysel Thuryn. From the books we know that Rhysel's siblings Tieg and Jerusha were healers. It is not said in the books whether Rhysel was a healer or not but she was likely a carrier for the ability in order for it to be passed down through the generations to Duncan, Alaric and Dhugal. It is also possible that she passed on her father's quirk of being able to "shut off" Deryni abilities. If that is true, then it stands to reason that Duncan, Alaric and Dhugal may have inherited that ability also. It would be interesting to see if true. I feel that it would make for good material in a post-KKB novel outlining the opening of the first scholae in over 2 centuries.

Laurna: I also feel like there is more information which was retained by the Anvilers than was revealed in the books. It would not surprise me to see Azim present a healer or two to assist in the further training of Duncan, Alaric and Dhugal

Offline drakensis

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Re: Kelson-era Arilans
« Reply #22 on: January 30, 2017, 04:26:06 am »
Rhysel notes, when preparing Michaela to activate Owain's potential, that she isn't a healer.

According to the Healers entry in the Codex, Torenth tried to re-establish a schola for healers in the early 11th century but so many healers died in Torenth's wars against the North and Gwynedd that by 1025 it was non-viable. However, it's indicated that there are still healers further east in Byzantun and that during the 12th century the only healers in Torenth were in royal service.

Offline btuey

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Re: Kelson-era Arilans
« Reply #23 on: February 04, 2017, 12:19:12 pm »
Drakensis: thanks for the reply. You are indeed correct that she is not a healer. However, that does not mean that she isn't a carrier for the gene to be passed to future generations. It would explain the healing abilities in Duncan, Alaric and Dhugal. Their only link to a healer is several generations back through Rhysel and thus to Rhys Thuryn himself. Kelson can also claim distant relationship through Rhysel and it would be interesting to see if any of his offspring showed evidence of the talent.

 

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