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Author Topic: Enjoying the books so far  (Read 2718 times)

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Offline JediMatt1000

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Enjoying the books so far
« on: August 13, 2018, 07:27:03 pm »
I'm on book 2 and Ariella has just been defeated by Cullen. Camber is launching his plot to play as Cullen while "Camber" has to be the one that "died".

It's a very complicated arc to say the least; Cinhil is almost bitter at what Camber did to him - stealing him away from the monastery; and instead of focusing on how the Kingdom could be better with him on the throne; he loathes most Deryni in general. I can sympathize with him a little bit - but most people; upon having the luxuries and privileges of having a throne just given to you - would respond/react differently.

His anger has already gotten the better of him. Very thrilling so far - can't wait where it takes me next!

Offline drakensis

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Re: Enjoying the books so far
« Reply #1 on: August 14, 2018, 01:39:03 am »
I think the reasoning behind Cinhil's anger stems from Mark 8:36: "For what shall it profit a man, if he shall gain the whole world, and lose his own soul?"

He had a religious vocation and is forced to set this aside for merely material goals. As a priest he swore serious oaths and becoming a king and a father violates them. From his perspective Camber is dragging him into damnation for the sake of Camber's personal goals - and he's inclined to take anything that goes wrong as God punishing him for going along with it.

He's also not a young man - he's 47 years old upon the Restoration, likely closer to the end of his life even by modern standards much less medieval standards. Death and what he'll face then is something he's likely considered. What do wealth and privilege in this world matter in comparison to God's judgement?

Offline Shiral

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Re: Enjoying the books so far
« Reply #2 on: August 14, 2018, 02:07:36 pm »
Cinhil is one of those characters for whom I feel intermittent sympathy combined with considerable impatience. I think Drakensis captured his religious perspective very well. I do have sympathy for Cinhil's having to leave the life he loved and for which he was well suited. I feel deep impatience with Cinhil for continuing to dwell on and sulk over what he lost rather than try to find the positives about what he gained by taking up his secular life. Lots of men can be priests, but only Cinhil  could be the rightful Haldane King and restore the rightful royal line in Gwynedd; a young wife who loved him (I wish KK had shown us WHY Megan loved him more often,) and their three sons. And the acumen Cinhil showed for ruling. And yes, Camber does not handle everything perfectly. It makes both of them more interesting. I believe Camber was strongly motivated by the urgency of getting Imre, whom he knew to be an unfit and uncaring king, off the throne. Yes it could be called Treason from Imre's point of view. I think Camber cared deeply about the people who would suffer under the rule of an unjust and unfit King. Clearly, the Michaelines felt the same way if they were so ready and willing to stake so much on Cinhil, an unknown quantity at the time. 

As for complexity of story line, you're right. In terms of pure plotting, Saint Camber is one of the best books in all the trilogies, IMO. But I don't want to give away any surprises.

Melissa
« Last Edit: August 15, 2018, 08:06:18 pm by Shiral »
You can have a sound mind in a healthy body--Or you can be a nanonovelist!

Offline revanne

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Re: Enjoying the books so far
« Reply #3 on: August 14, 2018, 02:26:46 pm »
Cinhil's original reluctance is understandable for the reasons Drakensis points out; on the other hand kingship in medieval understanding is a divine calling and Cinhil's hankering after his priesthood often seems to me to be more about self-indulgence than the self-denial demanded by the Gospel. What would it mean for Cinhil to "deny himself and take up his cross." (Mark 8:34)? It could be argued that the self-denial in Cinhil's case is accepting the burden of kingship and the loss of his protected, and in many ways comfortable though austere, life as a monastic priest.

Having said that I think Camber must bear a lot of the responsibility for Cinhil's anger and resentment, which I think he himself comes to acknowledge. Had he been less overbearing and more patient perhaps Cinhil could have adjusted better.
Let God rise up, let his enemies be scattered;
    let those who hate him flee before him.
As smoke is driven away, so drive them away;
    as wax melts before the fire,
    let the wicked perish before God.
(Psalm 68 vv1-2)

Offline whitelaughter

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Re: Enjoying the books so far
« Reply #4 on: August 18, 2018, 04:21:54 am »
Agreed with what has been said, but have to add that a decent confessor would have done him the world of good. From the throwaway lines we get, his confessor made his problems worse, not better - and it was inevitable that a man like Cinhil would lean heavily on his confessor.

Offline JediMatt1000

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Re: Enjoying the books so far
« Reply #5 on: October 13, 2018, 04:17:09 am »
So, in Camber the Heretic was Cinhil's cause of death something related to Tuberculosis? With his coughing fits it kind of sounded like TB.

I'm really not liking the regents. I figured once Cinhil passed; life for Deryni in general would be a lot more difficult - probably about as bad as the Festils. 

I still think Camber is playing the part of Alistair still a bit "too close to the chest", and with each page I turn I fear the poor man might be discovered and with those regents - might find himself in a lot worse shape than if Cinhil discovered him.

Tavis losing his hand and his involvement with young Javan and the discovery of the young prince's shields has me thinking Tavis is onto what happened the night the king died.

Oh what a nailbiter!!!
Matt

Offline DesertRose

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Re: Enjoying the books so far
« Reply #6 on: October 13, 2018, 08:56:52 am »
It is quite possible that the illness that killed Cinhil was tuberculosis, but there are other illnesses that cause severe coughing and hemoptysis.

As to the rest, you'll have to read on.  :D  *River Song voice*  "Spoilers!"
"If having a soul means being able to feel love, loyalty, and gratitude, then animals are better off than a lot of humans."

James Herriot (James Alfred "Alfie" Wight), when a human client asked him if animals have souls.  (I don't remember in which book the story originally appeared.)

Offline JediMatt1000

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Re: Enjoying the books so far
« Reply #7 on: October 19, 2018, 09:10:39 pm »
*sighs* I just got to the part where Rhys dies. Oh man! I actually cried at his character's passing. I understand why Tavis & Javan did what they did - but one has to wonder even if he was at full strength; if his slip could have even been avoided.

And did Tavis learn of Rhys' Deryni blocking abilities from doing the deep psychic probe the night before he died?

The massacre of the Deryni was just horrible - and I feel for poor Evaine losing both her husband then her child.
Matt

Online Bynw

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Re: Enjoying the books so far
« Reply #8 on: October 19, 2018, 09:31:46 pm »
It is a sad wasteful death. And just the beginning. The 1st book of the Heirs of Saint Camber isn't called "The Harrowing of Gwynedd" for nothing.

Offline JediMatt1000

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Re: Enjoying the books so far
« Reply #9 on: November 05, 2018, 04:52:38 pm »
Onto The Harrowing of Gwynedd the test that Queron must do to join The Camberian council; was that something all members had to do or was it just Queron?

 

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