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Offline DesertRose

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Re: Rules Errata
« Reply #15 on: May 23, 2018, 12:58:42 pm »
DAG (Deryni Adventure Game) ranks these powers differently from how they are listed in the book Deryni Magic. There was to be a 2nd version of Deryni Magic for DAG but it hasn't ever surfaced.

So I'm going to go ahead and use Deryni Magic here as a bit of a guide to help us determine what falls where in the context of  the game. That way we all have a better understanding of what the Deryni can do and not do within the game itself.

Telepathic Functions I - Shields, Mind Speech, Energy Augmentation

Telepathic Functions II - Rapport

Telepathic Functions III - Truth-Reading, Memory, Mind Control, Starring Patterns

Clairsentient Functions - Scrying, Dowsing, Object Reading

Telefunctions I - Telekinesis (opening locks, deflecting arrows)

Telefunctions II - Transfer Portals (using, construction, destruction)

Operative Magic I - Handfire, Conjuring Flame, Fatigue Banishing, Attuning an Object, Shiral Crystals, Sympathetic Magic, Pure Conjury, Duel Arcane

Operative Magic II - Shape Changing, Preservation Spells on Bodies (healers only), The Forbidden Spell

Wards and Warding

Ward Cubes I - The basics

Ward Cubes II - Advanced methods

Healer Functions - Healing, Blocking

Dark Magic - Binding Souls, Sword Spells, The Forbidden Spell

Ritual - Casting a Circle, Empowering Humans, Detailed Scrying Techniques, Construction of a Portal


So where do all of the above fit in our Traits?
Power
Healing
Blocking
Shapechange
Artificer
Awaken
Beastspeaker
Ritual Magic
Spell Master
Spell-Trained
Telekinesis

Are there Traits that arent needed and can be folded back into something else?

The whole objective is to have a better understanding of what can be done by whom and so it works out nicely and stiff fits within the universe created by Herself

Okay, that helps a lot.

At the moment, I'm not certain what is meant by the traits of Artificer and Awaken.  Could you please let me know where to find definitions of those traits, Bynw?

I think that the abilities in Magic of Shields, Mind-Speech, Energy Augmentation, Rapport, Truth-Reading, and Memory would all fall under the game trait of Power, because those are all fairly basic Deryni abilities.

The default position of a Deryni's Shields is raised but in a fairly relaxed fashion, IMO, and Shields tend to be present without conscious effort (and sometimes even without knowledge, as Dhugal's when Kelson discovers his Shields early in The Bishop's Heir, or as Darcy's in game).

Likewise the Deryni-specific enhanced Memory abilities seem to be fairly passive; it doesn't often seem like anyone in canon is trying very hard to remember clearly, except in a few specific instances.  One example of someone actually trying to utilize Memory might be Camber using the automatic writing-type operation to tap into his memory of what he saw through Ariella's eyes after the scrying operation, almost immediately afterward, for fear that the memory would fade if he didn't write it all down as soon as possible.

Truth-Reading seems to be a Deryni talent that doesn't require a lot of conscious effort, as demonstrated by Javan (Alroy's twin, not Kelson's son) just knowing that someone is lying, even though he does not at that point even know he has had his Haldane potential set never mind has he been trained or shown how to use the abilities.

Mind-Speech and Rapport both seem to require a little more deliberate use, but they do not seem to be difficult abilities to learn and use, assuming both parties are participating in the conversation or Rapport, and those are likewise fairly basic Deryni abilities.  Beast-Speaking reads to me like a specific application of Rapport, except between a Deryni and an animal rather than two (or more) people.

Energy Augmentation in turn requires more effort than Mind-Speech or Rapport but is also fairly easy to use, assuming again willing participation of all relevant parties.

Using Shiral Crystals as an aid to meditation and/or concentration also seems to be a fairly simple Deryni capability, so I think most of those are adequately covered by the basic Power (Deryni) trait.

Mind Control, Staring Patterns, Scrying, Dowsing, Object Reading, Handfire, Conjuring Flame, and Fatigue Banishing as well as setting Wards Major would all fall under Spell-Trained, since those require not only effort but knowledge of how to do those things.

Telekinesis the game trait would include the basic telekinesis Deryni ability (such as picking a lock or bringing an object closer to oneself), and I'd think also using a Portal (as opposed to building one, which is a much more involved undertaking) would also be a function of Telekinesis.

Ritual Magic (game trait) would be things like the Duel Arcane, Attuning an Object, Sympathetic Magic, some of the intermediate-to-advanced applications of Ward Cubes, Casting a Circle, and the more involved Scrying techniques.

Shape-Changing probably ought to require a character to be have the Telekinesis (because part of the operation involves shifting the mass of [usually] one's own body to resemble the desired shape), Spell-Trained, and Ritual Magic traits, since that's a fairly advanced application.

The sword spells that fall under Dark Magic in Deryni Magic I think are a combined function of Telekinesis and Spell-Trained.

I think Spell Master should be a required trait for any character wishing to construct or destroy a Portal, produce Pure Conjury, the more advanced operations with Ward Cubes, and Empowering Humans.  Also, the darker abilities, such as binding a soul to a dead body and the Forbidden Spell would probably be out of reach to anyone without the Spell Master trait.

A character with the basic Healing trait would require Spell-Trained in addition to be able to do any higher-order Healing work, including placing a preservation spell on a body, and they would also need the Blocking trait to be able to Block power, since in canon, Blocking is a sub-trait of certain Healers, but I think to do basic Healing functions, such as closing a wound, they just need the dice to fall in their favor. :D

Thoughts?
« Last Edit: May 23, 2018, 01:00:13 pm by Bynw »
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Offline Bynw

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Re: Rules Errata
« Reply #16 on: May 23, 2018, 01:06:53 pm »
These are all of those Traits as the currently stand:


Artificer (Deryni):
You have learned to create magic items. To use this ability, describe what you want the item to do and perform a standard 2d6 Test. Failure means that it may not be set correctly with sometimes devastating results or no results at all. If successful, you know the proper recipe of ingredients needed to create the item. The Game Master will tell you what you need and how long it will take to craft the item. It is up to you to gather all the items. Once you have everything on the list, you must work uninterrupted until the item is complete.

Awaken (Deryni):
You can give Deryni like power to a Human. Thus they have the ability to learn further Deryni only Traits, with the Game Masterís permission. The newly Awakened has the Power Trait automatically and can gain any others that the Deryni using this Trait has on a successful 1d6 Test.

Beastspeaker (Deryni):
You are able to communicate with animals. This form of communication is primitive and very simplistic.

Blocker (Deryni):
You have the ability to make any Deryni into a human by blocking their Psionic abilities with just a Standard Test. You can also restore any blocked Deryni with a Standard Test. This Trait requires the Healer Trait. There is no save Test against this Trait.

Healer (Deryni):
As an Action, you can Test 2d6 to heal another creature or Test 1d6 to heal yourself. If the Test is successful, the target creature is healed for 1d6 Hit Points or 1d6/2 (round up) Hit Point if used on yourself. This Trait can also be used to cure poison, disease, and other physical ailments that are non-magical. You must be next to the creature to heal it.

Power (Deryni):
You have power because of your species or you are a human that has been granted power by another Deryni. You can read minds of others, create hand-fire or light a campfire or candle, you can tell if someone is lying. And you can communicate telepathically with others. Doing this is an action, and you must make a Test at a Disadvantage 1d6. If you are trying to manipulate an object or creature, you must have eye contact with it. You can also perform a simple Ranged attack, such as throwing a ball of kinetic energy, which is treated just like any other Ranged attack in Combat. Or even stopping someone's heart from a short distance.

Ritual Magic (Deryni):
You are more adept at channeling the arcane power flowing through your veins and can empower greater magical effects through rituals. There are specific rituals for nearly every purpose. With a successful Test, you can affect a wider area, more targets, or create a more powerful result. As always, the Game Master is the judge of what you can and cannot attempt to do. You can dispel the magical effects of Artificer objects. Ritual Magic is a Standard Test that succeeds on a 4,5, or 6 due to the focal nature of Rituals. This Trait requires the Spell-Trained Trait.

Shapechange (Deryni):
As an Action, you can Test 2d6 to transform into someone else, compleating changing oneís appearance and even gender. You can revert to your normal form as an Action.

Spell Master (Deryni):
You have learned to push your inherent magical abilities to their upmost potential. All of your Deryni power Tests at an Advantage. The Game Master is the judge of what you can and cannot attempt to do. This Trait requires the Ritual Magic Trait.

Spell-Trained (Deryni):
You have been given a full set of training in the Deryni Arts. There is almost nothing you cannot do with your powers. You use a Standard Test 2d6 on all of your Deryni powers now. This Trait requires the Power Trait.

Telekinesis (Deryni):
You can move small options just by thinking about it. You must have eye contact with the object and make a standard

Offline DesertRose

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Re: Rules Errata
« Reply #17 on: May 23, 2018, 01:09:16 pm »

Okay, that helps a lot.

At the moment, I'm not certain what is meant by the traits of Artificer and Awaken.  Could you please let me know where to find definitions of those traits, Bynw?

I think that the abilities in Magic of Shields, Mind-Speech, Energy Augmentation, Rapport, Truth-Reading, and Memory would all fall under the game trait of Power, because those are all fairly basic Deryni abilities.

The default position of a Deryni's Shields is raised but in a fairly relaxed fashion, IMO, and Shields tend to be present without conscious effort (and sometimes even without knowledge, as Dhugal's when Kelson discovers his Shields early in The Bishop's Heir, or as Darcy's in game).

Likewise the Deryni-specific enhanced Memory abilities seem to be fairly passive; it doesn't often seem like anyone in canon is trying very hard to remember clearly, except in a few specific instances.  One example of someone actually trying to utilize Memory might be Camber using the automatic writing-type operation to tap into his memory of what he saw through Ariella's eyes after the scrying operation, almost immediately afterward, for fear that the memory would fade if he didn't write it all down as soon as possible.

Truth-Reading seems to be a Deryni talent that doesn't require a lot of conscious effort, as demonstrated by Javan (Alroy's twin, not Kelson's son) just knowing that someone is lying, even though he does not at that point even know he has had his Haldane potential set never mind has he been trained or shown how to use the abilities.

Mind-Speech and Rapport both seem to require a little more deliberate use, but they do not seem to be difficult abilities to learn and use, assuming both parties are participating in the conversation or Rapport, and those are likewise fairly basic Deryni abilities.  Beast-Speaking reads to me like a specific application of Rapport, except between a Deryni and an animal rather than two (or more) people.

Energy Augmentation in turn requires more effort than Mind-Speech or Rapport but is also fairly easy to use, assuming again willing participation of all relevant parties.

Using Shiral Crystals as an aid to meditation and/or concentration also seems to be a fairly simple Deryni capability, so I think most of those are adequately covered by the basic Power (Deryni) trait.

Mind Control, Staring Patterns, Scrying, Dowsing, Object Reading, Handfire, Conjuring Flame, and Fatigue Banishing as well as setting Wards Major would all fall under Spell-Trained, since those require not only effort but knowledge of how to do those things.

Telekinesis the game trait would include the basic telekinesis Deryni ability (such as picking a lock or bringing an object closer to oneself), and I'd think also using a Portal (as opposed to building one, which is a much more involved undertaking) would also be a function of Telekinesis.

Ritual Magic (game trait) would be things like the Duel Arcane, Attuning an Object, Sympathetic Magic, some of the intermediate-to-advanced applications of Ward Cubes, Casting a Circle, and the more involved Scrying techniques.

Shape-Changing probably ought to require a character to be have the Telekinesis (because part of the operation involves shifting the mass of [usually] one's own body to resemble the desired shape), Spell-Trained, and Ritual Magic traits, since that's a fairly advanced application.

The sword spells that fall under Dark Magic in Deryni Magic I think are a combined function of Telekinesis and Spell-Trained.

I think Spell Master should be a required trait for any character wishing to construct or destroy a Portal, produce Pure Conjury, the more advanced operations with Ward Cubes, and Empowering Humans.  Also, the darker abilities, such as binding a soul to a dead body and the Forbidden Spell would probably be out of reach to anyone without the Spell Master trait.

A character with the basic Healing trait would require Spell-Trained in addition to be able to do any higher-order Healing work, including placing a preservation spell on a body, and they would also need the Blocking trait to be able to Block power, since in canon, Blocking is a sub-trait of certain Healers, but I think to do basic Healing functions, such as closing a wound, they just need the dice to fall in their favor. :D

Thoughts?
These are all of those Traits as the currently stand:


Artificer (Deryni):
You have learned to create magic items. To use this ability, describe what you want the item to do and perform a standard 2d6 Test. Failure means that it may not be set correctly with sometimes devastating results or no results at all. If successful, you know the proper recipe of ingredients needed to create the item. The Game Master will tell you what you need and how long it will take to craft the item. It is up to you to gather all the items. Once you have everything on the list, you must work uninterrupted until the item is complete.

Awaken (Deryni):
You can give Deryni like power to a Human. Thus they have the ability to learn further Deryni only Traits, with the Game Masterís permission. The newly Awakened has the Power Trait automatically and can gain any others that the Deryni using this Trait has on a successful 1d6 Test.

Beastspeaker (Deryni):
You are able to communicate with animals. This form of communication is primitive and very simplistic.

Blocker (Deryni):
You have the ability to make any Deryni into a human by blocking their Psionic abilities with just a Standard Test. You can also restore any blocked Deryni with a Standard Test. This Trait requires the Healer Trait. There is no save Test against this Trait.

Healer (Deryni):
As an Action, you can Test 2d6 to heal another creature or Test 1d6 to heal yourself. If the Test is successful, the target creature is healed for 1d6 Hit Points or 1d6/2 (round up) Hit Point if used on yourself. This Trait can also be used to cure poison, disease, and other physical ailments that are non-magical. You must be next to the creature to heal it.

Power (Deryni):
You have power because of your species or you are a human that has been granted power by another Deryni. You can read minds of others, create hand-fire or light a campfire or candle, you can tell if someone is lying. And you can communicate telepathically with others. Doing this is an action, and you must make a Test at a Disadvantage 1d6. If you are trying to manipulate an object or creature, you must have eye contact with it. You can also perform a simple Ranged attack, such as throwing a ball of kinetic energy, which is treated just like any other Ranged attack in Combat. Or even stopping someone's heart from a short distance.

Ritual Magic (Deryni):
You are more adept at channeling the arcane power flowing through your veins and can empower greater magical effects through rituals. There are specific rituals for nearly every purpose. With a successful Test, you can affect a wider area, more targets, or create a more powerful result. As always, the Game Master is the judge of what you can and cannot attempt to do. You can dispel the magical effects of Artificer objects. Ritual Magic is a Standard Test that succeeds on a 4,5, or 6 due to the focal nature of Rituals. This Trait requires the Spell-Trained Trait.

Shapechange (Deryni):
As an Action, you can Test 2d6 to transform into someone else, compleating changing oneís appearance and even gender. You can revert to your normal form as an Action.

Spell Master (Deryni):
You have learned to push your inherent magical abilities to their upmost potential. All of your Deryni power Tests at an Advantage. The Game Master is the judge of what you can and cannot attempt to do. This Trait requires the Ritual Magic Trait.

Spell-Trained (Deryni):
You have been given a full set of training in the Deryni Arts. There is almost nothing you cannot do with your powers. You use a Standard Test 2d6 on all of your Deryni powers now. This Trait requires the Power Trait.

Telekinesis (Deryni):
You can move small options just by thinking about it. You must have eye contact with the object and make a standard

In that case, I think Artificer ought to require the Spell-Trained and Ritual Magic traits, with Spell Master as "nice to have but not mandatory," and Awaken ought to require Spell Master as well as Spell Trained and Ritual Magic.
"If having a soul means being able to feel love, loyalty, and gratitude, then animals are better off than a lot of humans."

James Herriot (James Alfred "Alfie" Wight), when a human client asked him if animals have souls.  (I don't remember in which book the story originally appeared.)

Offline Bynw

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Re: Rules Errata
« Reply #18 on: May 23, 2018, 02:35:03 pm »
A note on the Telekinesis Trait. I included it as a separate Trait since it was mentioned somewhere either in Deryni Magic or Deryni Rising that some Deryni weren't well skilled in it as Alaric Morgan was. But I also include it somewhat in the description of the basic Trait of Power for the ability to kill by stopping a heart.

It could be folded back into Power with better odds as one gets more training. Because with the Deryni in KK's world they aren't doing world shattering TK tricks. They aren't living Xwings out of a swamp. They aren't pulling down a castle at the molecular level and reassembling it. They aren't doing other fantastic TK feats either. They are just moving small things that don't weigh a lot. And it takes multiple Deryni to lift even 1 body.


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Re: Rules Errata
« Reply #19 on: May 23, 2018, 03:28:23 pm »


Shape-Changing probably ought to require a character to be have the Telekinesis (because part of the operation involves shifting the mass of [usually] one's own body to resemble the desired shape), Spell-Trained, and Ritual Magic traits, since that's a fairly advanced application.


I think I agree with most of DR's thoughts, except I tend to see this particular trait differently (and have been playing it differently in-game with Aliset's shape-changing).  I don't tend to see it as actually physically shifting one's mass from one set of features to another at the molecular or even cellular level,  although if I did visualize it that way, I can see why that might be a form of telekinesis.  But I don't think the Deryni telekinetic ability allows for anything quite that complicated.  How I see it is more along the lines as the ability to cast an illusory shape-change that others perceive, and that the caster him/herself can also perceive in a reflection, but which is actually more an advanced form of illusion magic than an advanced form of telekinesis.  It would be somewhat akin to Duncan being able to create the illusion of a wall of flame separating his followers from Sicard's men and Loris during the Mearan War, buying time for as many of them to get away as possible.  The flames looked real, they emitted heat and light, but they were ultimately an illusion.  I think shape-changing is a similar yet different skill.  It is similar in that it is a fairly advanced form of illusion magic, only it is one that is superimposed onto a physical form, and if the illusion spell is cast properly, able to be sustained indefinitely without conscious thought.

I should note that Aliset's template shows her as having the Spell-Casting trait but not Telekinesis, so if we do change this to have Spell-Casting be an advanced form of Telekinesis, then I will need to adjust her profile accordingly, but if I have to drop some other trait to add TK to her list, that might mean that some of her previous actions might therefore not fall under her amended abilities as a result.
« Last Edit: May 23, 2018, 03:31:07 pm by Evie »
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Offline DesertRose

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Re: Rules Errata
« Reply #20 on: May 23, 2018, 03:40:50 pm »


Shape-Changing probably ought to require a character to be have the Telekinesis (because part of the operation involves shifting the mass of [usually] one's own body to resemble the desired shape), Spell-Trained, and Ritual Magic traits, since that's a fairly advanced application.


I think I agree with most of DR's thoughts, except I tend to see this particular trait differently (and have been playing it differently in-game with Aliset's shape-changing).  I don't tend to see it as actually physically shifting one's mass from one set of features to another at the molecular or even cellular level,  although if I did visualize it that way, I can see why that might be a form of telekinesis.  But I don't think the Deryni telekinetic ability allows for anything quite that complicated.  How I see it is more along the lines as the ability to cast an illusory shape-change that others perceive, and that the caster him/herself can also perceive in a reflection, but which is actually more an advanced form of illusion magic than an advanced form of telekinesis.  It would be somewhat akin to Duncan being able to create the illusion of a wall of flame separating his followers from Sicard's men and Loris during the Mearan War, buying time for as many of them to get away as possible.  The flames looked real, they emitted heat and light, but they were ultimately an illusion.  I think shape-changing is a similar yet different skill.  It is similar in that it is a fairly advanced form of illusion magic, only it is one that is superimposed onto a physical form, and if the illusion spell is cast properly, able to be sustained indefinitely without conscious thought.

I should note that Aliset's template shows her as having the Spell-Casting trait but not Telekinesis, so if we do change this to have Spell-Casting be an advanced form of Telekinesis, then I will need to adjust her profile accordingly, but if I have to drop some other trait to add TK to her list, that might mean that some of her previous actions might therefore not fall under her amended abilities as a result.

Well, what Aliset did might in fact be more of an illusion than an actual shape-change, but when KK discusses the concept of magically changing one's shape in Deryni Magic, she mentions that the subject being shape-changed needs to be fairly similar in terms of physical height, build, and general proportion to the person whose shape they are taking, as with Camber and Alister; both men were fairly tall, fairly thin men, so the actual shape-changing wasn't all that difficult (by Camber's metric, and he is likely one of the great Spell Masters of canon, to say the least!).  For a slightly later example, Davin and the royal guard whose shape he takes to try to protect the princes are likewise of similar height and size.  I believe she even says, probably with tongue firmly in cheek, that shape-changing is not a Deryni substitute for dieting.

That's what leads me to believe that some small-scale telekinesis is involved in terms of rearranging the features of the shape-changer to the configuration required to pass as the other person.
"If having a soul means being able to feel love, loyalty, and gratitude, then animals are better off than a lot of humans."

James Herriot (James Alfred "Alfie" Wight), when a human client asked him if animals have souls.  (I don't remember in which book the story originally appeared.)

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Re: Rules Errata
« Reply #21 on: May 23, 2018, 04:35:22 pm »


Shape-Changing probably ought to require a character to be have the Telekinesis (because part of the operation involves shifting the mass of [usually] one's own body to resemble the desired shape), Spell-Trained, and Ritual Magic traits, since that's a fairly advanced application.


I think I agree with most of DR's thoughts, except I tend to see this particular trait differently (and have been playing it differently in-game with Aliset's shape-changing).  I don't tend to see it as actually physically shifting one's mass from one set of features to another at the molecular or even cellular level,  although if I did visualize it that way, I can see why that might be a form of telekinesis.  But I don't think the Deryni telekinetic ability allows for anything quite that complicated.  How I see it is more along the lines as the ability to cast an illusory shape-change that others perceive, and that the caster him/herself can also perceive in a reflection, but which is actually more an advanced form of illusion magic than an advanced form of telekinesis.  It would be somewhat akin to Duncan being able to create the illusion of a wall of flame separating his followers from Sicard's men and Loris during the Mearan War, buying time for as many of them to get away as possible.  The flames looked real, they emitted heat and light, but they were ultimately an illusion.  I think shape-changing is a similar yet different skill.  It is similar in that it is a fairly advanced form of illusion magic, only it is one that is superimposed onto a physical form, and if the illusion spell is cast properly, able to be sustained indefinitely without conscious thought.

I should note that Aliset's template shows her as having the Spell-Casting trait but not Telekinesis, so if we do change this to have Spell-Casting be an advanced form of Telekinesis, then I will need to adjust her profile accordingly, but if I have to drop some other trait to add TK to her list, that might mean that some of her previous actions might therefore not fall under her amended abilities as a result.

Well, what Aliset did might in fact be more of an illusion than an actual shape-change, but when KK discusses the concept of magically changing one's shape in Deryni Magic, she mentions that the subject being shape-changed needs to be fairly similar in terms of physical height, build, and general proportion to the person whose shape they are taking, as with Camber and Alister; both men were fairly tall, fairly thin men, so the actual shape-changing wasn't all that difficult (by Camber's metric, and he is likely one of the great Spell Masters of canon, to say the least!).  For a slightly later example, Davin and the royal guard whose shape he takes to try to protect the princes are likewise of similar height and size.  I believe she even says, probably with tongue firmly in cheek, that shape-changing is not a Deryni substitute for dieting.

That's what leads me to believe that some small-scale telekinesis is involved in terms of rearranging the features of the shape-changer to the configuration required to pass as the other person.

Well, yes, it certainly could mean that, but it could also simply mean that one can't very well convincingly superimpose the image of a mouse on something the size of a terrier, to pick a fairly ridiculous example, or for something more to the point, it would be hard to convince anyone that a 6'4" man is actually dainty little Meraude, no matter how skillfully one casts the illusion of her features and general form, because that is a pretty big size disparity!
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Offline DesertRose

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Re: Rules Errata
« Reply #22 on: May 23, 2018, 04:40:18 pm »
Good point.

I'm going to let Bynw chime in before I say anything else, which will also give me a little cogitation time.  :)
"If having a soul means being able to feel love, loyalty, and gratitude, then animals are better off than a lot of humans."

James Herriot (James Alfred "Alfie" Wight), when a human client asked him if animals have souls.  (I don't remember in which book the story originally appeared.)

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Re: Rules Errata
« Reply #23 on: May 23, 2018, 05:07:36 pm »
so we are still going with the progression of Power ---> Spell Trained ---> Ritual Magic ---> Spell Master like the original order?

Offline DesertRose

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Re: Rules Errata
« Reply #24 on: May 23, 2018, 05:11:05 pm »
so we are still going with the progression of Power ---> Spell Trained ---> Ritual Magic ---> Spell Master like the original order?

I think so, yes.

What do you think regarding Shape-Changing vis-a-vis Telekinesis?  :)
"If having a soul means being able to feel love, loyalty, and gratitude, then animals are better off than a lot of humans."

James Herriot (James Alfred "Alfie" Wight), when a human client asked him if animals have souls.  (I don't remember in which book the story originally appeared.)

Offline Evie

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Re: Rules Errata
« Reply #25 on: May 23, 2018, 05:33:56 pm »
so we are still going with the progression of Power ---> Spell Trained ---> Ritual Magic ---> Spell Master like the original order?

This progression makes the most sense to me.
"In necessariis unitas, in non-necessariis libertas, in utrisque caritas."

--WARNING!!!--
I have a vocabulary in excess of 75,000 words, and I'm not afraid to use it!

Offline Bynw

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Re: Rules Errata
« Reply #26 on: May 23, 2018, 05:40:39 pm »
TK wont be required for Shapechanging. It will just kinda be part of the magic of that Trait over all. We know it's limitations. It's half illusion and half real. Like a HoloDeck.

Offline revanne

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Re: Rules Errata
« Reply #27 on: May 24, 2018, 10:19:59 am »
For me the problem with Columcil comes with his border heritage which in Canon can give ability to do things akin to those a Deryni might, though at a primitive level. Ciard is a very good example of this. He knows about some sort of warding, can sense power (the rings taken from Loris and Goronowy) and the presence of people ( he knows that Dhugal and Kelson are approaching Transha) and teaches Duncan and Morgan to dowse. Is any of this allowed for in the role-playing rules? Or do I just carry on as I have been doing, using it occasionally and hoping for the good graces of the Games Master?

Let God rise up, let his enemies be scattered;
    let those who hate him flee before him.
As smoke is driven away, so drive them away;
    as wax melts before the fire,
    let the wicked perish before God.
(Psalm 68 vv1-2)

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Re: Rules Errata
« Reply #28 on: May 24, 2018, 10:21:32 am »
For me the problem with Columcil comes with his border heritage which in Canon can give ability to do things akin to those a Deryni might, though at a primitive level. Ciard is a very good example of this. He knows about some sort of warding, can sense power (the rings taken from Loris and Goronowy) and the presence of people ( he knows that Dhugal and Kelson are approaching Transha) and teaches Duncan and Morgan to dowse. Is any of this allowed for in the role-playing rules? Or do I just carry on as I have been doing, using it occasionally and hoping for the good graces of the Games Master?

Just carry on for now. He's what Deryni  Magic would call a Were-Deryni if he isnt just a Deryni in disguise.

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Re: Rules Errata
« Reply #29 on: May 24, 2018, 12:04:17 pm »
This might not be a cannon explanation but I strongly believe that 2nd sight is a separate genetic way of using the magic that is in the 11 kingdom world. If magic is an innate physical force in this world, then different peoples from different areas would have evolved to use that physical force in different but similar ways.
(ie in the real world, flying is a possibility. Birds developed flight by evolving highly structured feathers that cup and hold the air in such a way that they can maintain altitude. For an Elephant this will seem like Magic. Other creatures can fly too. Bats developed extending lengths of skin with little hair that can cup the wind and carry them in flight. Watch a monkey-bat fly and be amazed at it's size and wonder how it can stay aloft. Flying squirrels formed similar stretches of skin to allow them to jump from tree to tree. Flying fish formed special fins that wave so fast they can skim across the water.)
IF the physical force of flying exists, than nature can developed many forms to use it.

Magic is just like flying. Many forms of magic have evolved in different groups of people. Deryni are the Birds, highly specialize to use that physical force to the best advantage. Peoples with second sight are like the bats, they found their own way to use the magic in their world. There may be other forms of animals that actually use magic too, like the flying squirrels and the flying fish. And people like us humans watch all those that can fly or those that can use magic and we are jealous and envious to the point where we find a way to fly too. If there weren't birds in our world, we would never have thought to build airplanes. Our players live in a medieval world where science has not yet progressed enough to study how magic works and to find a way to do it if you were not born to it. But that may come in time.

 

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