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Author Topic: KK Chat -- 4 February 2018  (Read 944 times)

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Offline Evie

  • Administrator
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  • Posts: 2013
  • Karma: 30
  • Gender: Female
  • Sister Evie--Servant of Saint Camber
    • The Mini-Deryni Chronicles
  • Favorite Book: High Deryni or The King's Justice (can't decide)
  • Favorite Character: President of the Duncan McLain Fanbabe Society
KK Chat -- 4 February 2018
« on: February 04, 2018, 06:20:43 pm »
[04:22.10] * KK (~473e1dd9@OWIRCN-1bdd9d77.org) has joined channel #deryni_destinations
[04:22.13] <Evie> Hi KK
[04:22.13] <Alkari> Got the little spot of cancer out with good margins and almost no blood loss.   
[04:22.15] <~DesertRose> Hi KK!
[04:22.16] <Eyikl> hi KK
[04:22.20] <revanne> Hi KK
[04:22.20] <Derynifank> Hi KK
[04:22.21] <Evie> Oh good, Alkari!
[04:22.22] <drakensis> hi
[04:22.23] <~bynw> hiyas KK
[04:22.23] <Alkari> Hi KK
[04:22.30] <revanne> That's very good news Alkari.
[04:22.33] * The_Bee (~The_Bee@OWIRCN-8d5487f9.clients.kiwiirc.com) has joined channel #deryni_destinations
[04:22.39] <Evie> Hi Bee
[04:22.43] <revanne> Hi Bee
[04:22.44] * WidowSon (~WidowSon@OWIRCN-8d5487f9.clients.kiwiirc.com) has joined channel #deryni_destinations
[04:22.49] <Derynifank> Good news Alkari
[04:22.50] <Evie> Rehi, WidowSon
[04:22.54] <Demercia> Pneumovax sounds like a super efficient brand of hoover
[04:22.55] <The_Bee> Hi everyone!
[04:23.04] <Alkari> And anaesthetic was interesting - a 2 phase one
[04:23.05] <Eyikl> hi Bee, WidowSon
[04:23.08] <KK> Here I am.  Got wound up in a loooong phone conversation with my sister, and then Scott got home from  Burns Night do in DC last night, and I had to have a cup of tea with him and catch up on what went on. 
[04:23.16] * Evie passes WidowSon some duct tape so he can stick to the chatroom.  ;-)
[04:23.18] <Demercia> hi KK
[04:23.24] <Demercia> and Bee
[04:23.36] <revanne> Cups of tea with DH are important.
[04:23.41] <The_Bee> You new here, WidowSon?
[04:23.42] <~DesertRose> Hi Bee and rehi WidowSon
[04:23.50] <~bynw> Hi Bee
[04:23.54] <Alkari> Tea and Chat = Excellent
[04:24.08] <Evie> Luke is sprawled asleep on both of my wrists
[04:24.28] <Alkari> hard to type!!
[04:24.30] <KK> I've had sprawling cats here, too.  Filthy day out.
[04:24.39] <Derynifank> That must make typing fun Evie
[04:25.01] <Alkari> ARe you still all in the midst of dreadful cold?
[04:25.09] <Eyikl> hi Luke. Is your bed comfy?
[04:25.12] <Evie> The dratted little nuisance decided to escape during a very cold and rainy evening, and led me a merry chase trying to find him and coax him back in before pouring rain did the job for me.
[04:25.16] * Demercia (Demercia@842092.C19ECF.14EC38.D4644D) Quit (Quit: ++http://www.kiwiirc.com/,, - A hand crafted IRC client)
[04:25.17] <Alkari> I have had friends return from USA and said hoiw bitter it was
[04:25.21] <~bynw> KK, can you believe it's been 5 years since we lost Dawson/ambush
[04:25.36] <KK> We've had "wintry mix" since about 0700.
[04:25.37] <Evie> And even then, he wanted to stand halfway in the doorway, unsure if he wanted to go the rest of the way inside
[04:25.42] * Demercia (~Demercia@OWIRCN-8d5487f9.clients.kiwiirc.com) has joined channel #deryni_destinations
[04:25.51] <The_Bee> hi demercia
[04:26.07] <~DesertRose> Hi Demercia
[04:26.12] <~DesertRose> Or rehi
[04:26.16] <Alkari> One lot of friends had been skiiing in USA, then went to NYC for a week - and said they never got out of their ski gear!!
[04:26.22] <KK> Five years, Bynw.  But at least you have memories.
[04:26.34] <Evie> Yes, we've had usual Ontario winter temps here for a few weeks at a time, which wouldn't be so bad if we were in Ontario, but Alabama should be a good deal warmer! 
[04:26.42] <Derynifank> It's miserable here too but at least it's all rain
[04:26.48] <Demercia> Hi.  Tried to take a picture of a sleeping ginger and got booted 😼
[04:26.59] <Laurna> Hi KK, looks like most the tribe is here. Still need Shiral and Jerusha.
[04:27.01] <Alkari> revenge of The Cat
[04:27.08] <Evie> Five years hardly seems possible, Bynw
[04:27.12] <revanne> Hi Laurna.
[04:27.15] <~bynw> KK, very fond memories indeed. But I miss my redheaded kiddo
[04:27.17] <Demercia> 😸
[04:27.21] <Eyikl> I assume you mean ski coats, hats, and things Alkari, not skis and boots, but that sounds right for sometimes.
[04:27.22] <Laurna> Rain did some mention rain.  Can I have some
[04:27.43] <Evie> You can have our rain, Laurna
[04:27.45] <revanne> ;-( Bynw
[04:27.47] <Demercia> hi Laurna.  We've got a full house tonight
[04:27.52] <Alkari> They said they were almost prepared to ski in Central Park!!
[04:27.58] <Derynifank> Happy to share
[04:27.59] <Evie> I can handle rain, and I can handle cold, but I hate cold rain
[04:28.14] <revanne> Sleet or hail is the worst.
[04:28.17] <The_Bee> Jemler's still missing.
[04:28.22] <Alkari> You can have some of our recent heatwaves,
[04:28.42] <Demercia> We've just had a lovely carol service for Candlemass.  Lots of cheery light.
[04:28.47] <Alkari> Two weeks ago that cancelled a dressage competition as the forecast was for 41-45C
[04:28.53] <Evie> Can we mix a cold front and a heat wave? Oh wait, let's not do that...that's how you make tornadoes! We get enough of those!
[04:29.25] <Evie> Wow, that's hot!
[04:29.26] <Laurna> Evie No tornadoes please
[04:29.29] <Derynifank> Have to feed DH. BRB
[04:29.38] <revanne> Did you say a special prayer for Bishop Duncan, Demercia?
[04:29.56] <Demercia> we'll send some English rain to cool him down
[04:30.12] <Evie> Yes, Bishop Duncan says to pray for his deliverance from the beanie and hipster glasses I'm making him wear.  ;-)
[04:30.21] <Demercia> you not him.  I'm not sending rain on Duncan
[04:30.28] <Alkari> Poor Duncan!!!   Cruel evie!!
[04:31.07] <Demercia> at least he still has a head to put the beanie on
[04:31.14] <revanne> Didn't you have him do a rain spell in one of your stories, Evie?
[04:31.19] <Laurna> LOL true that
[04:31.27] <KK> True.  And I believe he's kept this head for several years now.
[04:31.41] <Evie> ++http://www.rhemuthcastle.com/index.php/topic,844.msg18445.html#msg18445,,
[04:32.01] <Evie> Yes, his head is more securely attached on this new body.
[04:32.20] <Alkari> I am sure he is grateful
[04:32.25] <Evie> Although the body itself is still a bit too stiff and hard to pose for my liking, but that should loosen with time.
[04:32.33] <Alkari> Headless Duncan not a nice idea
[04:32.52] <Alkari> though interesting for Halloween!
[04:32.54] <~DesertRose> Okay, I'm going to bail because I am really not feeling well.  Evie and/or bynw, can one of y'all please post the log?
[04:33.08] <Evie> Or I might try to tighten up the joints in his original body and put him back on that one if I can get his head to stay on it securely
[04:33.10] * WidowSon (~WidowSon@OWIRCN-8d5487f9.clients.kiwiirc.com) Quit (Quit: ++http://www.kiwiirc.com/,, - A hand crafted IRC client)
[04:33.12] <Alkari> BYe DR - look after yourself and feel better
[04:33.13] <Laurna> Be well DR.  good night
[04:33.16] <~bynw> we got it. take care and feel better DesertRose
[04:33.16] <Evie> We've got it, DR.
[04:33.16] <Demercia> Take care and get some rest
[04:33.20] <drakensis> night DR
[04:33.22] <Eyikl> goodnight DesertRose
[04:33.44] <~DesertRose> Thanks.  I'm sorry to miss you when you finally are able to be here, Alkari, and I hate to miss early chat in general since we usually get to hang out longer, but I need to get horizontal.  G'night, all!
[04:33.48] <Derynifank> Goodnight dr. Feel better
[04:33.53] * DesertRose (~DesertRose@DesertRose.Editor.Writer.Creator) Quit (Quit: Leaving)
[04:34.16] * Evie is cleaning chalk paint off her fingernails
[04:34.21] <revanne> Rats, missed DR
[04:34.43] * WidowSon (~WidowSon@OWIRCN-8d5487f9.clients.kiwiirc.com) has joined channel #deryni_destinations
[04:34.49] <Laurna> No rats, no vermin of any kind please.
[04:34.49] <Evie> welcome back
[04:35.04] * Demercia (~Demercia@OWIRCN-8d5487f9.clients.kiwiirc.com) Quit (Quit: ++http://www.kiwiirc.com/,, - A hand crafted IRC client)
[04:35.07] * bynw is sitting out in the living room with the laptop and watching the build up to the super bowl
[04:35.24] <Evie> Hm. Wonder if Kiwi is acting up?
[04:35.27] <revanne> LOL - sorry. Only virtual rats.
[04:35.47] <Laurna> lol I'll watch the puppy bowl
[04:35.55] <Evie> I'm sure DR would be glad that any non-virtual rats missed her!
[04:36.00] * Demercia (~Demercia@OWIRCN-8d5487f9.clients.kiwiirc.com) has joined channel #deryni_destinations
[04:36.04] <Evie> re-hi
[04:36.10] <The_Bee> rehi demercia
[04:36.14] <Eyikl> KK, I have a question about the Deryni world. Or maybe five.
[04:36.17] <Alkari> Yes, poor DR seems to have had all sorts of pests
[04:36.33] <revanne> Carys would have sorted them anyway. We have enough furry friends between us to sort out any number of rats.
[04:36.43] <Demercia> Rehi everyone
[04:37.00] <The_Bee> WidowSon, are you a big fan of the Adept series?
[04:37.17] <Evie> I had a question about the Deryni world too. Too bad I don't remember it now. LOL!
[04:37.18] * Derynifank (Derynifank@OWIRCN-dc339139.hr.cox.net) Quit (Quit: ++http://www.kiwiirc.com/,, - A hand crafted IRC client)
[04:37.40] <revanne> OOps Kiwi is playing up.
[04:38.42] <Eyikl> You could have written it down somewhere, Evie. Ifind notes to myself all the time.
[04:38.42] * WidowSon (~WidowSon@OWIRCN-8d5487f9.clients.kiwiirc.com) Quit (Quit: ++http://www.kiwiirc.com/,, - A hand crafted IRC client)
[04:39.20] <The_Bee> How many people has Kiwi booted so far?
[04:39.35] <Evie> WidowSon and Demercia, that I've noticed
[04:39.43] <revanne> I put things in safe places and then never find them again. Only three but several times, Bee.
[04:39.46] <The_Bee> repeatedly
[04:39.48] <Eyikl> Just three, I think,. But the same three over and over
[04:39.54] <~bynw> only seems to be 3 people but it might be due to any number of reasons since it is web-based
[04:40.06] * bynw sets mode +ooo KK Laurna revanne for #deryni_destinations
[04:40.08] <@KK> Fire away on questions.  (I just got a call-back from my mom's caregiver, since I won't be making it down to the cottage today.  Long phone conversation with my sister, plus crappy weather.)
[04:40.20] * bynw sets mode +ooo Alkari bynw[rpi] Demercia for #deryni_destinations
[04:40.32] <Eyikl> Thanks. During the power assumption ceremonies often a Deryni character can sense the archangels, in one book Cinhil and Camber see Heaven, and sometimes Morgan or Duncan sense a Divine Being. Does this mean that in their world Western Catholicism is correct about how the universe operates, or is it more like Deryni powers conform to what an indivi
[04:40.32] <Eyikl> dual believes about the world?
[04:40.32] * bynw sets mode +ooo drakensis Eyikl The_Bee for #deryni_destinations
[04:41.26] <@Demercia> Being booted is my own fault, my iPad will only let me do one thing at once.
[04:41.26] <~bynw> Eyikl, you cut off after Deryni powers conform to what an indivi.....
[04:41.42] <@KK> A combination of the two, I suspect.  (But with archangels, who can know for sure?)
[04:42.03] <Evie> I see the rest of her sentence on the following line, Bynw
[04:42.16] <@Eyikl> So Muslim Deryni see Mu’aqqibat (Muslim protection angels, I think), pagan Deryni see nature spirits, and so on?
[04:42.20] <~bynw> ok so do i, i just wasnt looking for it
[04:42.56] <@KK> That would work for me.
[04:43.05] <@Demercia> or maybe they see the same thing, they just name it differently?
[04:43.07] <@Eyikl> cool.
[04:43.15] <@drakensis> Which may or may not be the same ... er,. what Demerica said
[04:43.37] <@Alkari> Typical of many religions - they have same ideas/ theories, just call them different names
[04:43.43] <@KK> That also works for me.
[04:43.44] <@Eyikl> THey'd all say otherwise, I'm sure.
[04:43.52] <@KK> Of course.
[04:43.54] <@The_Bee> Evaine saw her husband and firstborn son.
[04:43.56] <@revanne> One of the things that drew me to your novels many years ago KK was that religious belief was taken seriously in them.
[04:44.26] <@KK> Well, if one is patterning after our real medieval times, they definitely believed.
[04:44.32] <@Alkari> which is exactly how it was for much of out medieval world
[04:44.42] <Evie> Same here, and also that the religious figures weren't by default the villains. There were good and bad people in the Church of Gwynedd.
[04:44.56] <@revanne> As in history.
[04:45.25] <@Alkari> Most of the population couldn't read, even if books were readily available, so all their ' education'  came thorough the Church and the stories told
[04:46.02] <@Alkari> Whis is why there was so much CHurch art and pictorial murals / ceiling painting
[04:46.50] <@KK> And having the bad guys think that they were doing the right thing also mirrors our world.  The bad guys quite often,if not usually, believe that what they are doing is the right thing, at least by their perspectives.
[04:46.51] <@Alkari> Revanne, I get a bit frustrated if I read medieval fics (set in our world) and religion ISN'T taken seriously
[04:47.19] <@Alkari> True oh true KK.
[04:48.05] <Evie> With the invention of the printing press, there was a greater availability for written materials even for those who weren't wealthy, and therefore a greater demand for literacy. And with the Reformation, there was an increased desire to have a literate public reading the Bible for themselves, leading eventually to the Sunday school movement.
[04:48.06] <@revanne> Totally agree Alkari because it's not a true portrayal.
[04:48.11] * Derynifank (Derynifank@OWIRCN-dc339139.hr.cox.net) has joined channel #deryni_destinations
[04:48.15] <@drakensis> people tend to have a personal narrative of events and who would be a villain in their own story?
[04:48.26] <@Eyikl> Well I think it may be because many authors aren't Christians, but like to write about medieval technology.
[04:49.07] <@Demercia> richard lll according to Shakespeare, Drakensis
[04:49.07] <@The_Bee> Fanatics are more dangerous than villains.  A villain will at least be restrained by self-interest.  A fanatic can justify anything in the name of their cause.
[04:49.43] <@revanne> Too true Bee.
[04:49.55] <@Demercia> though surely you can still do your research properly Eyikl?
[04:49.57] <Derynifank> Remeber Loris , definitely  a fanatic
[04:50.00] <@KK> Agree, Bee.
[04:50.30] <@Demercia> or rather they, my pronouns are all over the place tonight.
[04:50.39] <Evie> True, though it's really not an excuse because even athiestic authors like Joss Whedon and J. Michael Stracynzki (can't recall spelling) have written religious figures into their shows that aren't caricatures and have done it sympathetically and well.
[04:50.52] <@Alkari> AGree
[04:51.02] <@Eyikl> Well I think you can study Christianity, but I'm not sure that gives every author the mainset to understand HOW important it would have been.
[04:51.09] <@revanne> I think that's right Eyikl but even so it is to misunderstand the medieval world. I am on the whole bemused by sport but I still shouldn't write about the modern world without reference to its importance.
[04:51.59] <@Alkari> I think thwat these days, we are so used to communication, almost everyone being literate, and having universal education that we forget how that wasn';t the case in medieval times
[04:52.06] * bynw sets mode +o Derynifank for #deryni_destinations
[04:52.08] <@Eyikl> Also making up religions for your created world is fun?
[04:52.53] <Evie> I think a lot of fantasy writers want to put a medieval veneer on their worlds, without enough historical understanding of the medieval mindset to understand how the medieval worldview has an impact on their entire society.
[04:52.55] <@Alkari> Many people DID travel long distrances on pilgrimages etc, but for ost of them, even 20-30 miles could almost be ' on the moon'
[04:53.10] <@KK> Fun?  Not.  It can be an exercixe in frustration, because many elements of many religions don't make logical sense.  But faith is, by its nataure, somewhat illogical in many regards--and it's hard to invent that.
[04:53.19] <@drakensis> if you're travelling you're not working. if you're not working, how are you eating?
[04:53.25] <@Alkari> News only travelled as fast as a horse could go
[04:53.43] <@revanne> When we went to the ruins of Whitby Abbey once I was very annoyed by the audio guide which purported to be narrated by a medieval novice and went on about how much he hated the plain food and the services were boring etc etc. He sounded like a modern teenager not someone who was grateful to have escaped the drudgery of peasant life.
[04:53.50] <@Alkari> And verbal news got garbled!
[04:54.07] <@Alkari> LOL revanne - that really grates!
[04:54.12] <@Eyikl> I wouldn't put it past Brandon Sanderson to think that would be fun, KK.
[04:54.24] <@The_Bee> Who?
[04:54.40] <@drakensis> fantasy writer. the one who finished Wheel of Time
[04:55.08] <@drakensis> (sad I mention that but can't remember what his own series are called)
[04:55.09] <Evie> Lois McMaster Bujold invented a religion for her Chalion series that works really well for a fantasy religion, but then again, she's another writer who has studied history enough to understand how a society's religious/philosophical worldview impacts everything.
[04:55.13] <@The_Bee> Oh, yes.  IMHO he left too many loose ends.
[04:55.25] <@Eyikl> An authors who has written about 25 books in five or so worlds, all of which are rather complex.
[04:55.39] <@Derynifank> We might be better off today if "news" didn't travel so fast
[04:55.54] <@Demercia> Yes like someone I met at on a coach tour who went on about the awfulness of convent life for mediaeval women, and was really aback when I pointed out it meant not getting no pregnant every year.  She and the grace to admit she and never thought of that and would have to rethink
[04:56.13] <@Eyikl> We'd all feel better, certainly.
[04:56.49] <@revanne> I think people in the past would have remembered things better though when their minds weren't so overloaded.
[04:57.00] <Evie> Convent life also meant getting more of an education than most women in secular life had access to
[04:57.25] <@Alkari> Exactly.  And regular food, plus care for your whole life
[04:57.44] <Evie> Which is why it often became a widow's "retirement plan"
[04:58.17] <@Laurna>  The trouble was you could not have an education and a small faimly. you had to choose one life over the other.  All or none so to speak.
[04:58.31] <@Alkari> Well, you could if you were rich!!
[04:58.42] <@Alkari> Many rich women were highly educated.
[04:58.56] <@revanne> My Nan used to tell the tale of the scandal that happened in the big house near to the village where she grew up when the daughter of the family ran away with the coachman. I was quite shocked when I eventually discovered this event had happened in the seventeenth century. my Nan was born in 1889 but it had become part of local folk memory and so p
[04:58.56] <@revanne> art of her memory.
[04:59.01] <Evie> There were also the beguines, who had a life similar to convent life, but without the requirement of taking permanent vows. I wonder why that didn't catch on as much in England, since it seemed to work well for women in continental Europe
[04:59.04] <@Alkari> You are hardly suitable as a royal or high ranking noble bride if you weren't
[05:00.00] <@Alkari> The other thig that grates is where writers have noble women sitting around  and being ' decorative'  ladies
[05:00.41] <@Eyikl> Running the whole catle?
[05:00.46] <@KK> Few households could have afforded the luxury of women who didn't contribute something besides babies.
[05:00.48] <@Alkari> Exactly!
[05:01.09] <@Alkari> When you have to plan down to the last candle for a large household, and manage it when hubby was away ...
[05:01.13] <Evie> And there was some family planning even in the Middle Ages. It wasn't always as reliable as modern methods, but I remember reading an article some years ago about a study about family sizes in medieval France which seemed to indicate they had some means of preventing a pregnancy every year.
[05:01.16] <@Eyikl> I think that might be bleed-over from Renaissance noble ladies.
[05:01.19] <@Derynifank> Me raiders certainly seemed to be busy most of the time
[05:01.23] <@Demercia> yes I wonder about the Beguines Evie.  It might be because the Flemish towns had a more developed burgher life earlier and a greater degree of independence so women were freer to try these dangerous experiments
[05:02.12] <@Derynifank> "Meraude" again, hate ac
[05:02.26] <@Eyikl> WOuldn't they be able to limit pregnancies just by nursing longer?
[05:02.36] <@revanne> And if you ran out of groceries you couldn't just nip down to the nearest Tesco or Publix or whatever your local supermarket is.
[05:02.37] <Evie> I think women might have been more drawn to a lifestyle that allowed for the conveniences of convent life, but also allowed for one to leave it and marry again (or for the first time) if desired.
[05:02.41] <@Alkari> Doesn't work in practice!!
[05:02.41] <@drakensis> I'm not sure many people realise just how much convenience we have compared to even 50-100 years ago
[05:02.47] <@Demercia> though the raiders were kept pretty busy too in the Middle Ages
[05:02.58] <@Laurna> lol
[05:03.02] <@drakensis> (I probably don't have much idea myself, personally)
[05:03.07] <@Alkari> I have a friend who thought that - and ended up with 2 kids in 2 years
[05:03.08] <@Eyikl> Good to know. I won't depend on it then.
[05:03.29] <Evie> Nursing *can* but doesn't always delay ovuluation.
[05:03.40] <@Laurna> Nursing is not a form of birth control.  Nope.
[05:03.42] <@revanne> without going into too much information I tried natural birth control and have fifteen months between my first two children.
[05:03.44] <Evie> And of course since you don't know which category you'd fall into....
[05:04.07] <@Alkari> Only definite way out is saying NO!  :D
[05:04.15] <@Alkari> Hardly practical!!
[05:04.45] <Evie> There were herbal contraceptives, many of which are now extinct, but there is one sort popular during Roman times that seems to have actually had some effectiveness...which in term might be WHY it's now extinct!
[05:05.16] <Evie> In turn, not in term. Freudian slip? LOL!
[05:05.25] <@Alkari> I am sure there were all sorts of herbal and other remedies / preventatives
[05:06.12] <@Laurna> lots and lots of Vitimen A,  that reduces the effectiveness of Folic acid.
[05:06.13] <@Alkari> But I wonder how much information about them is not available because they were handed down in person, never written down for various reasons - including the Church
[05:06.13] <@Eyikl> And people poking their insides with pointy things. And sometimes bleeding to death.
[05:06.51] <@Demercia> sadly im going to bail out, need to be up early in the morning.  Looking forward to catching up with the log over breakfast.   Good to catch up with you, catch you in March.
[05:06.52] <@KK> Alas, still happens today.
[05:06.56] <@Laurna> Folic acid is necessary in the first weeks of pregnacy.
[05:06.59] <@Alkari> If the Chruch believes that the pupose of marriage IS for chilren, and that it was a woman's duty to have them, then you would't be publishing books about how NOT to have kids
[05:07.12] <@Eyikl> Goodnight Demericia.
[05:07.16] * Derynifank (Derynifank@OWIRCN-dc339139.hr.cox.net) Quit (Quit: ++http://www.kiwiirc.com/,, - A hand crafted IRC client)
[05:07.16] <Evie> Or drinking tisanes known to induce miscarriage, while hoping the dosage wasn't sufficient to act as a poison to the mother also
[05:07.18] <@Alkari> Nigh Demercia
[05:07.25] <@Laurna> Goo d night Demercia
[05:08.03] <@KK> Night, Demercia.
[05:08.04] <@The_Bee> nighters, Demercia
[05:08.12] <@drakensis> in one of my stories a character caused a furore by writing a book of advice on 1) how to have fun without it leading to children and 2) how to do so with good chances of having children
[05:08.17] <@Alkari> It also makes you wonder how many supposed ' witches'  were actually women with this spedcial women's knowledge,chich was anathema to men
[05:08.24] <@drakensis> got attacked by both sides, naturally
[05:08.38] <@Alkari>  * which was ...
[05:08.46] <Evie> With infant mortality being what it was, though, I suspect women who wanted families tried to have as many as they felt they safely could in hopes most or at least some would survive the dangerous childhood years
[05:08.50] * Demercia (~Demercia@OWIRCN-8d5487f9.clients.kiwiirc.com) Quit (Quit: ++http://www.kiwiirc.com/,, - A hand crafted IRC client)
[05:09.08] <@drakensis> and possibly started younger than was wise
[05:09.13] <@Alkari> True - so you balanced out your hope to live hrough it all, with your hope to have a big family
[05:10.20] <@Laurna> Hense, you trusted your faith to see you through.
[05:10.32] <Evie> Luke is now awake, but still attempting to hold my hand while I type and thus impeding my ability to do so
[05:10.44] * JudyWard (~181b3bb6@OWIRCN-1bdd9d77.org) has joined channel #deryni_destinations
[05:10.50] <Evie> Hi Judy
[05:10.52] <@Eyikl> hi JudyWard
[05:10.55] <@Laurna> Hi Judy
[05:11.00] <JudyWard> Hi, everyone! I've had my puppy fix!
[05:11.02] <@Alkari> Hi Judy
[05:11.19] <@The_Bee> Hi Judy
[05:11.20] <JudyWard> Hi, Alkari! I've been enjoying your story!
[05:11.20] <@KK> Puppy Bowl was good?
[05:11.41] <@revanne> Certainly in England - though I think it was different in mainland Europe - witch burning didn't happen until the 16th and 17th centuries and goes along with the beginnings of the professionalisation of medicine although that isn't of course to say that there was a direct link.
[05:11.53] <JudyWard> Well, my friend's 2 puppies were good.
[05:11.58] <~bynw> hi JudyWard
[05:12.00] <@revanne> Hi Judy.
[05:12.06] <JudyWard> Hi, y'all!
[05:12.06] * Derynifank (~Derynifank@OWIRCN-8d5487f9.clients.kiwiirc.com) has joined channel #deryni_destinations
[05:12.17] <JudyWard> Hi, DF
[05:12.25] * bynw sets mode +oo Derynifank JudyWard for #deryni_destinations
[05:13.21] <@Derynifank> This is a little  weird and disjointed tonight
[05:13.32] <@JudyWard> Talking about witch burnings?
[05:13.34] <@Derynifank> Hi Judyward
[05:13.45] <Evie> More weird and disjointed than is usual for us? :-D
[05:13.47] <@Derynifank> No chat
[05:13.51] <Evie> I mean, that's saying something!
[05:14.14] <@Laurna> KK question, is Meara a little bit Welsh, scotish, or irish  or all those mixed?
[05:14.37] <@JudyWard> I'm still eating my tuna on rye from Jason's. The only way I could make it in time for some of the chat.
[05:14.55] <@KK> More Welsh, I think.  It was a long time ago, when I was forming the Deryni world.
[05:15.04] <@Derynifank> Glad you made it
[05:15.33] <@JudyWard> Me, too. So the Mearans are sort of Welsh?
[05:15.34] <@Laurna> Thanks  I was thinking of it's Independence. and was wondering.
[05:16.10] <@revanne> Sorry folks, I'm going to bale out too. Only got about an hour's sleep last night with two much adrenaline before a very busy day. Fantastic to chat tonight, thanks for showing up early. Alkari I love your stories.
[05:16.14] <@revanne> Night all.
[05:16.19] <@JudyWard> Were the Welsh hard to fit into the UK?
[05:16.26] <@JudyWard> Bye Revanne!
[05:16.31] <Evie> Goodnight, revanne
[05:16.32] <@Eyikl> goodnight revanne.
[05:16.33] <@Laurna> Good Night revanne. see you in Droghera
[05:16.37] <@Derynifank> I always thought of them as having some Irish too
[05:16.38] <@drakensis> night revanne
[05:16.38] <@revanne> LOL
[05:17.07] <@Derynifank> Nite Revanne
[05:17.12] <@JudyWard> The game is coming right along, isn't it. If they can just get going.
[05:17.21] <@KK> I think I sort of abandoned the Welsh parallel as I got into the world-building.  I hadn't been to Waes when I wrote the first book, and discovered that my personal biases ran more to the Scottish.
[05:17.35] <@KK> Hadn't been to Ireland, either.
[05:17.40] <Evie> We all needed a breather, but we're up and running again now.  Well, up and sitting at least. :-D
[05:17.59] <@Laurna> Up and eating meat pies
[05:18.05] <@Alkari> So you just blended them all together KK!
[05:18.14] <@Derynifank> That sounds good
[05:18.30] <@drakensis> lots of different groups of celts. all jammed up on the coast by the Byzantium and then the northerners later
[05:18.34] <@revanne> Judy, I know some folk from north Wales who even now get very heated if Prince Charles is called Prince of Wales - "The last Prince of Wales is Llewelyn!" - the fact that he died in 1284 is neither here nor there.
[05:18.38] <@The_Bee> About sex being only for procreation: Didn't early Christians expect the end of the world to happen in their lifetime, so no need for children?  IIRC never mention children in relation to marriage; his main argument for marrying was. "It is better to marry than to burn."
[05:18.39] * Evie inserts Wales, Scotland, and Ireland into a Magic Bullet, blends, and pours them over Meara
[05:18.50] <@Eyikl> THough I'd also thought the Scottish were the mountain people Dhugal came from.
[05:19.14] <@revanne> As a Brit Evie you are giving me nightmares.
[05:19.33] * revanne pulls self together and leaves chat.
[05:19.36] * revanne (revanne@OWIRCN-6cb75694.dyn.plus.net) has left #deryni_destinations
[05:19.39] <@KK> LOL!
[05:19.41] <Evie> LOL!
[05:19.44] <~bynw> lol
[05:19.47] <@Laurna> Cassan is Scotland in my mind
[05:20.10] <@Alkari> I'd much prefer a fantasy workd to have elements of different places, rather than be an exact parallel - that way, the story has resonance without people being able to nitpick about "this wasn't what happened in (insert place)"
[05:20.12] <@JudyWard> LOL Revanne
[05:20.27] <@KK> Yes, Laurna!
[05:20.29] <Evie> I tend to think of the Borderers as being Scots-like, maybe with some Irish mixed in, though I think of the Connait as more Irish.
[05:20.42] <Evie> I agree, Alkari
[05:20.42] <@drakensis> some aspects of scotland seem applicable to cassan/meara/kierney but others more towards Kheldour/eastmarch
[05:20.49] <@Eyikl> I thought that Siant Paul or someone convinced themotherwise within the first century, Bee.
[05:20.53] <@drakensis> but then scotland itself is very complex
[05:21.04] <@The_Bee> The name "Meara" sound Irish-ish to me.
[05:21.06] <@JudyWard> Yes, Cassan always seemed to be Scots.
[05:21.21] <@drakensis> lines have likely blurred over the centuries
[05:21.21] <Evie> Which is why I'm also fine with Bremagne being Sort-of-Spain, Sort-of-France, and Andalon being Sort-of-Moorish-Spain but Not Exactly, etc.
[05:21.29] <@Laurna> Cassan and Kheldour
[05:21.53] <@Alkari> I am also in the Game of Thrones fandom, and get cross with people who try to draw exact parallels with the Wars of the Roses, for that reason
[05:22.03] <@The_Bee> Didn't Paul express the wish that everyone coud be celibate like him?
[05:22.22] <@Eyikl> Fair point Alkari. Though AUs always add some difference, even from our world.
[05:22.22] <@Alkari> Poor Paul - how was his church going to grow with no babies?!!!
[05:23.02] <@The_Bee> as I said--they expected the End of Days to happen soon.
[05:23.10] <@JudyWard> So Paul wanted everyone to be celibate?
[05:23.15] <@Derynifank> Actually I've read sources that said Paul didn'T really like women
[05:23.19] <@Eyikl> Converting ALL the infidels?
[05:23.24] <@Alkari> Paul always seemed slightly unworldly
[05:23.52] <@Alkari> My favourite is Thomas, who was the first one to ask for PROOF.
[05:24.05] <Evie> For a man who allegedly didn't like women, declaring women as equal heirs in Christ was extremely liberating in a society in which women were considered second-class citizens!
[05:24.05] <@JudyWard> Then he moved to Missouri
[05:24.24] <@The_Bee> But he okayed marriage because he realized that not everyone could do celibacy.
[05:24.34] <@Eyikl> ANd built a giant arch..
[05:24.42] <Evie> Paul gets a lot of bad press mostly based on misunderstanding the cultural context for some of his passages
[05:24.45] <@JudyWard> LOL!
[05:25.01] <@Alkari> More likely he realised that preaching celibacy would not go down very well with the general populace
[05:25.13] <@Derynifank> Isn't  faith about accepting  some things without  proof
[05:25.13] <@The_Bee> agreed
[05:25.31] <@JudyWard> Wouldn't get far demanding everyone give up sex
[05:25.49] <@drakensis> likely not
[05:26.00] <@The_Bee> And blind faith is accepting things in the face of proof to the contrary.
[05:26.08] <@Eyikl> Maybe he didn't think of it as faith, if it also functioned as science and government.
[05:26.08] <@JudyWard> And here we are 2000 yrs later...still waiting.
[05:26.08] <Evie> His point with promoting celibacy was that a single lifestyle was more conducive to being able to travel and spread the Gospel quickly, which was less likely to be possible if one were married with children. It wasn't that he thought marriage was wrong; he actually says the marriage bed is holy.
[05:27.19] <Evie> So yes, he thought singleness/celibacy was ideal, but not for its own sake.
[05:27.34] <@Alkari> "b;ind faith" is right
[05:27.34] <@The_Bee> Saint Peter was married; Jesus cured Peter;s MIL of something.
[05:27.39] <@Eyikl> SOunds like he didn't expect everyone to follow his ideas; if everyone was traveling pass right by each other.
[05:28.01] <@JudyWard> I think several of the apostles were married.
[05:28.24] <@Alkari> If everyone had relied on blind faith, we wouldn't be here typing on PCs and iPads. etc
[05:28.27] <Evie> It wasn't meant to be a one-size-fits-all directive, especially since a lot of the early Church founders were married.
[05:28.38] <@JudyWard> The married ones would have just said, "Stay here woman & I'll be back someday."
[05:28.50] <@The_Bee> They should have been. Back then you were expected to marry in your teens.
[05:29.17] <@Alkari> Marriage was actually the expected situation - which is why some people say it would have been more likely for writers of the time to comment on those people who weren't married
[05:30.00] <Evie> I'm not so sure of that; it was faith in an orderly world designed by an orderly Creator that inspired a lot of early scientists, so I think the Scientific Revolution would still have taken place. After all, lots of things were invented pre-modernism.  :-)
[05:30.11] <@The_Bee> It doesn't make sense to me that Jesus was single; he was in his late 20s when he began his preaching.
[05:30.17] <@Alkari> That is even one of the arguments for suggesting that Jesus would have bene married - because until he was 30 or so, he lived a perfectly normal Jewish life!
[05:30.29] <Evie> So why a lack of faith would result in higher tech, I have no clue. :-D
[05:30.32] <@Alkari> Jinx Bee!!
[05:30.37] <@Derynifank> Married priests with families might be able to better relate to the problems their  parishioners faced
[05:30.50] * jemler (jemler@OWIRCN-54654211.oh.comcast.net) has joined channel #deryni_destinations
[05:30.58] <jemler> hi folks
[05:31.00] <@The_Bee> Hi Jemler
[05:31.05] <@drakensis> hi jemler
[05:31.08] <@Alkari> which is one of the strong argument today against celibacy
[05:31.09] <@JudyWard> That's why Episcopal priests marry, or one of the reasons.
[05:31.12] <Evie> Hi Jemler
[05:31.16] <jemler> i forgot early chat.
[05:31.17] <@JudyWard> Hi, Jemler
[05:31.20] <@Derynifank> Hi Jemler
[05:31.24] <@Eyikl> THat's what the Rabbis argue, DerynifanK
[05:31.24] <Evie> Well, you found us. :-D
[05:31.29] <@Eyikl> hi Jemler
[05:31.50] <jemler> where is DR?
[05:31.59] <@Eyikl> sick
[05:32.05] <@KK> But married priests with families would have needed support, since the nman of the family couldn't go out and work.  That's been one of the arguments against a married priesthood, though Orthodox priests seem to manage well enough.
[05:32.17] <jemler> Alkari! long time.
[05:32.17] <@The_Bee> DR is sleeping. Tired
[05:32.20] <@KK> It ws a property thing.
[05:32.33] <Evie> Married priest were allowed in the early Church until around the 900s, IIRC.  Somewhere between 700 and 900s, at any rate.
[05:32.59] <@The_Bee> When did priestly celibacy become mandatory?
[05:33.13] * bynw sets mode +o jemler for #deryni_destinations
[05:33.17] <~bynw> hi jemler
[05:33.41] * Derynifank (~Derynifank@OWIRCN-8d5487f9.clients.kiwiirc.com) Quit (Quit: ++http://www.kiwiirc.com/,, - A hand crafted IRC client)
[05:33.46] <@jemler> thanks bynw. was feelinf left out.
[05:34.03] <@jemler> caught between chat and superbowl.
[05:34.07] <@drakensis> somewhere around 10th or 11th century I think The_Bee
[05:34.08] <@Eyikl> So an unmarried priest survived on the kindness of strangers and his church, but they wouldn't have been able to support his family, KK?
[05:34.16] <@JudyWard> Only in commercials for me
[05:34.22] <Evie> I'm thinking Pope Gregory I (not so sure on that end of history) pushed for it, but not sure it was mandatory everywhere until after him.
[05:34.47] <@Alkari> Hi jemler!!
[05:34.52] <@drakensis> I think one of William the Conquerer's uncles or great uncles was a bishop and also a married count
[05:34.58] * Derynifank (~Derynifank@OWIRCN-8d5487f9.clients.kiwiirc.com) has joined channel #deryni_destinations
[05:35.11] <@jemler> wb dfk
[05:35.13] * bynw sets mode +o Derynifank for #deryni_destinations
[05:35.25] <@JudyWard> Since it was a popular dumping ground for 2nd, 3rd & bastard sons, probably the parents & church didn't want them reproducing.
[05:35.25] <@The_Bee> In Peter Tremayne's Fidelma novels, set in the 700s, the move to ban priestly marriages is often a plot element.
[05:35.32] <Evie> One of the problems that led to it was that, like any other father in medieval society, married priest were passing the "tools of their trade" down to their sons to follow in their footsteps, but some of those sons didn't have a vocation to the priesthood
[05:35.37] <@Alkari> Wasn't part of the thinking as reagrds celibacy a strategy to ensure the church got lots of money and inheritances?
[05:36.35] <@KK> It was asking a lot to even support the priest--and still is.  Any idea what the CofE pays its priests?  A friend of ours was having to dump thousands into his household to support his family--and they got reduced or free tuition at the local CofE school.  He finally moved back to the States and took a more lucrative parish out in California.
[05:37.33] <@JudyWard> You'd think the church would do better by them.
[05:37.34] <~bynw> actually not being married is a violation on 1 Timothy 3 for qualifications for a Bishop
[05:37.38] <@jemler> brb. dinner. pot roast.
[05:37.48] <@KK> brb
[05:38.08] <@Eyikl> But didn't people often send their children off to apprenticeships with other people, Evie?
[05:38.12] <@JudyWard> I'm going to go run take another bite of my tuna.
[05:39.22] <Evie> Actually my church is considered a mission church because it is not completely self-supporting. It's small and can't quite afford it yet, so the cathedral downtown helps to support us and gives a subsidy to help us pay the rector's salary.
[05:39.37] <@The_Bee> "Lord, keep our preacher poor and humble.  On second thought, just keep him humble; we'll keep him poor."
[05:39.49] <Evie> Yes, that was one form of education, Eyikl
[05:40.24] <Evie> LOL, yes Bee!
[05:40.45] <Evie> Though not for lack of wanting to provide a livable salary!
[05:41.06] <@KK> back
[05:41.09] <@Alkari> LOL @ Bee
[05:42.13] <@Eyikl> So couldn't priest's children who weren't of the mindset for the church be trained for something else? Though I suppose the priests might see that as a step down socially.
[05:43.05] <~bynw> Eagles first to score. Got a Field Goal. 3/0
[05:43.26] <@Derynifank> Boys in particular  were fostered to other noble households as pages and squires to learn to be knights before they were knighted at age 18, The boarding schools system in England  seems like it might have been an outgrowth of that system
[05:43.29] <Evie> They could have, in theory, but a society with primogeniture also tends to consider firstborn sons as heirs to all one's belongings, which would lead to conflicts of what belongings and land were properly the heir's and properly the Church's
[05:44.24] <@Eyikl> AH, yeah, that would be a nightmare.
[05:44.39] <@JudyWard> The UK Royal Family just did away with the male inheritance rule.
[05:44.40] <Evie> So that wouldn't eliminate the problem, even if the son grew up to be, say, a goldsmith. In fact, it could prove to be a conflict of interests. What if the goldsmith with no interest in being a priest decided to melt down the Church's Communion chalice and paten to make wares to sell?
[05:45.21] <@Alkari> I am sure the Chruch courts would have dealt with that!!
[05:45.25] <@JudyWard> I think they had some fairly tough laws about stealing from the church then.
[05:45.28] <@Eyikl> Loudly
[05:45.43] <Evie> They did!  But sadly, they dealt with it by eventually enforcing celibacy.
[05:45.45] <@Alkari> Don';t forget it was church courts that largely adjudicated on inheritance and estate matters!
[05:46.11] <@The_Bee> But with Charles, William and George in line, we're not likely to see another Queen Regnant in our lifetimes.
[05:46.13] <@Eyikl> RIght. WIth no jury.
[05:46.17] <~bynw> i think there were a large number of reasons why the Roman Catholic Church did the no married priests rules.
[05:46.34] <@JudyWard> No, probably not another QR in our lifetimes at least.
[05:46.59] <Evie> No, it would take a tragedy for there to be another Queen Regnant in our lifetimes, since that would mean Charles, William, and George all dying young enough for Charlotte to become Queen.
[05:47.03] <@Alkari> LOL Bee - and the funny thing is, Princess Anne is by all accounts the hardest working Royal after the Queen!!
[05:47.10] <@Eyikl> Especially considering how long Queen Elizabeth has been alive.
[05:47.30] <@KK> Yeah, they've got the long life genes.
[05:47.34] <@Alkari> She just stays out of the limelight, gets down to business and does things
[05:47.42] <@The_Bee> Anne is now bumped ahead of her younger brothers.
[05:47.48] <@JudyWard> The men may not all live that long, but PP is hanging in there & Charles will be 70 soon.
[05:47.57] <@KK> No.  The change in law is not retroactive.
[05:48.25] <@Alkari> I cannot see Charles ever abdicating and allowing things to go direct to Wiliam
[05:48.41] <@JudyWard> Well, and Charlotte wasn't first born anyway. They just made a girl first born equal to a boy first born.
[05:48.45] <@The_Bee> no matter. She's still pretty far down the line.
[05:48.57] <@KK> I doubt he's do that.  Unless, perhaps, his health were failing by the time the Queen passes.
[05:49.08] <Evie> Yes, it would require George dying with no heirs for Charlotte to inherit
[05:49.15] <@Alkari> He seems pretty healthy to me!!
[05:49.32] <@Alkari> all the Royals seem to be pretty robust
[05:49.44] <@Alkari> even though they obviously do get the best of medical care
[05:49.50] <@JudyWard> Charles has waited too long to abdicate. He wants to sit on the throne.
[05:50.11] <@drakensis> or at least has spent most of 7 decades being firmly told it's his duty
[05:50.12] <@JudyWard> Yes, they have some good genes in that family.
[05:50.13] <@The_Bee> Any bets on whether the coming baby #3 will be a boy or a girl?
[05:50.34] <Evie> It will most likely be one or the other
[05:50.44] <@The_Bee> LOL yes!
[05:50.45] <@KK> Well, it likely will be one or the other.  ;-)
[05:50.55] <@JudyWard> I'll go for a boy. The males in that line seem to throw a lot of boys.
[05:50.58] <@KK> Evie, great mines....
[05:51.01] <@KK> minds
[05:51.16] <@KK> Andrew didn't.
[05:51.19] <@jemler> like mine?
[05:51.33] <@JudyWard> True, he had 2 girls.
[05:51.54] <@JudyWard> And QEII's dad only sired girls.
[05:52.19] <@Alkari> I hope for a girl
[05:52.23] <@The_Bee> How many grandkids does Queen Elizabeth II have?
[05:52.31] <@KK> Many.
[05:52.40] <@Alkari> four
[05:52.49] <@JudyWard> Did Anne have 2 or 3 kids?
[05:53.03] <@drakensis> 2
[05:53.09] <@drakensis> total of 8 grandchildren
[05:53.12] <@KK> Two from Charles, two from Anne, two from Andrew, two from Edward.
[05:53.18] <@Alkari> No, more than that - WIlliam and Harry, 2 for Anne, 2 for ANdrew and I think Edward had 2
[05:53.21] <Evie> It's more than four, surely!  All of her children have at least two.
[05:53.25] <@Alkari> So eight all told
[05:53.25] <@The_Bee> I think one grandchild is named Zora, or something like that.
[05:53.29] <@drakensis> Zara
[05:53.29] <@JudyWard> Charles had 2, OK Anne had 2, Andy had 2 & Eddie has 1, I think.
[05:53.35] <@drakensis> Eddie has 2 as well
[05:53.38] <@Alkari> Zara Phillips - Anne's daughter
[05:53.38] <@drakensis> Louise and James
[05:54.00] <@JudyWard> Edward stays out of the limelight.
[05:54.09] <@Alkari> The Olympic rider, like her mother, and now an accomplished horse trainer in her own right
[05:54.14] <@JudyWard> Drat! I'm missing some good commercials.
[05:54.16] <Evie> And some of those grandchildren have children also
[05:54.18] <@jemler> get the fish ready. since QE2 is the head of the church, doesn't that make her the high priestess?
[05:54.49] <@Alkari> I think Zara has one kid already - seen at Badminton Horse trials following Mum around!!
[05:54.56] <@KK> No, it makes her Head of the CHurch of England.  Anointed like a priest, but not a priest.
[05:55.08] <@drakensis> Zara has 1 child, her brother has 2 children
[05:55.08] <@JudyWard> Right.
[05:55.17] <@Eyikl> And suddenly horses become really important in the Anglican church...
[05:55.18] <@KK> Zara is expecting her second.  Lost one in between.
[05:55.26] <@Alkari> Ah, right
[05:55.33] <@Alkari> Good luck to her
[05:55.38] <@JudyWard> So that's 3 great grands, & Wills has 2 1/2.
[05:56.00] <Evie> LOL!  How about 2 plus one under construction?
[05:56.11] <@JudyWard> One in the oven!
[05:56.14] <@Alkari> 2.5
[05:56.21] <@Alkari> Nice and statistical!!
[05:56.28] <@drakensis> 5 and 2 halves
[05:56.33] <@The_Bee> I wonder there the royal women get the hats they wear for public occasions like weddings.  Some chapeaux have been pretty outlandish.
[05:56.36] <~bynw> super bowl is 3/3
[05:56.52] <Evie> I'm sure most if not all are bespoke
[05:57.01] <@JudyWard> I think I read there were several suppliers of "fascinators."
[05:57.06] <@KK> I suspect they are.
[05:57.07] <@Alkari> Beatrice and eugeneie - those hats looked like Teletubbies left overs
[05:57.10] <@Derynifank> Camilla really wears some outlandish  hats
[05:57.23] <@KK> But Camiolla has the Big Hair to wear them well.
[05:57.27] <@Eyikl> Maybe they trade hats with the people who go to the Kentucky Derby, Bee. They all seem to wear silly hats.
[05:57.35] <@Alkari> Yes.  And they are age appropriate for her too'
[05:57.53] <@The_Bee> Maybe they have a contest to see who can come up with the most memorable chapeau?
[05:58.02] <@JudyWard> I think they must!
[05:58.08] <@jemler> if NE had made a td plus extra point, and the quarter ended with that score, i would have won $1000.
[05:58.28] <@JudyWard> Oh, OK, NE got a TD
[05:58.41] <@KK> That one that Beatrice wore to William and Kate's wedding was the most outlandish.  She had previously worn one made of butterflies (fake) that was astonishing and wonderful.
[05:58.47] <~bynw> no touchdowns yet
[05:58.56] <@jemler> no, both teams have field goals.
[05:59.06] <@JudyWard> Oh, no? I thought he made it.
[05:59.12] <Evie> Yes, the wedding one looked like an old TV antenna
[05:59.15] <~bynw> Eagles just got a TD
[05:59.23] <@JudyWard> So 3 all.
[05:59.29] <@KK> A Teletubby, I've heard it called.
[05:59.45] <Evie> LOL, yeah
[05:59.52] <@JudyWard> Some of those things are pretty far out.
[06:00.02] <@Alkari> Did they even look in the mirror?
[06:00.18] <@KK> I liked the fascinator that Camilla wore for her wedding to Charales.
[06:00.46] <~bynw> extra point missed Eagles 9, New England 3
[06:00.47] <@Eyikl> Yes, and thought "I look Unique. People will mention my name for months."
[06:01.03] <@Laurna>  I am not much of a hat fan. but I do love the Fascinators.  I tried one on and my sister laughed at me.  BUt  i still like them.
[06:01.03] <@Alkari> It does make you wonder how many celebrities actually look in the mirror before accepting something or venturing out!
[06:01.03] <Evie> Try years. :-D
[06:01.13] <@KK> Ostrich feathers fanned across the top of the head like a headband. 
[06:01.24] <@Alkari> I * hate* fascinators - they look totally idiotic on me for the most part.
[06:01.38] <@drakensis> reminds me of an old newspaper cartoon. Opening of Parliament, Prince Phillip notes to the Queen "At least there's no chance this time of anyone having the same hat as you."
[06:01.50] <@Alkari> I look better in proper hats with fairly wide brims
[06:01.53] <Evie> I love both, but rarely have an opportunity to wear either
[06:02.08] <@JudyWard> Was watching commercials.
[06:02.17] <@KK> People in this country just don't, more
[06:02.20] <@JudyWard> The dogs are reminding me they haven't been fed yet.
[06:02.23] <@KK> smore's the pity.
[06:02.28] <@Derynifank> Any good ones?
[06:02.38] <@Alkari> I had to go to a Melbourne Cup lunch lat Novdember (our national day with a horse race!) and made my 0own fascinator as I wasn't going to sp0end zillions on one
[06:02.39] <@The_Bee> I once had a lovely pink wide-brimmed hat.
[06:03.06] <@Laurna> Are you passing around smores  :D  I'll take one.
[06:03.13] <@JudyWard> BRB
[06:03.17] <Evie> Diana made hats popular here for a short time, and I still have a couple I bought back in the day
[06:03.18] <@jemler> did it have a $1.98 price tag hanging from it?
[06:03.22] <@Alkari> So I bought a cheap $5 metal headband at the local hairdresser, and some clip on flowers
[06:04.06] <@Alkari> And I just clipped them on in a way that didn;t look totally ridiculous ... ánd off I went.   
[06:04.11] <@KK> People don't even wear hats to church or to weddings anymore.
[06:04.32] <@Alkari> Next year I can re-use the headband and just change flowers, or add feathers!!
[06:04.38] <@Laurna> Trying to brush Sugar on my lap. she keeps trying to scoot away.  Sugar is 18 lbs of Cavalier
[06:04.40] <@The_Bee> I wear hats to keep my head warm.
[06:04.44] <@KK> That's the way to go, I think.
[06:04.45] <@drakensis> can't say I wear dressy hats. just practical ones to keep the bald bit warm
[06:04.49] <@jemler> i'd wear a hat to church. no pants, but a hat. :)
[06:04.55] <@Alkari> II wear them for the sun
[06:05.03] <@Alkari> ALways keep sunhats handy
[06:05.17] <Evie> The last time I wore a hat was at the beach, I think
[06:05.22] <@KK> I don't like winter hats, because they give me hat-hair.
[06:05.43] <Evie> Oh wait, not counting my winter hat, which I have to wear to stay warm in below-freezing temps
[06:05.44] <@Alkari> My skin is sun-sensitive on chemo, so its sunscreen and sunhats
[06:06.12] <@The_Bee> I have a sort of feathered sombrero
[06:06.13] <Evie> Yes, definitely want to keep skin covered
[06:07.12] <@The_Bee> How much longer will you need chemo, Alkari?
[06:07.35] <@Alkari> Until my oncologist tells me to stop the tablets!!
[06:07.42] <@Eyikl> I had a hat for the last wedding I went to. I might have been eight.
[06:07.55] <@Alkari> Probably in July/August', after which I c an go on my nice holiday
[06:08.14] <@Alkari> She has allowed me to drop the dose slightly as from next cycle
[06:08.21] <Evie> Where are you heading to for your holiday?
[06:08.30] <@Alkari> Hawaii  :0
[06:08.34] <Evie> Ooh!
[06:08.39] <@The_Bee> When were you first diagnosed?
[06:08.41] <@Laurna> nice
[06:08.45] <@Eyikl> sounds nice. :)
[06:08.46] <@Derynifank> Lovely
[06:08.50] <@Alkari> FLy over, spend time there and cruise the islands, then cruise home the long way
[06:08.56] <@JudyWard> Hawaii! Nice!
[06:09.03] <@Laurna> really nice
[06:09.07] <Evie> That sounds like an awesome plan
[06:09.14] <@JudyWard> That sounds like a lot of fun.
[06:09.29] <@Alkari> As long as N Korea doesn't launch a missile, or that idiot post a wrong alert!!
[06:09.38] <Evie> LOL, true!
[06:09.42] <@The_Bee> I would love to visit the Kalalau Valley.
[06:09.49] <@Alkari> I think my travl insurance covers me for that.
[06:09.52] <@jemler> that idiot quit.
[06:10.27] <@Alkari> I have a week's cruise around the islands, and a week in honolulu itself
[06:10.27] <@Eyikl> ANd lives in fear of answering pop-up boxes, probably.
[06:10.39] <@The_Bee> He was fired, wasn't he?  Not the first time he confused drill and reality.
[06:10.44] <@Laurna> I always wanted to visit Australia. I met several aussies when I was in europe.
[06:11.23] <@Alkari> HOW can he do that?  I mean, surely in his position he should have had some sense!!
[06:11.28] <@The_Bee> My parents visited New Zealand and Australia after Mom's retirement.
[06:11.46] <@Alkari> I will go to NZ at some stage
[06:11.53] <@JudyWard> I might as well call it quits. Lou is bugging me about watching the ads.
[06:11.58] <@Alkari> But my next trip is northern Australia
[06:12.01] <@JudyWard> I have dog friends in NZ
[06:12.03] <Evie> Unfortunately "should have" and "does" don't always coincide.
[06:12.09] <@Eyikl> Goodnight JudyWard.
[06:12.15] <@jemler> nite judy
[06:12.16] <Evie> Goodnight, Judy
[06:12.21] <@Alkari> Night judy
[06:12.25] <@The_Bee> Wasn't Lord of the Rings filmed in New Zealand?
[06:12.25] <@JudyWard> Good night! Catch y'all next Sunday!
[06:12.31] <@The_Bee> bye judy
[06:12.45] <@Alkari> Yes Bee and they do lots of LOTR tourist trips
[06:12.47] * JudyWard (~181b3bb6@OWIRCN-1bdd9d77.org) Quit (Quit: CGI:IRC)
[06:12.59] <@Laurna> That would be fun
[06:13.16] <@jemler> i'd love to see the shire.
[06:13.21] <@KK> I think I need to sign off as well.  Two hours is about all I can take, after 3 1/2 hrs. on the phone to my sister.  And I want to talk to my DH.  See you guys next week at our usual time.
[06:13.23] <@Alkari> of course most of the sets are down, but the scenery is still there  :)
[06:13.33] <@Eyikl> Yes, Bee, and they left the hobbit house in place. The Worldcon bid committee uses them for advertising.
[06:13.34] <@Alkari> Bye K.  Nice to see you.
[06:13.36] <~bynw> have a good night KK
[06:13.41] <@Derynifank> Getting late  so I think I'll  check out. Everyone have a good week See you next Sunday
[06:13.44] <@jemler> nite kk
[06:13.46] <Evie> Goodnight, KK!
[06:13.53] <@The_Bee> bye KK.  Thanks for coming. Have a good week.
[06:13.53] <@KK> Those of you watching SuperBowl, enjoy.
[06:14.00] <@drakensis> night KK
[06:14.06] <@jemler> only if i win.
[06:14.07] <@Eyikl> Goodnight KK. Hava a good week!
[06:14.11] * KK steps onto her Portal, waves goodnight, and disappears in a shower of green sparkles.
[06:14.23] <@KK> Nights, all.
[06:14.24] * Derynifank (~Derynifank@OWIRCN-8d5487f9.clients.kiwiirc.com) Quit (Quit: ++http://www.kiwiirc.com/,, - A hand crafted IRC client)
[06:14.32] <@Alkari> I might get going too - almost time for my aquarobics class
[06:14.40] <Evie> Have fun!
[06:14.45] <@drakensis> good night
[06:14.49] <@Eyikl> goodnight Alkari
[06:14.51] <@Laurna> Wonderful to chat with you Alkari
[06:14.53] * drakensis (~drakensis@5A6A32.DFA9C1.822DB1.6C8448) Quit (Quit: Nettalk6 - ++www.ntalk.de,,)
[06:14.53] <@Alkari> Cheers all, hope to make chat a little more often this year!
[06:14.54] * The_Bee is buzzing off too. Nighters all!
[06:15.00] * Alkari (Mibbit@OWIRCN-5f85e0b2.internode.on.net) Quit (Quit: ++http://www.mibbit.com,, ajax IRC Client)
[06:15.04] <Evie> Goodnight, all our departing folk!
[06:15.10] * The_Bee (~The_Bee@OWIRCN-8d5487f9.clients.kiwiirc.com) Quit (Quit: )
[06:15.16] * KK (~473e1dd9@OWIRCN-1bdd9d77.org) Quit (Quit: CGI:IRC)
"In necessariis unitas, in non-necessariis libertas, in utrisque caritas."

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