Author Topic: KK Chat -- 12 November 2017  (Read 723 times)

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Offline DesertRose

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KK Chat -- 12 November 2017
« on: November 12, 2017, 05:59:11 pm »
Nov 12 17:15:32 *   KK has joined
Nov 12 17:15:38 <Jemler>   hi kk
Nov 12 17:15:39 <The_Bee>   Hi KK!
Nov 12 17:15:41 <KK>   Hello, all.
Nov 12 17:15:42 <JudyWard>   Hi, KK, how are you?
Nov 12 17:15:45 <Revanne>   Hi KEITH
Nov 12 17:15:49 <DesertRose>   Hi Kk
Nov 12 17:15:51 <DesertRose>   KK
Nov 12 17:15:52 <Derynifank>   Hi KK
Nov 12 17:15:54 <Revanne>   Kenny
Nov 12 17:15:56 <DesertRose>   Wow, Revanne
Nov 12 17:16:05 <DesertRose>   Your autocorrect is something else tonight!
Nov 12 17:16:15 <Revanne>   Help
Nov 12 17:16:16 <Jemler>   revanne, can you turn the autocorrect off? :)
Nov 12 17:16:17 <JudyWard>   It has got a bad case of correct tonight!
Nov 12 17:16:39 <DesertRose>   What OS is it?  Apple, Android, something else?
Nov 12 17:16:46 <Revanne>   Not that I know- hi KK
Nov 12 17:17:11 <Jemler>   what app are you using?
Nov 12 17:17:44 <KK>   How's everyone?
Nov 12 17:17:54 <DesertRose>   Tired but okay.  You?
Nov 12 17:17:56 <JudyWard>   Good here
Nov 12 17:18:08 <Revanne>   Android - I need to go into settings. Afk for a bit.
Nov 12 17:18:08 <bynw>   hi KK
Nov 12 17:18:13 *   bynw is good
Nov 12 17:18:18 <Jemler>   i'm ok. i think revanne might be afraid to answer! :)
Nov 12 17:18:19 <The_Bee>   prettty well.  I had a pleasant trip to Walden Pond last week.
Nov 12 17:18:27 <KK>   Good.  Got the bedbug issue resolved, DR?
Nov 12 17:18:30 <DesertRose>   No
Nov 12 17:19:09 <KK>   No?!
Nov 12 17:19:20 <DesertRose>   I spoke to an intake attorney with Legal Aid on Thursday, and she said she is referring my case to their fair housing specialist attorney; she gave me the attorney's name and contact information, so I mailed her a massive package of documentation of everything that has happened.
Nov 12 17:19:33 <The_Bee>   management still being stubborn?
Nov 12 17:19:42 <Revanne>   :-( for bedbugs
Nov 12 17:20:03 <KK>   Meanwhile, are you still stuck in the bedbug-infested apartment?
Nov 12 17:20:08 <JudyWard>   Hope it gets done for you soon.
Nov 12 17:20:12 <DesertRose>   She mentioned that in order to eradicate the infestation, they should have moved my furniture to the center of each room and sealed all my smaller belongings (clothing, books, etc.), which they have not done.
Nov 12 17:20:23 <DesertRose>   They've basically just dropped fumigation bombs a few times.
Nov 12 17:20:23 <Revanne>   Typing very carefully.
Nov 12 17:21:09 <Jemler>   h u n t  a n d  p e c k  ,  l i k e  i  d o.
Nov 12 17:21:15 <KK>   I doubt that will do it.  I understand that they're notoriously hard to eradicate.
Nov 12 17:21:18 <DesertRose>   No, I'm at my parents' house, which is not a situation that can carry on much longer if for no other reason than that I'm sleeping on a daybed that was never meant to be anyone's every-night mattress, and my spine and joints verily doth protest mightily.
Nov 12 17:21:37 <The_Bee>   OUCH!
Nov 12 17:21:48 <Jemler>   oucheth.
Nov 12 17:21:53 <DesertRose>   And also, because Carys is apparently territorial despite her generally chill temperament, she has to stay in the bedroom because if we let her out, she'll start fights with Merlin and PJ.
Nov 12 17:22:18 *   DesertRose half-heartedly flings a beaver's tail at Jemler.
Nov 12 17:22:28 <Revanne>   We had bedbugs last year and they were a nightmare -you need people you know what they are doing to deal with them.
Nov 12 17:22:45 <DesertRose>   I think Carys' behavior is probably due to her having been well into adulthood before she was spayed.
Nov 12 17:22:51 <Jemler>   but with a little grin, right? :)
Nov 12 17:22:57 <DesertRose>   She also seems to be a one-cat household kind of cat.
Nov 12 17:22:59 <DesertRose>   Yes.
Nov 12 17:23:04 <DesertRose>   That was cute.
Nov 12 17:23:13 <JudyWard>   Definitely not a social cat.
Nov 12 17:23:17 <DesertRose>   PJ and Merlin were respectively altered as kittens.
Nov 12 17:23:26 <DesertRose>   Oh, she's social as she can be with PEOPLE.
Nov 12 17:23:40 <KK>   I think feales are harder to integrate with other cats than altered males are.
Nov 12 17:23:49 <KK>   females
Nov 12 17:24:02 <DesertRose>   She absolutely despises dogs; she goes from 0-hissy fit in about 0.2 seconds if she encounters a dog (which happens only at the vet, thankfully).
Nov 12 17:24:10 <JudyWard>   They aren't called queens for nothing!
Nov 12 17:24:10 <DesertRose>   And evidently she doesn't play well with her peers, either.
Nov 12 17:24:14 <Revanne>   One person cats can find socialising hard.
Nov 12 17:24:24 <DesertRose>   All three of these critters are altered.
Nov 12 17:24:39 <Revanne>   True Judyward.
Nov 12 17:24:41 <DesertRose>   It's just that PJ and Merlin both came to my parents' household as kittens, so they were altered before they reached kitty puberty.
Nov 12 17:24:50 <Jemler>   that would put ME into a hisssssy fit.
Nov 12 17:25:10 <DesertRose>   Carys was a stray for some unknown length of time and was not spayed until I adopted her, and the vet who performed the procedure said he estimated her to be around age two.
Nov 12 17:25:19 <DesertRose>   That was one year, eleven months ago, approximately.
Nov 12 17:25:22 <DesertRose>   So now she's around four.
Nov 12 17:25:27 <bynw>   my kitties are adapting well since i moved at the end of oct to a new apt complex
Nov 12 17:25:42 <DesertRose>   Carys is pretty chill as long as she can be with me.
Nov 12 17:25:51 <JudyWard>   Our outside kitties have dwindled to 2.
Nov 12 17:26:10 <DesertRose>   When we evacuated from Irma to my friends' place in Richmond, she was really pretty calm about the whole thing despite a 16-hour drive there and a 17-hour drive back.
Nov 12 17:26:35 <DesertRose>   But Richmond friends have no pets as yet, so she didn't have to worry about other animals really.
Nov 12 17:27:41 <DesertRose>   And she had three humans adoring her at every opportunity.  (Friend's Boyfriend is allergic to cats, so he didn't get too close, but his lady and the other mutual friend who did the driving were all, "Let's go pet the kitty and throw catnip toys for her to chase," which Carys just loved.
Nov 12 17:28:13 <JudyWard>   Center of attention is where she wants to be.
Nov 12 17:28:18 <Revanne>   Catnip makes our two kitties go psycho.
Nov 12 17:28:32 <DesertRose>   Center of human attention.
Nov 12 17:28:42 <The_Bee>   Melantha ignores catnip, neighbor cat Mickey adores it.
Nov 12 17:28:43 <DesertRose>   But yes.  She's a Velcro kitty.
Nov 12 17:28:59 <Jemler>   center of the universe. carys has your friends trained well.
Nov 12 17:29:16 <bynw>   kagi likes catnip and goes batsh*t crazy and andi doesn't care one bit about it
Nov 12 17:29:32 <JudyWard>   They says it doesn't affect all cats.
Nov 12 17:29:46 <The_Bee>   genetic, I hear
Nov 12 17:29:49 <DesertRose>   In any case, I'm going to request transfer to another property entirely, which is going to entail moving yet again, and it's probably going to entail bagging up a lot of things (such as *sob* my books!) and storing them sealed for about two years so that the bedbug life cycle burns out.
Nov 12 17:29:49 <KK>   It's a genetic thing, tetting turned on by catnip--or not.
Nov 12 17:29:51 <DesertRose>   Yes.
Nov 12 17:30:05 <Revanne>   Mine sat staring at things no-one could see and attacked each other.
Nov 12 17:30:28 <DesertRose>   Carys loves it.  It sort of amplifies her playfulness without muting the cuddly quality.
Nov 12 17:30:36 <DesertRose>   House sprites, Revanne.
Nov 12 17:30:44 <Revanne>   Oh no re books!
Nov 12 17:30:46 <KK>   That sucks.  A shame no one noticed the bedbugs until after they'd already moved you into the new place.
Nov 12 17:31:07 <DesertRose>   I'm honestly not sure it wasn't deliberate retaliation by the assistant manager.
Nov 12 17:31:13 <DesertRose>   That might be paranoia.
Nov 12 17:31:21 <DesertRose>   But the head manager was out of town (and he
Nov 12 17:31:32 <DesertRose>   he's a jerk and not particularly competent either)
Nov 12 17:31:35 <Derynifank>   Wow dr. I don'the know how I could do without my books for 2 years, Guess it's off to the library
Nov 12 17:31:42 <JudyWard>   You know what they say: Just because you're paranoid doesn't mean someone isn't out to get you.
Nov 12 17:31:58 <Revanne>   At the very least it was negligence to the point of criminality.
Nov 12 17:32:01 <DesertRose>   And I got the assistant manager in trouble with the president of the housing authority because the assistant mgr was awful to me.
Nov 12 17:33:09 <KK>   He earned it.  Not to worry--or feel guilty.
Nov 12 17:33:12 <bynw>   its funny though with my cats and catnip since they are litter mates
Nov 12 17:33:25 <Derynifank>   Nothing is too bad for that as st manager  Maybe you could send him some bedbugs
Nov 12 17:33:39 <DesertRose>   I overheard the president discussing the conversation he'd had with the assistant, and apparently she tried to defend herself by saying I'd sworn at her (which, I did swear, but I didn't call her names or threaten her or anything, and anybody with half a gram of sense/listening comprehension would have realized I was panicking by the FIRST thing I'd said, before I started swearing).
Nov 12 17:34:07 <DesertRose>   The president apparently replied to her "[DR] swore at me," with "Did she have a reason to swear?"
Nov 12 17:34:17 <Derynifank>   Asdistant manager
Nov 12 17:34:24 <JudyWard>   Yes, you DID have a reason!
Nov 12 17:34:46 <The_Bee>   good for the president
Nov 12 17:35:04 <Revanne>   She shouldn't be in her job with an attitude like that.
Nov 12 17:35:10 <Derynifank>   Lots of reasons to swear !
Nov 12 17:35:22 <DesertRose>   Yeah, but she probably got at least a verbal dressing-down by the president, possibly also by the relevant senior vice president, since she (Sr. VP) told me to stop apologizing for having gotten so upset because the situation should never have reached the point it reached nor should it have gone on so long.
Nov 12 17:35:49 <JudyWard>   That's so true!
Nov 12 17:35:53 <DesertRose>   So I'm not sure that she didn't know that the unit was infested and put me there to retaliate because I got her in trouble with the top of the ladder.
Nov 12 17:36:00 <The_Bee>   glad someone in authority is on your side
Nov 12 17:36:04 <DesertRose>   Yeah.
Nov 12 17:36:07 <Derynifank>   That is so true but how are they going to fix it?
Nov 12 17:36:29 <Revanne>   I'm afraid that sounds plausible to me.
Nov 12 17:36:43 <Derynifank>   Yeah, me too
Nov 12 17:37:10 <DesertRose>   But I'm going to request to transfer to another property, and I'm going to request compensation for moving, storage, and pest control expenses (which will likely have to be paid by my parents because I am flat broke).
Nov 12 17:37:24 <DesertRose>   And for having to change my address on my driver's license AGAIN.
Nov 12 17:37:29 <Derynifank>   Your assistant  manager isn'the related to Loris by any chance?
Nov 12 17:37:35 <JudyWard>   You should get that. The least they can do is make it better.
Nov 12 17:37:46 <DesertRose>   It's $25 to replace a license, even if the reason for the replacement is address change.
Nov 12 17:38:03 <DesertRose>   Hopefully, but if they want to play hardball, that's why I got in touch with Legal Aid.
Nov 12 17:38:20 <Derynifank>   Good for you!
Nov 12 17:39:00 <DesertRose>   I told my therapist on Friday, right before I posted the package of documentation to the Legal Aid fair housing specialist, I am the daughter of a world-class executive secretary who started teaching me clerical/office skills when I was about eight years old, and I went on to get a degree in English.
Nov 12 17:39:17 <DesertRose>   You want to start a paperwork war with me?!  Bring it.
Nov 12 17:39:33 <Derynifank>   Go get me gurl!
Nov 12 17:39:49 <Revanne>   Good for you.
Nov 12 17:40:16 <Revanne>   I hope they can rehouse you fairly quickly.
Nov 12 17:40:34 <Derynifank>   Auto correct  strikes again Go getem  girl!!
Nov 12 17:40:44 <DesertRose>   I really try not to be a jerk, but these people have run me straight out of goodwill and all non-jerk behavior.
Nov 12 17:40:55 <DesertRose>   Hopefully.
Nov 12 17:41:03 <DesertRose>   It'll probably be a priority, honestly.
Nov 12 17:41:10 <JudyWard>   They deserve your ire.
Nov 12 17:41:22 <DesertRose>   Because they already know I have precisely zero qualms about causing a very loud public scene.
Nov 12 17:41:28 <Derynifank>   They are the ones who are the here's world class
Nov 12 17:41:52 <DesertRose>   Weird benefit to a lifetime of mental illness.  When you've been involuntarily committed as many times as I have, the ship of public spectacle has long since sailed.
Nov 12 17:41:53 <Derynifank>   I hate auto correct  😠
Nov 12 17:42:02 <Revanne>   Sadly sometimes it's the only way.
Nov 12 17:42:25 <Revanne>   Public scenes that is.
Nov 12 17:42:36 <Derynifank>   They are the jerKS
Nov 12 17:42:48 <DesertRose>   In retrospect, though, I should have asked them to move me to another property entirely rather than trying to stay at the building in the first place, but, once again, that ship has sailed.
Nov 12 17:42:49 <Revanne>   Not auto correct.
Nov 12 17:43:55 <Revanne>   I don't think you should blame yourself for lack of second sight.
Nov 12 17:43:58 <DesertRose>   (BTW, the reason for all the involuntary commitments has been self-injurious/suicidal behavior.  I've never been a danger to anyone but myself.)
Nov 12 17:44:35 <DesertRose>   Well, no, but moving is a pain regardless, and I probably should have snapped up the chance to get away from the manager and assistant manager at the current building.
Nov 12 17:45:09 <KK>   Did they offer you space in a different complex?
Nov 12 17:45:40 <DesertRose>   The previous assistant was really nice, and the previous manager was at least much more competent than the current one, even if she (previous mgr) had a way of talking that sounded either insincerely saccharine and/or like she was addressing pre-school aged children, which rode up my spine.
Nov 12 17:45:48 <DesertRose>   I'd take her back in a minute over these clowns, though.
Nov 12 17:46:26 <DesertRose>   I'm going to file the transfer request paperwork tomorrow, and my therapist has already said she'd write a letter stating that staying at the current property would be detrimental to my mental health.
Nov 12 17:46:34 <Revanne>   Yes. Competence covers a multitude of sins.
Nov 12 17:46:52 <DesertRose>   (and possibly my physical health, since I don't know how badly I react to bedbug bites, but I'm allergic to a number of insect bites/stings)
Nov 12 17:47:01 <DesertRose>   But that's not my therapist's wheelhouse, so to speak.
Nov 12 17:47:45 <Derynifank>   No one should have to go through what you are going through
Nov 12 17:48:25 <DesertRose>   As a friend of mine who is a Presbyterian minister and a US Navy chaplain said, "You can be an incompetent leader but a nice person, and people will help you because you're nice, or you can be competent but an ass, and people will put up with you because you get the job done."
Nov 12 17:48:35 <The_Bee>   Have you reacted badly to bedbug bites?
Nov 12 17:48:36 <DesertRose>   "Nobody will put up with someone who is both incompetent AND an ass for long."
Nov 12 17:48:53 <DesertRose>   I don't know.  I have fortunately not been bitten as far as I've seen.
Nov 12 17:49:11 <DesertRose>   But ant and mosquito bites raise big itchy welts on me, and I carry an Epi-Pen because of my reaction to bee/wasp stings.
Nov 12 17:49:49 <DesertRose>   And my system is being so touchy lately that I don't particularly trust it not to overreact to bedbug bites, even if normally the reaction wouldn't be any worse than an ant or mosquito bite.
Nov 12 17:50:14 <DesertRose>   I mean, I have the Epi-Pen, but I'd really rather not stab myself in the thigh with the damn thing if I don't have to.
Nov 12 17:50:26 <Derynifank>   Stress usually makes things worse
Nov 12 17:50:30 <DesertRose>   Yes
Nov 12 17:51:21 <DesertRose>   And that's assuming that I didn't get bitten and go into anaphylactic shock in my sleep.
Nov 12 17:51:26 <DesertRose>   In which case, RIP me.
Nov 12 17:52:01 <Revanne>   Yikes!! NOOh
Nov 12 17:52:13 <DesertRose>   I'm not particularly keen either.  ;)
Nov 12 17:52:25 <DesertRose>   But if your airway closes in your sleep. . .
Nov 12 17:52:52 <DesertRose>   Anaphylactic shock can happen incredibly fast; a sleeping person might not wake up before it was too late.
Nov 12 17:52:52 <JudyWard>   Bad news if that happens!
Nov 12 17:52:55 <Derynifank>   That would be a really delayed reaction so hopefully not likely
Nov 12 17:53:14 <DesertRose>   No, I meant if I were sleeping in the apartment and the bugs came and bit me in my sleep.
Nov 12 17:53:20 <bynw>   dont really want to think about that someone loosing the ability to breath in their sleep (especially this time of year)
Nov 12 17:53:29 <DesertRose>   Yeah.
Nov 12 17:53:31 <DesertRose>   Sorry, bynw.
Nov 12 17:53:39 <DesertRose>   I forgot it was close to the anniversary.
Nov 12 17:53:46 <Derynifank>   You don"the have them where you are do you ?
Nov 12 17:54:05 <bynw>   my life that could have been (its not the anniversary ... her bday is just at the beginning of Dec)
Nov 12 17:54:09 <The_Bee>   Do you get bugs year-round in Florida?
Nov 12 17:54:15 <JudyWard>   Any place can get them now. You can bring them home from a hotel.
Nov 12 17:54:26 <DesertRose>   Not at my parents' house, at least not so far.  I've been trying to be very careful any time I need to go into the apartment to do something or check on something.
Nov 12 17:54:33 <JudyWard>   Bugs year round in most of the South.
Nov 12 17:54:34 <DesertRose>   Mostly, yes, Bee.
Nov 12 17:54:40 <DesertRose>   It's too hot here for them to die much.
Nov 12 17:54:49 <KK>   I find myself closing bags I wouldn't have bothered with before, and putting stuff up off the floor.  So far, so good.
Nov 12 17:54:59 <DesertRose>   We pray for a few good freezes every winter so that the mosquitos aren't so bad in the really hot months.
Nov 12 17:55:18 <Derynifank>   Have to find something  to feed my husbabd, BRB I hope
Nov 12 17:55:24 <DesertRose>   Okay, Derynifank
Nov 12 17:55:30 <DesertRose>   Food is important.
Nov 12 17:55:32 <JudyWard>   If we get a week of freezing it will kill off some of the fleas & ticks.
Nov 12 17:55:43 <DesertRose>   Yes.  And those are a bother and a half too.
Nov 12 17:56:07 <JudyWard>   We haven't had enough freezing days in a row for a long time now.
Nov 12 17:56:27 <bynw>   we just had a good week of below freezing at night
Nov 12 17:56:39 <DesertRose>   Yeah, well, you're well north of JudyWard and me.  :P
Nov 12 17:56:48 <JudyWard>   BRB. Have to go feed the dogs who have been begging for an hour due to the time change.
Nov 12 17:56:58 <DesertRose>   Aw, poor starving neglected puppies.  :D
Nov 12 17:57:02 <JudyWard>   Yes, well north.
Nov 12 17:57:14 <JudyWard>   BRB
Nov 12 17:57:28 <DesertRose>   (I'm kidding.  I always say that about begging critters who are clearly in no danger of starvation nor any state of neglect.)
Nov 12 17:57:28 <Revanne>   I'm wondering whether Deryni powers include bug zapping and am thinking yes.
Nov 12 17:57:44 <bynw>   that's what they think
Nov 12 17:57:48 <DesertRose>   Hmm.  Cast a ward of No Bugs around the place.
Nov 12 17:58:12 <DesertRose>   Which would have to be a powerful ward in Florida because yikes.
Nov 12 17:58:23 <DesertRose>   The coastal Southeast in general.
Nov 12 17:58:52 *   Derynifank has quit (Quit: - A hand crafted IRC client)
Nov 12 17:59:15 <DesertRose>   BRB, my glass has gone empty.
Nov 12 17:59:34 *   Derynifank ( has joined
Nov 12 17:59:44 <The_Bee>   rehi DFK
Nov 12 17:59:51 <Revanne>   Registered
Nov 12 18:00:09 <Revanne>   Rehi
Nov 12 18:00:31 <KK>   I think Deryni could persuade bugs that they don't want to be in an area.
Nov 12 18:01:01 <bynw>   and that makes it official :)
Nov 12 18:01:23 <JudyWard>   WB DFK
Nov 12 18:01:24 <Revanne>   Sort of bug exclusion zone. Sounds good.
Nov 12 18:01:25 <Derynifank>   It's being weird
Nov 12 18:01:45 <The_Bee>   Yes.  If a Deryni can control birds and animals, why not bugs?
Nov 12 18:01:46 <Derynifank>   My connection
Nov 12 18:01:51 <JudyWard>   Dogs are fed & beef stew is nearing ready for us humans.
Nov 12 18:01:59 <Revanne>   Yum
Nov 12 18:02:09 <KK>   Of course, that could be a betrayal in persecution times.  If you don
Nov 12 18:02:16 <Derynifank>   Sounds great
Nov 12 18:02:20 <KK>   't have bugs, there must be a rason.
Nov 12 18:02:25 <KK>   reason
Nov 12 18:02:29 <JudyWard>   You could just complain of them like everyone else.
Nov 12 18:02:50 <JudyWard>   All those clothes could be hiding lots of bug bites.
Nov 12 18:03:01 <KK>   That's true.  And you could chalk it up to hygiene.
Nov 12 18:03:13 <Derynifank>   I would think they would just want you to get rid of their bugs
Nov 12 18:03:29 <JudyWard>   Bed bugs were normal occurrence in medieval times, weren't they?
Nov 12 18:04:47 <Revanne>   Given how hard they are to get rid of I imagine they must have been.
Nov 12 18:04:52 <JudyWard>   Anybody ever read
Nov 12 18:04:59 <KK>   Nighty-night, sleep tight.  Don't let the bed bugs bite.  The tight part I think refers to the cords that held the mattress rigid (and off the floor), which would have made it more difficult for them to get into bed with a careless sleeper.
Nov 12 18:04:59 <JudyWard>   The Dragon and The George?
Nov 12 18:05:39 <Jemler>   did you get that from the Big Bang Theory?
Nov 12 18:05:45 <The_Bee>   No, but I think I've heard of it.
Nov 12 18:05:58 <Revanne>   Although of course houses weren't so warm so maybe they didn't  breed so readily.
Nov 12 18:06:25 <JudyWard>   It's funny. Hero gets dumped into a dragon body & is glad that he can't get fleas, like the Knight who is his companion on a quest.
Nov 12 18:06:57 <Revanne>   Sounds good Judyward
Nov 12 18:07:16 <JudyWard>   I think here we could get rid of bed bugs by just shutting the house up in summer with no A/C
Nov 12 18:07:42 <JudyWard>   Don't know if you can still find it. Even Lou liked it & he doesn't like fantasy.
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Nov 12 18:08:36 <The_Bee>   Summer with no A/C might get rid of human pests too.
Nov 12 18:08:42 *   Derynifank ( has joined
Nov 12 18:08:52 <JudyWard>   It would me, but then, the pioneers put up with it.
Nov 12 18:08:54 <Revanne>   Brain is switching off so am heading for zzz with hopefully no bugs although I am itching all over now.
Nov 12 18:08:56 <The_Bee>   rehi DFK
Nov 12 18:09:05 <JudyWard>   WB again DFK
Nov 12 18:09:15 <Derynifank>   Rehi all
Nov 12 18:09:19 <The_Bee>   nighters, Revanne.  Thanks for coming.
Nov 12 18:09:31 <bynw>   night Revanne
Nov 12 18:09:33 <JudyWard>   ''Night Revanne
Nov 12 18:09:39 <JudyWard>   Have a good week!
Nov 12 18:09:46 <Derynifank>   Night Revanne
Nov 12 18:09:46 <Revanne>   Night, thanks for early chat.
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Nov 12 18:12:18 <Derynifank>   It has gotten  very quiet
Nov 12 18:12:26 <JudyWard>   KK, I have a question: would Richenda & Alaric have had to wait a long & frustrating year to get married after Bran died?
Nov 12 18:15:59 <JudyWard>   Hello...(Hello, hello, hello..._
Nov 12 18:16:44 <bynw>   thats a good question JudyWard
Nov 12 18:16:56 <KK>   I don't know that they'd have to wait an entire year, but some delay would be necessary for propriety's sake.
Nov 12 18:17:05 <The_Bee>   According to Codex, Bran died in July 1121, and richenda and alaric married in May 1122.
Nov 12 18:17:22 <bynw>   not quite a year
Nov 12 18:17:37 <JudyWard>   So maybe they did give it a year, just for the sake of propriety. Would really have been frustrating for them.
Nov 12 18:17:49 <KK>   There you go.  I think that was Rob's date, but it works for me.
Nov 12 18:17:51 <JudyWard>   Almost a year
Nov 12 18:18:40 <KK>   I think the custom was to wait long enough to be sure she wasn't carrying Bran's baby.
Nov 12 18:18:53 <JudyWard>   Oh, that would make sense.
Nov 12 18:19:07 <KK>   I'm sure that was Rob's rationale.
Nov 12 18:19:24 <bynw>   sounds reasonable
Nov 12 18:19:36 <JudyWard>   Plus wait for nice weather, although it might not have been a lavish affair all things considered.
Nov 12 18:19:44 <Jemler>   i seem to remember something about mourning for a year. i read it in a story abour marco polo.
Nov 12 18:20:24 <JudyWard>   Yes, that's what I was thinking. Propriety said wait a year so at least people THOUGHT you missed the old spouse.
Nov 12 18:21:07 <JudyWard>   Of course that might just have been the South before the war.
Nov 12 18:21:14 <DesertRose>   Probably more like, "We wouldn't want to cast doubt on the paternity of any offspring born after the death of Late Husband."
Nov 12 18:21:26 <The_Bee>   I have a question about Caeriesse.  In Deryni Magic, you say that people in northern Gwynnedd  in the 4th century clammed descent from people who fled the sinking of Caeriesse.  But you also say that Caeriesse sank in the 5th century.  That would work if it happened in BCrather than AD.
Nov 12 18:21:30 <JudyWard>   Yes, probably so.
Nov 12 18:21:39 <DesertRose>   Well, the 19th C. mourning customs were incredibly complex (and annoying, to my way of thinking).
Nov 12 18:22:24 <JudyWard>   Yes they were unnecessarily strict to my thinking.
Nov 12 18:22:26 <DesertRose>   You wore black, head to toe, including a veil over your head, for the entire first year, then for the second year you could add gray or purple accents to your black dresses, and then the third year, you could wear black, gray, or dark purple but nothing more festive/bright than that.
Nov 12 18:22:37 <The_Bee>   In Puritan Massachusetts, widows or widowers sometimes remarried almost immediately.
Nov 12 18:22:37 <Jemler>   it might also be that they didn't want people to consider adultery, and proving that alaric never stepped beyond the limits of curtesy.
Nov 12 18:22:41 <DesertRose>   Which, A: WHY!? and B: Only the wealthy would have had time for that nonsense.
Nov 12 18:22:52 <DesertRose>   That too, Jemler, re: Alaric and Richenda.
Nov 12 18:23:10 <KK>   I think it was as much an inheritanvce thing as anything else.  But Richenda already had her husband's heir, so that wouldn't have been as strong a factor.  Also, Alaric was Deryni, so they could probably quietly do whatever they wanted. 
Nov 12 18:23:18 <JudyWard>   True, DR. Poor people needed someone to put food on the table.
Nov 12 18:23:35 <DesertRose>   And apparently in some places women would wear the gray/dark purple for the rest of their lives if they never remarried.
Nov 12 18:23:53 <The_Bee>   Queen Victoria?
Nov 12 18:23:56 <DesertRose>   Note the wardrobe of the Dowager Countess of Grantham on Downton Abbey.
Nov 12 18:23:56 <JudyWard>   Oooo! A steamy love affair
Nov 12 18:24:20 <DesertRose>   An awful lot of her clothes, particularly in the first series or two, are gray or dark purple or some combination thereof.
Nov 12 18:24:32 <DesertRose>   But her husband has clearly been gone for some time.
Nov 12 18:24:36 <JudyWard>   Queen Victoria never stopped mourning for her Albert.
Nov 12 18:24:43 <DesertRose>   Nope
Nov 12 18:24:49 <DesertRose>   She sure didn't.
Nov 12 18:25:13 <DesertRose>   And some of that may have been that, as a queen regnant, her behavior had to be utterly beyond reproach.
Nov 12 18:25:14 <JudyWard>   It was True Love for them.
Nov 12 18:25:19 <DesertRose>   But that too.
Nov 12 18:25:24 <Derynifank>   That was a little excessive I think, wearing black for 40 years
Nov 12 18:25:26 <The_Bee>   "The Widow of Windsor"
Nov 12 18:25:47 <DesertRose>   Well, black had been a dressy color since the Regency years.
Nov 12 18:25:50 <JudyWard>   But so romantic; she never got over her love.
Nov 12 18:25:55 <Jemler>   i want to watcg victoria and abdul.
Nov 12 18:26:10 <JudyWard>   I want to see that one, too.
Nov 12 18:26:15 <DesertRose>   Beau Brummel popularized what was basically a black tux.
Nov 12 18:26:23 <DesertRose>   Men's evening attire in black, anyway.
Nov 12 18:26:33 <JudyWard>   The real one, not the group? <G>
Nov 12 18:26:39 <DesertRose>   So it wasn't always an inappropriate color.
Nov 12 18:26:49 <Derynifank>   Very interesting movie, not  entirely  what I expected
Nov 12 18:26:55 <JudyWard>   In China, white is for mourning
Nov 12 18:27:09 <KK>   Victoria had enough heirs that she wouldn't have had to worry about propriety, if she'd fallen in love again.  Other than for that, though, why would she remarry?  She apparently had strong sexual appetites, but she didn't like being pregnant, so that might have put the brakes on for a second marriage. a
Nov 12 18:27:10 <DesertRose>   Laura Ingalls Wilder wore a black wool dress to her wedding because it was the dressiest garment she owned.
Nov 12 18:27:24 <Jemler>   DR! i thought basic black went tith everything?
Nov 12 18:27:29 <DesertRose>   True.  And pregnancy is still a roll of the dice, but it was even more so then.
Nov 12 18:27:49 <Jemler>   or a roll in the hay. :)
Nov 12 18:27:50 <DesertRose>   No, what I meant was that black didn't per se mean mourning; it certainly COULD, but it didn't always.
Nov 12 18:27:56 <JudyWard>   Maybe Deryni can control getting pregnant or not.
Nov 12 18:28:04 <DesertRose>   Well, the roll in the hay comes before the roll of the dice.  :P
Nov 12 18:29:01 <DesertRose>   Yes, JudyWard, and I believe they tend toward red/red brocade for wedding attire in China.
Nov 12 18:29:13 <DesertRose>   Which I think is cool, but holy cats would that have been a scandal to the Victorians!
Nov 12 18:29:16 <JudyWard>   Yes, red is a lucky color in China.
Nov 12 18:29:24 <KK>   I'd think that would require really fine control, and I doubt all Deryni had that.  Also, they didn't have that much knowledge of where babies actually came from..
Nov 12 18:29:56 <JudyWard>   So they may have had a very frustrating 10 months.  How delicious!
Nov 12 18:30:02 <The_Bee>   They knew it took a man and a woman, didn't they?
Nov 12 18:30:20 <JudyWard>   I hope so! And they knew you could have a baby without being married.
Nov 12 18:30:35 <DesertRose>   They knew sex makes babies, I'm pretty sure.
Nov 12 18:30:38 *   Jemler gasps
Nov 12 18:30:42 <JudyWard>   In the old west they had a saying, "wearing her apron high."
Nov 12 18:30:56 <DesertRose>   What they probably didn't know was the smaller-scale elements of conception.
Nov 12 18:31:13 <KK>   On the other hand, they could have had quite a spicy relationship without full-blown sex, until they could marry without scandal.  Or at least as without scandal as Deryni could be.
Nov 12 18:31:14 <JudyWard>   Right, Wouldn't know how that worked.
Nov 12 18:31:17 <DesertRose>   Or "in the family way."
Nov 12 18:31:45 <KK>   LOL, judyward.  I'd never heard that term, but it's apt.
Nov 12 18:32:00 <JudyWard>   True, some people wouldn't think well of them if they waited 10 yrs. and I bet they could have had some spicy fun when they could get away.
Nov 12 18:32:02 <DesertRose>   Yeah, and what happens behind closed doors (and bed curtains) stays behind closed doors so long as Richenda's waistline didn't mysteriously begin to broaden.
Nov 12 18:32:16 <The_Bee>   I've seen "apron high" in ballads.
Nov 12 18:32:29 <Jemler>   i doin't wanna know where her bloomers were! :)
Nov 12 18:32:47 <JudyWard>   Not where they were supposed to be! At least once or twice.
Nov 12 18:32:52 <DesertRose>   LOL
Nov 12 18:32:58 <DesertRose>   Or certainly not fully on her bum!
Nov 12 18:33:07 <DesertRose>   Okay.  I'mma shut up now.
Nov 12 18:33:09 <JudyWard>   Exactly!
Nov 12 18:33:25 <JudyWard>   Awww! but it was so much fun!
Nov 12 18:33:53 <DesertRose>   Yeah, but y'all are going to have me singing the Wenching songs soon if this line of discussion continues, and then I'll tarnish my halo beyond ALL help!  :D
Nov 12 18:34:15 *   DesertRose sings, "In Amsterdam there lived a maid, mark well what I do say. . ."
Nov 12 18:34:29 <JudyWard>   LOL! Do go on!
Nov 12 18:34:32 <DesertRose>   No.
Nov 12 18:34:45 <DesertRose>   Bynw has seniority.  He can smack me!
Nov 12 18:34:49 <Derynifank>   Awww, c'mon Dr
Nov 12 18:35:00 <JudyWard>   Scarboro Faire in Dallas (actually in Waxahachie) had a pair of girls who sang bawdy songs.
Nov 12 18:35:08 <The_Bee>   "And she was mistress of her trade..."
Nov 12 18:35:33 <KK>   Bloomers?  As far as I know, ladies didn't wear nether undergarments at that time.  Which meant that guarding one's virtue was somewhat more difficult, when a man could simply throw a womanls skirts over her head and have his way with her.
Nov 12 18:35:55 <DesertRose>;ttAROVIN.1;ttAROVIN.2.html
Nov 12 18:36:15 <DesertRose>   I think Jemler meant the Old Western ladies with their aprons high.
Nov 12 18:36:16 <JudyWard>   Yes, as Malcom did with what's-her-name.
Nov 12 18:36:29 <DesertRose>   Roisian?
Nov 12 18:36:38 <DesertRose>   Or are you thinking of Donal and Jessamy?
Nov 12 18:36:50 <JudyWard>   Oh, maybe not Malcolm. Yes, Donal & Jessamy.
Nov 12 18:37:25 <JudyWard>   And nothing is so much fun as sneaky sex.
Nov 12 18:38:24 <DesertRose>   Well, that DOES add an element of danger/adrenaline.  :D
Nov 12 18:39:22 <Derynifank>   Guess that's what Ithel did to Janniver
Nov 12 18:39:45 <DesertRose>   At an SCA event, probably about 12-13 years ago, I and several other ladies adopted (semi) temporary tavern wench personae for a pirate-themed event called Cutlasses and Corsairs.  (It's still held basically every year, although this year, I think it's being combined with Kingdom Art-Sci.)
Nov 12 18:40:09 <JudyWard>   OK, I've missed that or was he the rapist? I know she married (in a fan story) a good man eventually.
Nov 12 18:40:27 <DesertRose>   And we sang a bunch of songs by a group of three women who seem to be on hiatus but who used to make the Ren Faire circuit, called the Naughty Nymphs, plus a few more songs from a now-defunct folk group called the Ravens.
Nov 12 18:40:31 <Derynifank>   He was the rapist
Nov 12 18:40:48 <DesertRose>   No, she married Jatham, Kelson's former squire, at the beginning of KKB.
Nov 12 18:40:52 <DesertRose>   That's canon, not fanon.
Nov 12 18:40:54 <DesertRose>   :D
Nov 12 18:41:01 <The_Bee>   Ithel raped Janniver. She married one of Kelson's knights, I forget his name.
Nov 12 18:41:05 <DesertRose>   Jatham
Nov 12 18:41:16 <JudyWard>   I think the Naughty Nymphs might have been the girls at SF.
Nov 12 18:41:23 <Derynifank>   Ithel was the rapist, in TJX
Nov 12 18:41:38 <DesertRose>   Kelson created him Baron something or other, with the indication that Title Whatever might become an earldom in due time.
Nov 12 18:41:43 <JudyWard>   I've got to find the rest of my books.
Nov 12 18:42:06 <The_Bee>   TJX?  Remind me
Nov 12 18:42:07 <Derynifank>   Baron of Lil shame
Nov 12 18:42:19 <JudyWard>   Much as Donal did for Alaric's father. I can never think of names when I need them! Kenneth!
Nov 12 18:42:32 <DesertRose>   Might have been the Naughty Nymphs, JudyWard. I know Texas was part of their regular circuit when they were still active, but there are/were three of them, not two.
Nov 12 18:42:41 <DesertRose>   Kilshane.
Nov 12 18:42:46 <DesertRose>   That's Title Whatever.
Nov 12 18:42:54 <Derynifank>   I HATE auto correct .  Baron of Lil Shane
Nov 12 18:43:29 <Derynifank>   Itvwon'the let me write "Kilshane"
Nov 12 18:43:34 <JudyWard>   They had a bunch of hilarious songs. Loved their show.
Nov 12 18:43:37 <DesertRose>   Yes
Nov 12 18:43:55 <DesertRose>   I got to sing the limerick verse about the man with the ass and the verse about the broken bannister.
Nov 12 18:43:57 <JudyWard>   It's love/hate with auto correct.
Nov 12 18:44:10 <DesertRose>   At feast.
Nov 12 18:44:14 <JudyWard>   LOL! Bawdy songs are so much fun!
Nov 12 18:44:36 <Derynifank>   Supposed to be the King's Justice but you know who got me again
Nov 12 18:44:48 <DesertRose>   With a fairly buttoned-up crown at the time, so we wound up arranging for him to have a candle beside his place setting, and if he was offended, he'd extinguish the candle and we'd tone it down or knock it off entirely.
Nov 12 18:45:12 <DesertRose>   But all of the songs were heavy on innuendo and light on explicit content, so he never extinguished the candle.
Nov 12 18:45:19 <JudyWard>   Aw, spoil sport!
Nov 12 18:45:42 <JudyWard>   Yes, never actually spelled out but you knew exactly what they meant.
Nov 12 18:45:44 <DesertRose>   No, not a spoil sport.  He left it lit; we never offended him so we got to do all our bawdy songs and silly schtick.
Nov 12 18:46:00 <JudyWard>   Good!
Nov 12 18:46:30 <DesertRose>   Basically, the prevailing opinion was, if kids were old enough that the jokes didn't fly over their heads leaving them wondering why all the adults were laughing themselves sick, it was all good.
Nov 12 18:46:53 <DesertRose>   Because if they were old enough to get the jokes, their parents had probably already had a few chats with them about sexuality and procreation.
Nov 12 18:46:55 <JudyWard>   Midieval kids were pretty knowledgeable about sex.
Nov 12 18:46:59 <DesertRose>   True.
Nov 12 18:47:15 <DesertRose>   People having their own bedrooms is a development of well past the modern era.
Nov 12 18:47:33 <DesertRose>   But I meant kids at the SCA event, so modern kids in medieval clothes.  :D
Nov 12 18:47:43 <DesertRose>   *well into, not well past.
Nov 12 18:47:51 <JudyWard>   Yes, I sometimes wonder about pioneers with 9 kids in a one room cabin.
Nov 12 18:47:55 <DesertRose>   Good lord.  I don't have a TARDIS, except the lovely painted one my friend made for me.
Nov 12 18:48:57 <DesertRose>
Nov 12 18:48:59 <DesertRose>   This one
Nov 12 18:49:21 <JudyWard>   Nice!
Nov 12 18:49:41 <Derynifank>   Very nice
Nov 12 18:49:45 <The_Bee>   Were the various Dr. Whos different men, or one man in different bodies?
Nov 12 18:50:10 <Jemler>   Doctor! Doctor! Give me the news! I've got a bad case of loving Who! :)
Nov 12 18:50:10 <bynw>   one person in different bodies
Nov 12 18:50:16 <bynw>   lol Jemler
Nov 12 18:50:40 <The_Bee>   thanks, Bynw
Nov 12 18:51:08 *   DesertRose tosses a Four scarf at Jemler.
Nov 12 18:51:14 <JudyWard>   I'm going to have to go soon, even though we are having so much fun! Gotta go to the local chicken take out which had GREAT rolls.
Nov 12 18:51:43 <The_Bee>   Bye, Judy.  enjoy your chicken
Nov 12 18:51:56 <Jemler>   nite judy.
Nov 12 18:51:58 <The_Bee>   and rolls
Nov 12 18:52:00 <JudyWard>   Has great rolls. I don't like their chicken but the rolls & the fried okra a GREAT.
Nov 12 18:52:19 <DesertRose>   G'night, ud
Nov 12 18:52:20 <JudyWard>   Lou likes their rolls with stew or roast.
Nov 12 18:52:24 <DesertRose>   G'night, JudyWard
Nov 12 18:52:35 <JudyWard>   Everyone have a great week!!
Nov 12 18:52:35 <DesertRose>   My keyboard is starting to give up, I think.
Nov 12 18:52:38 <DesertRose>   You too!
Nov 12 18:52:43 <Jemler>   was evie here tonight?
Nov 12 18:52:45 <Derynifank>   It is getting  late so I will say goodnight too. Hope everyone  has a good week
Nov 12 18:52:54 *   JudyWard has quit (Quit: CGI:IRC)
Nov 12 18:52:58 <Derynifank>   No Evie tonight
Nov 12 18:53:05 <The_Bee>   bye, DFK.
Nov 12 18:53:13 <Jemler>   nite dfk
Nov 12 18:53:16 <DesertRose>   No, she has friends visiting from out of town.
Nov 12 18:53:16 <Derynifank>   Bye all
Nov 12 18:53:23 <DesertRose>   G'night, Derynifank
Nov 12 18:53:25 *   Derynifank has quit (Quit: - A hand crafted IRC client)
Nov 12 18:54:12 <KK>   I think it's time for me to go as well.  See you next week, same Bat Time, same Bat Station.
Nov 12 18:54:32 <Jemler>   ok kk. have fun.
Nov 12 18:54:34 *   KK steps onto her Portal, waves goodnight, and disappears in a shower of green sparkles.
Nov 12 18:54:40 <The_Bee>   or regular Bat Time
Nov 12 18:54:59 <KK>   Er, yes.  Regular Bat Time.  ;-)
Nov 12 18:55:08 <The_Bee>   nighters, KK. thanks for coming and good week.
Nov 12 18:55:13 <Jemler>   i'll go too. steak and baked potato.
Nov 12 18:55:13 *   KK has quit (Quit: CGI:IRC (EOF))
"If having a soul means being able to feel love, loyalty, and gratitude, then animals are better off than a lot of humans."

James Herriot (James Alfred "Alfie" Wight), when a human client asked him if animals have souls.  (I don't remember in which book the story originally appeared.)


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