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Offline Evie

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Re: Dice rolling
« Reply #15 on: November 28, 2017, 12:36:01 pm »
I've done the registration I think - do I understand that I don't need to roll the dice until the game dictates?

Yes, this is correct.  This game system is much more story-based than roll-based, so dice will likely only be used if there is some need to randomly determine an outcome, such as who manages to injure/kill whom in combat, or if you have succeeded in doing something like charming another person into doing something, bluffing your way through a situation, using a magical spell right (especially a new and unfamiliar one), etc.  I think in our scene writing, we can state we are attempting to do things of that sort, but we will need a dice roll to see if we actually succeed or not, and then subsequent scenes will reflect the results of that roll accordingly.  But having never played an RPG under quite these circumstances, that's more just a guess on my part. The closest thing I've done to this was a story-based RPG in Storium, and that's more or less how things got settled there, only depending on cards that were played rather than dice rolls.
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Offline revanne

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Re: Dice rolling
« Reply #16 on: December 18, 2017, 03:09:50 pm »
I've done a few rolls in advance. Obviously I need to use them in order but one was 5+5 and another was 6+5 - because both die were 5 or 6, can use the throw more than once? Or is that cheating ?  ;D
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Offline Laurna

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Re: Dice rolling
« Reply #17 on: January 27, 2018, 01:40:08 pm »
since this game is semi free form roleplaying. there will be times when dice rolling will be necessary, but not too often. most actions and results will simply be automatic. but in the following cases there will be the need to roll the bones:

   using any trait on another character played by a forum member
   any form of combat
   other issues as determined :)

and since this is a forum based game. we need a way to roll dice so here it is: https://dicelog.com/maildice for verification they can be all sent to zipperbro at deryni dot net

Bynw, can I have a clarification for when to roll dice.

Above it says roll when "using any trait on another character played by a forum member."
Does this mean that if we use a trait, such as Power for our selves, we do NOT have to roll?

Example 1) using Handfire or lighting a flame to the campfire or something that does not have to do with another character. I do NOT need to roll for these things. 

Example 2) What about Mind speech? A character is talking in their head and broadcasting it to another person. They are not doing anything to that other person.  So NO roll of the dice required? It would be up to the other person if they have their shields up or down to receive that speech. Yes?

Example 3) Raising and lowering our own shields. NO roll required. That should not require a dice roll and be at the character's discretion. The exception would be a psychic attack to break our shields; that would be combat and  would therefore require a dice roll.

Example 4) This one is trickier. What about using a trait on an NPC, a character not played by a forum member, like Truth Reading?  That should NOT require a roll. On the other hand, Truth Saying would be considered a combat move and would require a roll.

Thanks.
« Last Edit: January 27, 2018, 03:03:52 pm by Laurna »

Offline Bynw

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Re: Dice rolling
« Reply #18 on: January 27, 2018, 06:17:42 pm »
Bynw, can I have a clarification for when to roll dice.

Above it says roll when "using any trait on another character played by a forum member."
Does this mean that if we use a trait, such as Power for our selves, we do NOT have to roll?

Absolutely I can.

It really depends on what one is attempting to do that determines a die roll. Even if it is on yourself it might require one.

Example 1) using Handfire or lighting a flame to the campfire or something that does not have to do with another character. I do NOT need to roll for these things. 

Generally speaking, no you would need to roll to create a ball of Handfire or create flame to light a campfire or candle. However if another Deryni wanted to take control of the Handfire you created. Then yes you would have to roll then and so would the other person wanting control.

Example 2) What about Mind speech? A character is talking in their head and broadcasting it to another person. They are not doing anything to that other person.  So NO roll of the dice required? It would be up to the other person if they have their shields up or down to receive that speech. Yes?
On this one. The Sender of the Mind Speech generally wouldn't have to roll, unless they wanted to force the communication on someone who is unwilling. And of course since Mind Speech is pretty much a broadcast, like radio, it can be picked up by others who are not the intended recipient. But that roll would have to be made by the other person of course.

Example 3) Raising and lowering our own shields. NO roll required. That should not require a dice roll and be at the character's discretion. The exception would be a psychic attack to break our shields; that would be combat and  would therefore require a dice roll.

Raising and lowering doesn't require a roll. That is totally up to the Deryni in question. Forcing them down would require rolls of course or trying to keep them up on an assault.

Example 4) This one is trickier. What about using a trait on an NPC, a character not played by a forum member, like Truth Reading?  That should NOT require a roll. On the other hand, Truth Saying would be considered a combat move and would require a roll.

Actually that would. Truth Reading is to determine if a lie is a lie and should actually always require a roll. It also requires asking the right questions. For example, you have captured a would-be assassin, you think that they are related to as specific individual. So you ask them, under a Truth-Reading, "Are you related to 'name of specific individual'?"
The would-be assassin answers back with: "No I am not related to 'name of specific individual'."

You make your roll for Truth Reading to see if he is lying or not ... and you get:
[18:12] <bynw> !roll 2d6
[18:12] <@derynibot> 6, 6 == 12
Made it with flying colors. The GM lets you know that the would-be assassin is not lying. He is telling the truth. However all evidence points to that not being true.

The reason Truth-Reading failed you, is because of the wrong question being asked. The would-be assassin is not related to the 'specific individual' because he IS the specific individual. One is not related to oneself technically. So it isn't a lie.

Truth Saying on the other hand. Now that is a form of Mind-Control as one is forcing someone to speak truthfully. So that would also always require a roll.


Offline Evie

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Re: Dice rolling
« Reply #19 on: January 27, 2018, 07:14:06 pm »
And of course since Mind Speech is pretty much a broadcast, like radio, it can be picked up by others who are not the intended recipient. But that roll would have to be made by the other person of course.


Wait, what?!  I thought Mind-Speech by definition requires focused (i.e., not random) projection of one's thoughts into a particular person (or a small group of individuals') mind(s), and therefore has the advantage of NOT being able to be picked up by random passers-by or even an enemy trying to overhear you, even if they are Deryni.  At least I can't remember anyone in the Deryni books ever picking up on Mind-Speech that wasn't directed towards them, although I guess I could imagine someone accidentally projecting Mind-Speech into the wrong mind if they were really sloppy with their focus, yet not so disrupted that they couldn't focus at all. (In game terms, maybe that might be the result of a Critical Fail?)  The only examples I can think of in the books of accidentally broadcasting to others was whenever a Deryni character involuntarily broadcasts a psychic cry of pain or fear, which comes across like a widespread broadcast to other Deryni in the room precisely because it's not a focused communication, it's an instinctive panic or visceral reaction that resonates to other telepaths in the vicinity.  But I wouldn't consider that the same as Mind-Speech, which by its very nature is (or at least appears always to be in the books, unless there are instances I am forgetting?) directly projected to a particular mind or minds. Otherwise, what advantage would there be in Mind-Speaking at all, if it could be overheard by the wrong person? One might as well just whisper instead and save the psychic energy it takes to telepathically project one's thoughts for more important things.
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Offline Bynw

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Re: Dice rolling
« Reply #20 on: January 27, 2018, 08:57:57 pm »
And of course since Mind Speech is pretty much a broadcast, like radio, it can be picked up by others who are not the intended recipient. But that roll would have to be made by the other person of course.


Wait, what?!  I thought Mind-Speech by definition requires focused (i.e., not random) projection of one's thoughts into a particular person (or a small group of individuals') mind(s), and therefore has the advantage of NOT being able to be picked up by random passers-by or even an enemy trying to overhear you, even if they are Deryni.  At least I can't remember anyone in the Deryni books ever picking up on Mind-Speech that wasn't directed towards them, although I guess I could imagine someone accidentally projecting Mind-Speech into the wrong mind if they were really sloppy with their focus, yet not so disrupted that they couldn't focus at all. (In game terms, maybe that might be the result of a Critical Fail?)  The only examples I can think of in the books of accidentally broadcasting to others was whenever a Deryni character involuntarily broadcasts a psychic cry of pain or fear, which comes across like a widespread broadcast to other Deryni in the room precisely because it's not a focused communication, it's an instinctive panic or visceral reaction that resonates to other telepaths in the vicinity.  But I wouldn't consider that the same as Mind-Speech, which by its very nature is (or at least appears always to be in the books, unless there are instances I am forgetting?) directly projected to a particular mind or minds. Otherwise, what advantage would there be in Mind-Speaking at all, if it could be overheard by the wrong person? One might as well just whisper instead and save the psychic energy it takes to telepathically project one's thoughts for more important things.

EEEK. guess I have to make a Save Test to dodge out of the way here.

Almost every incidence of Mind Speech we have seen in the Deryni books are done by Deryni in physical contact with one another or those using some sort of a device to focus the call to a specific mind or minds. The Camber Medallion that Alaric Morgan used with Lord Derry. And the large Shiral crystal that is used by the Camberian Council to call its members from across the 11 Kingdoms. And as we have seen, the greater the distance, the greater the difficulty.

In all of those instances, the communication is private. And this is generally the typical use of Mind-speech.

We also have the incident in Deryni Archives where the Camber children and Rhys called for help when the house was being robbed. This was a wide-band cry that was easily overheard by any Deryni in the area. As I believe one of the children said he thought he called All of the Deryni in the area to aid them.

Deryni Magic has this to say about the subject of Mind-Speech being overheard by others:
Quote
Indeed, if a potential receiver is predisposed to pick up telepathic communication, if he or she is "open" to such a contact, it is quite possible to “overhear” mind-speech intended for another. Because transmission across a distance requires a stronger and broader "band" of energy, spillage can occur, to be picked up by anyone in range and "listening" for it. Several characters display concern about psychic eavesdropping and often use physical contact to close the "leak" and prevent it. Morgan and Duncan are sitting close beside one another when they use mindspeech to communicate after being interrogated by Arilan and Cardiel at Dhassa, even though they do not yet even suspect that Arilan is Deryni. And Camber-Alister, to prevent being overheard by the assembled bishops, utilizes blatant formal contact with Joram, hands to temples, outwardly pretending a judicial probe of Joram's mind but at the same time communicating on hidden telepathic levels as well as open verbal ones, all the while cobbling together a forthcoming explanation for his audience that will extricate Joram from perjury yet still retain Camber's identity as Alister. It succeeds in that, though not precisely as Camber had planned. As so often happens, Camber has not foreseen all the ramifications. Still, it is a masterly piece of work and a good example of what can be done with mind-speech.




Offline DesertRose

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Re: Dice rolling
« Reply #21 on: January 27, 2018, 09:14:13 pm »
We also have the incident in Deryni Archives where the Camber children and Rhys called for help when the house was being robbed. This was a wide-band cry that was easily overheard by any Deryni in the area. As I believe one of the children said he thought he called All of the Deryni in the area to aid them.

Rhys himself said it.  Either Joram or Cathan said something about having Called Camber and the hunting party, and Rhys said that he'd also called when he was first injured; I believe the line was something like, "Them, and every Deryni for three counties."
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Offline Evie

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Re: Dice rolling
« Reply #22 on: January 27, 2018, 09:32:37 pm »
Ok. Deryni Magic makes it clearer, although I wasn't thinking about cases where people are deliberately calling for help. I was thinking more about cases like Duncan and Alaric being in the same room (or Dhugal and Kelson) silently communicating in a way not intended for others' hearing, which was sometimes done while in physical contact, but not always.
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Offline Bynw

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Re: Dice rolling
« Reply #23 on: January 27, 2018, 09:39:02 pm »
In those days there werent very many other Deryni around. But we are 30+ years into the future. A chance for more Deryni to be open. To have been trained. To have their powers rediscovered after being forgotten for so long.
« Last Edit: January 27, 2018, 09:52:18 pm by Bynw »

Offline Laurna

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Re: Dice rolling
« Reply #24 on: January 27, 2018, 10:40:28 pm »
Quote
Quote from: Laurna on January 27, 2018, 01:40:08 pm

    Example 2) What about Mind speech? A character is talking in their head and broadcasting it to another person. They are not doing anything to that other person.  So NO roll of the dice required? It would be up to the other person if they have their shields up or down to receive that speech. Yes?

Quote
Quote from: BYNW
On this one. The Sender of the Mind Speech generally wouldn't have to roll, unless they wanted to force the communication on someone who is unwilling. And of course since Mind Speech is pretty much a broadcast, like radio, it can be picked up by others who are not the intended recipient. But that roll would have to be made by the other person of course.

I don't think the actual conversation of Focused Mind Speech can be heard or understood by others.  I do believe that other Deryni outside the conversation, if their shields are open, can detect the magic that is being used. However, they can not hear the details of what is said.

One example where I am thinking of: is when Alaric is lying prostate on the cathedral floor during his re-infolding ceremony into the church, both he and Duncan use Mind Speech, they were not in physical contact with each other, yet they were using focused Mind Speech. They also were calling out to make contact with Derry who was far far away. Denis Arilan was standing very close. Denis detects Alaric using magic, but he can not hear the words Duncan and Alaric say to one another. I am certain that Arilan would have used all his powers to find out what was going on. But he couldn't discover it. He had to wait until the ritual was over before he confronted Alaric. Very upset he was too, at Alaric for using magic in the church and not knowing why.
« Last Edit: January 28, 2018, 03:10:11 am by Laurna »

Offline Laurna

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Re: Dice rolling
« Reply #25 on: January 27, 2018, 10:55:11 pm »
Bynw, can I have a clarification for when to roll dice

Example 1) using Handfire or lighting a flame to the campfire or something that does not have to do with another character. I do NOT need to roll for these things. 

Generally speaking, no you would need to roll to create a ball of Handfire or create flame to light a campfire or candle. However if another Deryni wanted to take control of the Handfire you created. Then yes you would have to roll then and so would the other person wanting control.

OK. So I must roll the dice  to create Handfire, (this is a Power Trait ability). If I fail, I should be able to roll again as a second attempt, roll again as a third attempt, and a fourth.  As long as I am not being attack and the characters around me don't start laughing in my face.
      "Hahah! Five times? It took you five tries to get that light over your head? My seven year old daughter has better control of Handfire than you do. hahah!"

It should be like practice-makes-perfect; so lots of practice should be acceptable. (only the dice rolls never seem to improve with multiple rolls, At least not if I am rolling)
« Last Edit: January 27, 2018, 11:42:36 pm by Laurna »

Offline Evie

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Re: Dice rolling
« Reply #26 on: January 27, 2018, 11:03:55 pm »
Maybe I'm missing something. I read Bynw as saying you don't have to roll to create handfire (assuming you already know how), but you do need to roll if attempting to pass it on to someone else, and they would have to roll to successfully receive it.  So for instance, Aliset could create handfire without me having to roll for it, but if she wants to pass it to someone else (let's say Darcy is on a ladder trying to peek inside a dark attic, so she's trying to pass handfire up to him), maybe she has to roll to send it floating up to him, and he has to roll to catch it?
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Offline Laurna

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Re: Dice rolling
« Reply #27 on: January 27, 2018, 11:15:02 pm »
I am confused by the wording.
Quote
no you would need to roll to create a ball of Handfire
Is that "no, you would need to roll" as in yes you must roll,
or "no .... need to roll"

I don't understand.

Offline Evie

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Re: Dice rolling
« Reply #28 on: January 27, 2018, 11:49:46 pm »
I am confused by the wording.
Quote
no you would need to roll to create a ball of Handfire
Is that "no, you would need to roll" as in yes you must roll,
or "no .... need to roll"

I don't understand.

Oh, I see what you're saying. I read it wrong and assumed it said "no, you WOULDN'T need to roll" just to create handfire, but only if you wanted to pass it on, but now that I re-read it, it appears you need 3 dice rolls just to create it and pass it to someone else, which seems really complicated. My mind probably just assumed that unless you are a completely untrained Deryni (like Darcy, for instance), any Deryni with the most rudimentary ability to use his powers would normally be able to produce handfire unless there was some complicating factor interfering, such as inability to focus well, or a head injury, etc.  So I need clarification on that too, since given how it's actually worded, that means even a fully trained Deryni still has less than a 50% chance of doing something as basic as creating handfire, which seems skewed unless there is some way to have a "practice makes perfect" factor built in.  I can see odds that low for a Deryni just learning how to use basic powers, but not for someone brought up using them, even if they haven't fully completed training in the non-basics.
« Last Edit: January 27, 2018, 11:51:33 pm by Evie »
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Offline revanne

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Re: Dice rolling
« Reply #29 on: January 28, 2018, 07:32:17 am »
I am confused by the wording.
Quote
no you would need to roll to create a ball of Handfire
Is that "no, you would need to roll" as in yes you must roll,
or "no .... need to roll"

I don't understand.

Oh, I see what you're saying. I read it wrong and assumed it said "no, you WOULDN'T need to roll" just to create handfire, but only if you wanted to pass it on, but now that I re-read it, it appears you need 3 dice rolls just to create it and pass it to someone else, which seems really complicated. My mind probably just assumed that unless you are a completely untrained Deryni (like Darcy, for instance), any Deryni with the most rudimentary ability to use his powers would normally be able to produce handfire unless there was some complicating factor interfering, such as inability to focus well, or a head injury, etc.  So I need clarification on that too, since given how it's actually worded, that means even a fully trained Deryni still has less than a 50% chance of doing something as basic as creating handfire, which seems skewed unless there is some way to have a "practice makes perfect" factor built in.  I can see odds that low for a Deryni just learning how to use basic powers, but not for someone brought up using them, even if they haven't fully completed training in the non-basics.

I'm now confused too as I initially read it the same as Evie.
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