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Author Topic: Portal erratica  (Read 465 times)

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Offline DesertRose

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Re: Portal erratica
« Reply #15 on: November 04, 2017, 01:04:46 pm »
Remember Meraude had no idea there was anything in that odd nook except for the garderobe; it was only Jehana who noticed something peculiar about the wall, being Deryni. (Though hmm...it occurs to me that Jehana shouldn't have been able to get through either, despite being Deryni, since she married into the Haldane line and wasn't born of Haldane blood. Maybe there was a Haldane further back in her family tree? Or is there some other detail I've forgotten? Try to solve one mystery and a new one pops up! LOL!) 

Perhaps it was that Jehana is of Kelson's blood even if not of Haldane blood per se?
"If having a soul means being able to feel love, loyalty, and gratitude, then animals are better off than a lot of humans."

James Herriot (James Alfred "Alfie" Wight), when a human client asked him if animals have souls.  (I don't remember in which book the story originally appeared.)

Offline Evie

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Re: Portal erratica
« Reply #16 on: November 04, 2017, 02:49:58 pm »
That could be. I suspect Kelson only intended that his heirs would be able to access the Library annex with its Portal, but perhaps if that spell wasn't worded as precisely as it needed to be to limit that intent, anyone related by blood to Kelson might be able to access it. Or perhaps there wasn't a way to limit it to blood descendants, just to blood relations of the originator (Kelson), and Kelson simply didn't anticipate that his Deryni-conflicted mum would not only happen to notice the "wall" wasn't real, but also would brave her fears of magic enough to venture beyond the barrier.
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Offline Shiral

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Re: Portal erratica
« Reply #17 on: November 04, 2017, 03:46:31 pm »
The omitted mention of a garderobe when Conall went through the passage in 1125 could simply mean he took no special notice of it when he went through the short passage, not necessarily that it didn't exist at the time at all. Remember, Conall was only able to go completely through the passage into the annex due to his Haldane blood. Anyone else not a Haldane or given special permission to enter or leave the annex would simply have encountered a "stone" wall. Remember Meraude had no idea there was anything in that odd nook except for the garderobe; it was only Jehana who noticed something peculiar about the wall, being Deryni. (Though hmm...it occurs to me that Jehana shouldn't have been able to get through either, despite being Deryni, since she married into the Haldane line and wasn't born of Haldane blood. Maybe there was a Haldane further back in her family tree? Or is there some other detail I've forgotten? Try to solve one mystery and a new one pops up! LOL!) 

I tend to envision that short passage as one that (for those not in the know) appears to dead-end at a wall with a garderobe entrance (probably curtained) off to one side of that nook.  Jehana, standing outside that curtained entrance and directly in front of the entrance to the annex, just happened to be in the right place to notice that what appeared to be a solid wall before her actually wasn't, at least not to her.

Jehana wasn't a Haldane, however, her blood and Kelson's are pretty strongly linked. It might be more accurate to say that HE is of HER blood, being her son. I took it that to detect the veil, what Kelson really meant was that you must be his blood relation.  Or maybe he set it up so that Jehana could detect the veil, because he hoped she'd discover the annexe. Which she did, and  it lead to her waking up about her Deryni heritage. (After years of hostility toward Deryni and refusal to listen to either husband or son, I found it a little unrealistic that Barrett deLaney could accomplish what the two men Jehana loved best could not and accomplish it all in two weeks. Maybe Jehana was weirdly more capable of recognizing the truth and becoming reconciled to her heritage from a stranger than those two. But KKB was a novel I'd looked forward to reading for YEARS, so I went with it.)

Melissa
« Last Edit: November 04, 2017, 03:49:47 pm by Shiral »
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Offline DesertRose

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Re: Portal erratica
« Reply #18 on: November 04, 2017, 04:46:03 pm »
The omitted mention of a garderobe when Conall went through the passage in 1125 could simply mean he took no special notice of it when he went through the short passage, not necessarily that it didn't exist at the time at all. Remember, Conall was only able to go completely through the passage into the annex due to his Haldane blood. Anyone else not a Haldane or given special permission to enter or leave the annex would simply have encountered a "stone" wall. Remember Meraude had no idea there was anything in that odd nook except for the garderobe; it was only Jehana who noticed something peculiar about the wall, being Deryni. (Though hmm...it occurs to me that Jehana shouldn't have been able to get through either, despite being Deryni, since she married into the Haldane line and wasn't born of Haldane blood. Maybe there was a Haldane further back in her family tree? Or is there some other detail I've forgotten? Try to solve one mystery and a new one pops up! LOL!) 

I tend to envision that short passage as one that (for those not in the know) appears to dead-end at a wall with a garderobe entrance (probably curtained) off to one side of that nook.  Jehana, standing outside that curtained entrance and directly in front of the entrance to the annex, just happened to be in the right place to notice that what appeared to be a solid wall before her actually wasn't, at least not to her.

Jehana wasn't a Haldane, however, her blood and Kelson's are pretty strongly linked. It might be more accurate to say that HE is of HER blood, being her son. I took it that to detect the veil, what Kelson really meant was that you must be his blood relation.  Or maybe he set it up so that Jehana could detect the veil, because he hoped she'd discover the annexe. Which she did, and  it lead to her waking up about her Deryni heritage. (After years of hostility toward Deryni and refusal to listen to either husband or son, I found it a little unrealistic that Barrett deLaney could accomplish what the two men Jehana loved best could not and accomplish it all in two weeks. Maybe Jehana was weirdly more capable of recognizing the truth and becoming reconciled to her heritage from a stranger than those two. But KKB was a novel I'd looked forward to reading for YEARS, so I went with it.)

Melissa

Well, yes, more accurately, Kelson is of Jehana's blood than the other way around, but still, the point I was trying to make was that they are first-degree blood relatives, and that may be why she was able to gain access to the library behind the veil that Meraude perceived as a wall.

Sometimes a sympathetic stranger is more helpful a confidante than someone who has seen every mistake you've made (or at least every mistake in recent memory), re: Jehana and Barrett de Laney.
"If having a soul means being able to feel love, loyalty, and gratitude, then animals are better off than a lot of humans."

James Herriot (James Alfred "Alfie" Wight), when a human client asked him if animals have souls.  (I don't remember in which book the story originally appeared.)

Offline Evie

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Re: Portal erratica
« Reply #19 on: November 04, 2017, 05:39:12 pm »

(After years of hostility toward Deryni and refusal to listen to either husband or son, I found it a little unrealistic that Barrett deLaney could accomplish what the two men Jehana loved best could not and accomplish it all in two weeks. Maybe Jehana was weirdly more capable of recognizing the truth and becoming reconciled to her heritage from a stranger than those two. But KKB was a novel I'd looked forward to reading for YEARS, so I went with it.)

Melissa


Actually, I read that scene as showing that it was her discovery of the "Adsum Domine" (is that the title I'm looking for? The one that's the Healers' Oath?) that moved her so profoundly as a work that showed extreme religious devotion and reverence for life, which she never expected to find in an "evil Deryni" text,  and a sacred vow to use Deryni powers for good and do no harm, using a gift that even she would have trouble viewing as inherently evil, and that was clearly written for a Deryni audience, not simply meant to convince gullible humans. I think Barrett just happened to be in the right place at the right time to help her make sense of this new revelation, and his blindness might have also made her less wary of him due to her misperception that this probably made him "safer" and  therefore less threatening than other Deryni. (Heh. If only she'd known! But it's probably for the best that she didn't. )
« Last Edit: November 04, 2017, 05:42:24 pm by Evie »
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Offline Laurna

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Re: Portal erratica
« Reply #20 on: November 04, 2017, 11:42:10 pm »
From Erratica, to erotica, to exaltation: we come to the Adsum, Domime:

Quote
Adsum, Domime:

     gratiam mihi concessisti ut corpora hominum sanem.
Adsum, Domine:

     visum mihi donasti ut animas hominum videam.
Adsum, Domine:

     potentiam mihi dedisti ut voluntates aliorum convertam.
Da, Domine, vires et sapientiam

     ut haec omnia dona tantum ad ministerium dirigam,
     secundum voluntatem tuam.

Here am I, Lord: Thou hast granted me the grace to heal men's bodies.
Here am I, Lord: Thou hast blessed me with the Sight to See men's souls.
Here am I, Lord: Thou hast given me the might to bend the will of others.
O Lord, grant strength and wisdom to wield all these gifts only as Thy will wouldst have me serve.
http://www.rhemuthcastle.com/index.php/topic,1918.msg16470

I named one of my Cavalier King Charles Spaniel puppies after this: "Song of Rhys". Although my sister does not get it and just calls him Reeses Pieces.  ;)

Online drakensis

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Re: Portal erratica
« Reply #21 on: November 05, 2017, 02:43:19 am »
I think Barrett just happened to be in the right place at the right time to help her make sense of this new revelation, and his blindness might have also made her less wary of him due to her misperception that this probably made him "safer" and  therefore less threatening than other Deryni. (Heh. If only she'd known! But it's probably for the best that she didn't. )

That's about my own thinking. She'd been bracing herself up to confront the Deryni issues she'd been hiding from at the abbey (albeit not expecting the outcome that resulted) and then meets a Deryni who she doesn't have the immense emotional entanglements that she does with Kelson and Morgan.

We know she has some fondness for scholarly pursuits, given her recollections of sharing them with Brion so running into a more obviously scholastic Deryni (Morgan is no dummy but he behaves more as a man of action, given his martial duties) who seems harmless got her to lower her defenses to Barrett.

I think Jehana wanted all along for the issue of Deryni not to get between her and Kelson - who she loves a great deal - but she'd been focused by her religious focus on the Deryni themselves rather than her hang-ups about them. Once she realised she'd managed to let her suspicions go when it came to Barrett, it opened the door to doing the same for her son.

Offline judywward

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Re: Portal erratica
« Reply #22 on: November 05, 2017, 08:21:49 am »
Question: is this in KKB? I just don't remember it but probably only read KKB 2X and that would have been when it came out.
Judy Ward

Offline Evie

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Re: Portal erratica
« Reply #23 on: November 05, 2017, 09:01:57 am »
Question: is this in KKB? I just don't remember it but probably only read KKB 2X and that would have been when it came out.

Yes, Jehana doesn't come around to realizing she was wrong about Deryni until 1128, in KKB.  And we learn from the Codex that she and Barrett end up marrying, and they have a daughter sometime by 1130.
"In necessariis unitas, in non-necessariis libertas, in utrisque caritas."

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Offline judywward

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Re: Portal erratica
« Reply #24 on: November 06, 2017, 06:25:41 pm »
Is the Codex ever going to be reprinted?  I really need one.  Should have bought it when it was available but piddled around & didn't.

I hope Jehanna felt bad about trying to come between Brion and his best friend all those years.
Judy Ward

Offline DesertRose

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Re: Portal erratica
« Reply #25 on: November 06, 2017, 07:52:24 pm »
Is the Codex ever going to be reprinted?  I really need one.  Should have bought it when it was available but piddled around & didn't.

I hope Jehanna felt bad about trying to come between Brion and his best friend all those years.

The first edition of the Codex was a limited-edition hardback, but a few years later, a second edition, a large paperback, was released in a much larger printing.  (That's the one I have.)  You should be able to find a second edition on Amazon, another book site, or even a used book shop.  :D
"If having a soul means being able to feel love, loyalty, and gratitude, then animals are better off than a lot of humans."

James Herriot (James Alfred "Alfie" Wight), when a human client asked him if animals have souls.  (I don't remember in which book the story originally appeared.)

Offline Laurna

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Re: Portal erratica
« Reply #26 on: November 06, 2017, 08:05:23 pm »
Link at Amazon
https://www.amazon.com/Codex-Derynianus-Katherine-Kurtz/dp/1887424962/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1510020071&sr=8-1&keywords=codex+derynianus

Looks like it is only available from 3rd party sellers at the moment. but at least you can get it fairly inexpensive.
Originally it came with the poster map but that is only sold separately now. I have also seen the book and the map available on E-bay.

Offline Evie

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Re: Portal erratica
« Reply #27 on: November 07, 2017, 01:16:57 pm »
Is the Codex ever going to be reprinted?  I really need one.

To the other answers to this posted earlier, I will also add that Katherine has (or at least had?) plans to release a 3rd Edition of the Codex in an electronic format that could be easily updated as new books come out. However, her co-author of the Codex recently (in the past year or two) died, and I think there was some delay in Katherine getting the original files back from his widow or something, so I don't know what the latest update is on this project.  Perhaps we can ask her during the next Sunday chat.
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Offline Tigersue

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Re: Portal erratica
« Reply #28 on: November 13, 2017, 10:58:58 pm »
You all make me laugh.  Sorry it took so long for me to come back to this.  The real question for me is in KKB it states that the portal was found just the year or summer earlier, when in the Quest for Saint Camber it is found, and veiled meaning there is no way it was just found a year before in KKB.


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