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Author Topic: Warin De Gray question  (Read 657 times)

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Offline btuey

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Warin De Gray question
« on: February 13, 2017, 10:21:08 am »
Having just finished re-reading this series for the umpteenth time, I must say that the character of Warin is raising some new questions for me. One thing which I have noticed is the similarity between Warin's followers and the Willimites in the Legends of Camber trilogy, who later became Revan's baptizer cult. That said, it was Morgan's comment about Warin having a "flair for intrigue" that really caught my attention. I know this might be a bit of a stretch, but could he have some familial ties to either Revan or that Willimite group of his? I know that Revan died in 922 with Javan et al., but if a remanant of that group survived then it almost stands to reason that stories of Revan and his matrydom would have been handed down through the group.

Another possibility, which also seems to be a bit of a stretch, is what if Warin was deliberately placed by a group of Deryni not from Gwynnedd, be they Anvillers or some other group from farther to the East? Perhaps he was covertly given the task of reminding people of some of the good which came from Deryni powers, namely: Healers. To this end, it would make sense for him to have been sent by the Anvillers, especially if they had harboured any healers who fled from the persecutions. This would mean that they would also have to have knowledge of how to block Deryni talents and/or suppress memories. After being blocked, it would have been a simple process to reintroduce a later generation back to the land where they once dwelt giving further credibility to the Willimite movement. A few generations later, Warin is born and eventually begins to show his ability to heal. With his family line having been blocked, he would have no knowledge of his Deryni heritage, or the extent of his powers. Also, he would pass as human to any Deryni unless that individual knew what to look for. Such knowledge now may only be known by the inner circle of the CC, ignored as there have been no known Healers until now.

Of course, it could also be coincidence, as this series was written prior to the Legends of Camber 

Offline Laurna

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Re: Warin De Gray question
« Reply #1 on: February 16, 2017, 03:43:26 am »
Hello Btuey,
I have been trying to consider a response to you for a while, but unfortunately my head is in 983 right now. I do agree with you that there is some relation between Warin De Gray's followers and the Willimites of  the early 900's. Although, Warin was written first, it follows that the Deryni-hating group had a precursor group in Cambers Era who assassinated Lord Rannulf in 903.

Revan was human, so I have doubts that Warin had Familial ties to Revan. And I can not imagine any more healers rejoining that group after Javan and Revan were slaughtered. I won't discount this idea, as it could lead to interesting speculation, but I would have to then consider that Warin was several generations after that.

I personally am more inclined to believe that there are various complicated patterns of genetics involved in certain family lines. Like the Haldane potential, it is possible that a few other families carry similar unknown abilities that could be tapped when a stressful situation occurred when Deryni were using their magic. Somehow that magic inadvertently trigger a hidden manifestation of power. And like the Haldanes, the knowledge to use that power, in this case a Healing power, was gained without excessive training. If this happened suddenly to a young man, it is understandable why he felt this "Gift" was divine province,  for such a gift was indeed a blessing. Since magic is a physical force in this world of the Eleven Kingdoms, I can believe that evolution would have found more than one way to tap into it. We already know of three ways- being Deryni, being Haldane, and Second sight.  Somewhere in there is a forth, being Warren De Gray.
« Last Edit: February 16, 2017, 03:52:41 am by Laurna »

Offline Lochiel

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Re: Warin De Gray question
« Reply #2 on: July 22, 2017, 03:39:29 pm »
Very interesting line of speculation.  When Alaric & Duncan Heal they had no formal training in healing as it was a lost Deryni ability & knowledge yet they describe it as "another pair of hands on top of his, of another presence pouring through him, giving life and strength to the still form beneath his hands." pg 188 DR
The Thuryn technique is also used to channel it.  Perhaps Warin is tapping into a similar source that does not spring from themselves?
"And as they tread the ruined Isle,
Where rest, at length,
the lord and slave,
They'll wondering ask, how hands so vile,
Could conquer hearts so brave?"
Thomas Moore

Offline Bynw

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Re: Warin De Gray question
« Reply #3 on: Today at 08:27:51 am »
The Presence pouring through Alaric and Duncan is generally believed to be that of Saint Camber. Although Camber himself was not a Healer he did work closely with Rhys and other healers in his lifetime. But the source of Alaric and Duncan's healing is themselves. They are descendants of Rhys and have the recessive genetic talent of healing. But due to the destruction of the Healer schools it has been a dormant power for centuries in those who carry it. Alaric first healed Derry, is dear friend and aide.

Warin de Grey is something else. He was check by Dennis, a member of the CC and a fully trained Deryni. And determined not to be Deryni. But as Laurna pointed out. Nature will have a way of making something available.

Offline Lochiel

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Re: Warin De Gray question
« Reply #4 on: Today at 10:11:39 am »
So perhaps Saint Camber is guiding Alaric's & Duncan's untrained Healing abilities than.
"And as they tread the ruined Isle,
Where rest, at length,
the lord and slave,
They'll wondering ask, how hands so vile,
Could conquer hearts so brave?"
Thomas Moore

Offline DesertRose

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Re: Warin De Gray question
« Reply #5 on: Today at 10:14:41 am »
Quite possible.

In mortal life, Camber was fascinated with the Healing gift, although he didn't himself have the evidently genetic trait that confers it upon people, so I would think that he'd be more than willing to guide a couple of descendants of his (since Morgan and Duncan are descended from Rhys and Evaine) in the use of their Healing abilities.

 

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