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Author Topic: Codex Derynianus.  (Read 19371 times)

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Offline Elkhound

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Re: Codex Derynianus.
« Reply #30 on: November 12, 2014, 10:54:49 am »
St. Jerome is the patron of Librarians and Translators.

Offline tenworld

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Re: Codex Derynianus.
« Reply #31 on: November 17, 2014, 09:35:56 am »

The fact that Rhysel Thuryn married a human and the descendants don't appear to be Deryni may be among the reasons the Camberian Council are unhappy about Deryni marrying humans: they know the Deryni are depleted in numbers since the purges of the 10th century and seeing some of their already few bloodlines thinned out and lost to them can't be something they're happy about.


I think we underestimate that KK built in a way to get around canon problems that always show up in long running series:

the rare ability to turn off Deryni powers (and then alter memories and future behavior).  So eg Rhysel's children could be and probably
were Deryni, and new members of the Council may have been adjusted. We have discussed in the past a hidden inner circle that started with Camber's grandchildren. Or so we thought back in Usenet days.

Offline revanne

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Re: Codex Derynianus.
« Reply #32 on: November 17, 2014, 02:06:30 pm »
I've always though there were probably far more Deryni than it appears in Deryni Rising but anyone with any possibility of staying hidden would do so. I can't precisely remember but I think that one of Rhysel's motivations in TBP for marrying a human is to ensure a continuing but hidden Deryni presence at court. Which again makes me think that maybe plans were laid down for survival by the group in the Sanctuary - blocking, the founding of St. Keryiell's (sorry wrong spelling), infiltration of Deryni into human bloodlines, the memory of which was destroyed in the trauma/traumas of 948. We definitely need another trilogy.
Let God rise up, let his enemies be scattered;
    let those who hate him flee before him.
As smoke is driven away, so drive them away;
    as wax melts before the fire,
    let the wicked perish before God.
(Psalm 68 vv1-2)

Offline Raksha the Demon

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Re: Codex Derynianus.
« Reply #33 on: March 27, 2018, 03:55:19 pm »
Didn't KK say in one of the introductions or afterwords that the child of a Deryni mother is always Deryni whereas the child of a Deryni father and a human mother has a 50-50 chance of being Deryni?  Or am I remembering canonical Deryni genetics incorrectly?

Rhysel's Thuryn's children by Robert Ainslie would have been full Deryni (despite the Camberian Council's later equivocation about "half-breed" Deryni).  She could have found someone who could suppress the expression of Deryni powers, or her children and descendants could have simply been very, very discreet, as Rhysel herself seems to have been, when in public...

Offline DesertRose

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Re: Codex Derynianus.
« Reply #34 on: March 27, 2018, 05:01:03 pm »
Didn't KK say in one of the introductions or afterwords that the child of a Deryni mother is always Deryni whereas the child of a Deryni father and a human mother has a 50-50 chance of being Deryni?  Or am I remembering canonical Deryni genetics incorrectly?

Rhysel's Thuryn's children by Robert Ainslie would have been full Deryni (despite the Camberian Council's later equivocation about "half-breed" Deryni).  She could have found someone who could suppress the expression of Deryni powers, or her children and descendants could have simply been very, very discreet, as Rhysel herself seems to have been, when in public...

In the original edition of either Deryni Rising or Deryni Checkmate (at the end of the book, in either case), KK included an essay about the genetics of Deryni and humans who can be empowered (the Haldanes and others), and then she later changed her mind about how it all works.
"If having a soul means being able to feel love, loyalty, and gratitude, then animals are better off than a lot of humans."

James Herriot (James Alfred "Alfie" Wight), when a human client asked him if animals have souls.  (I don't remember in which book the story originally appeared.)

Offline Bynw

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Re: Codex Derynianus.
« Reply #35 on: March 27, 2018, 05:01:47 pm »
There was some genetic information like that in an afterward of one of the early books. However it's sense been tossed out as inaccurate.

The only thing we still know for certain with the Deryni and genetics is that female healers are rare.

Offline lenni

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Re: Codex Derynianus.
« Reply #36 on: March 27, 2018, 08:06:55 pm »
I've always though there were probably far more Deryni than it appears in Deryni Rising but anyone with any possibility of staying hidden would do so. I can't precisely remember but I think that one of Rhysel's motivations in TBP for marrying a human is to ensure a continuing but hidden Deryni presence at court. Which again makes me think that maybe plans were laid down for survival by the group in the Sanctuary - blocking, the founding of St. Keryiell's (sorry wrong spelling), infiltration of Deryni into human bloodlines, the memory of which was destroyed in the trauma/traumas of 948. We definitely need another trilogy.

Oh, yes, we do!!

Lenni

Offline Raksha the Demon

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Re: Codex Derynianus.
« Reply #37 on: March 28, 2018, 01:45:13 pm »
I've always though there were probably far more Deryni than it appears in Deryni Rising but anyone with any possibility of staying hidden would do so. I can't precisely remember but I think that one of Rhysel's motivations in TBP for marrying a human is to ensure a continuing but hidden Deryni presence at court. Which again makes me think that maybe plans were laid down for survival by the group in the Sanctuary - blocking, the founding of St. Keryiell's (sorry wrong spelling), infiltration of Deryni into human bloodlines, the memory of which was destroyed in the trauma/traumas of 948. We definitely need another trilogy.

Rhysel could have married a hidden Deryni, someone whose powers were blocked.  I had the impression that she was strongly attracted to Robert Ainslie when she first met him and that the feelings could have easily blossomed later to love (he's a stand-up guy and also was strongly attracted to her and wanted to court her). 

We need more than one trilogy!  Anyone else want to see a 40-year-old Kelson (as long as he isn't killed off) and his family and other old and new friends confront some new dangers after years of peace?

Offline Bynw

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Re: Codex Derynianus.
« Reply #38 on: March 28, 2018, 01:49:18 pm »
We have that already in http://www.rhemuthcastle.com/index.php/topic,2134.0.html not canon but still fun.

Offline revanne

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Re: Codex Derynianus.
« Reply #39 on: March 28, 2018, 03:39:43 pm »
We have that already in http://www.rhemuthcastle.com/index.php/topic,2134.0.html not canon but still fun.

My thoughts exactly Bynw.  Though sometimes it's "Fun, did the man say fun?"  ;D
Let God rise up, let his enemies be scattered;
    let those who hate him flee before him.
As smoke is driven away, so drive them away;
    as wax melts before the fire,
    let the wicked perish before God.
(Psalm 68 vv1-2)

Offline JediMatt1000

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Re: Codex Derynianus.
« Reply #40 on: October 22, 2018, 10:05:54 pm »
Does the Codex go into any detail about the Gabrilites and Varnarites?

Offline drakensis

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Re: Codex Derynianus.
« Reply #41 on: October 23, 2018, 02:24:25 am »
Both orders have entries. To summarise:

Gabrilites (Ordo Sancti Gabrielis). An all Deryni esoteric order founded on 24 March 745 incorporating some pagan traditions. Especially noted for training Healers and considered to provide the most thorough training in that field. Based at St Neots in the south Lendour mountains.

Varanites (Ordo Sancti Varnari). Deryni scholars who split from the Gabrilites around 745 and established a university in Grecotha, training healers. They were noted as more pragmatic and less subtle than the more conservative and philosophical Gabrilites. They may have moved some records to a secret archive before making this move.

The two entries don't mesh entirely but it seems to me that both sprang from the same pre-Christian Deryni tradition but went in two directions as they became religious orders. For reference, 745 would be during the reign of Saint Bearand, the fourth Haldane king. This tends to suggest that the 8th century had Christianity firming up its position in the Eleven Kingdoms and it may previously have been in a relatively weak position outside of the old Byzantum provinces. St Neots would have been well within this region, near the border between Gwynedd and the then independent Mooryn, while Grecotha was in the far north of Gwynedd, near the highlands of both Meara and Kheldour which may have been pagan strongholds given they still have distinct traditions even in Kelson's day.

 

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