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Author Topic: Limits on magic?  (Read 5203 times)

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Offline whitelaughter

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Re: Limits on magic?
« Reply #15 on: March 15, 2017, 10:46:01 pm »
Hmm - just realised that we have a canon example; in Deryni Rising doesn't Earl Ian Howell use a guard as energy to talk with Clarissa, and then murder him directly afterwards? That's a really strong link with both Ian and Clarissa, that is easily ended and the murder committed without any mental backlash.

Offline bronwynevaine

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Re: Limits on magic?
« Reply #16 on: March 16, 2017, 12:11:26 pm »
Or they don't feel any backlash the way psychopaths don't feel any guilt.

Most experts believe psychopaths and sociopaths share a similar set of traits. People like this have a poor inner sense of right and wrong. They also can’t seem to understand or share another person’s feelings. But there are some differences, too.

Do They Have a Conscience?

A key difference between a psychopath and a sociopath is whether he has a conscience, the little voice inside that lets us know when we’re doing something wrong, says L. Michael Tompkins, EdD. He's a psychologist at the Sacramento County Mental Health Treatment Center.

A psychopath doesn’t have a conscience. If he lies to you so he can steal your money, he won’t feel any moral qualms, though he may pretend to. He may observe others and then act the way they do so he’s not “found out,” Tompkins says.

A sociopath typically has a conscience, but it’s weak. He may know that taking your money is wrong, and he might feel some guilt or remorse, but that won’t stop his behavior.

Both lack empathy, the ability to stand in someone else’s shoes and understand how they feel. But a psychopath has less regard for others, says Aaron Kipnis, PhD, author of The Midas Complex. Someone with this personality type sees others as objects he can use for his own benefit.
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http://www.webmd.com/mental-health/features/sociopath-psychopath-difference#1

I think Ian and Charissa fit the sociopath/psychopath definition.





I don't just march to the beat of a different drummer...I dance to a beat no one else can hear :)

Offline revanne

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Re: Limits on magic?
« Reply #17 on: March 17, 2017, 05:23:46 am »
I would agree in the case of Ian but I think it can be argued that Charissa's behaviour  arises from past trauma so may fit the definition but is not so much due to personality type. The story "Lover to Shadows" in Deryni Tales (? not in a position  to check atm ) gives a very insightful take from another direction.

Archbishop Hubert from the Camber era would be a good example of a human with such traits but one whose spiritual practices might have been expected to give greater sympathy.
Let God rise up, let his enemies be scattered;
    let those who hate him flee before him.
As smoke is driven away, so drive them away;
    as wax melts before the fire,
    let the wicked perish before God.
(Psalm 68 vv1-2)

Online Bynw

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Re: Limits on magic?
« Reply #18 on: March 17, 2017, 09:33:09 am »
If I recall correctly, but I don't have the books infront of me at this time. But I believe the guard was killed in mundane fashion rather than by magic. And Ian killed him so there would be no witness to who used him for the energy necessary to enter Rapport at such a distance and to pin the murder on Morgan.

Offline whitelaughter

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Re: Limits on magic?
« Reply #19 on: March 20, 2017, 04:24:56 am »
I pegged Ian as 'obnoxious twerp' - his wounded pride and response when he take a minor wound in his duel with Morgan being the final, fatal example.

Clarissa? Last heir to a doomed house, seeking to avenge her father, knowing that she will be the last of the line? And she does warn Ian that he is burning out the guard he is using for the conversation. Agree with Revanne that this screams trauma rather than true psychopathy: Clarissa's actions stem from hatred not indifference.

Offline bronwynevaine

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Re: Limits on magic?
« Reply #20 on: March 20, 2017, 05:50:45 pm »
We know Charissa was taught to hate the Haldanes and to view Gwynedd as hers by right. We know she witnessed the death of her father. We don't know enough of Ian's background to know if he was traumatized as a child or simply "born bad." Either way, I think they are both sociopaths at best. It's tragic, but some adults learned as children to be vicious, to be cruel, to be without remorse.
I don't just march to the beat of a different drummer...I dance to a beat no one else can hear :)

 

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