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Author Topic: Deryni blood in the Haldanes  (Read 5835 times)

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Offline HealingWaters

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Deryni blood in the Haldanes
« on: July 21, 2015, 03:26:36 pm »
Not fully sure how much Jesse's half sister has in her but even if she is only a quter ther is still deryni blood in the Haldane line through her and Rhys Michael.
May Michael protect us, Gaberiel bless us, Uriel shield us and Raphiel guide us.

Offline Jerusha

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Re: Deryni blood in the Haldanes
« Reply #1 on: July 21, 2015, 06:39:50 pm »
According to the Codex, Rhys Michael married Micheala Drummond, who was Deryni, but who had her powers blocked by Tavis O'Neill.  Her powers were restored by Tieg Thuryn and she helped to enable the Haldane potential in Rhys.  So yes, there was Deryni blood in the Haldane line, though this was probably kept secret due to the political environment.  I wonder how much influence this may have had in enabling the Haldane potential in later generations.  It certainly would have the potential to strengthen it.
From ghoulies and ghosties and long-leggity beasties and things that go bump in the night...good Lord deliver us!

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Offline HealingWaters

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Re: Deryni blood in the Haldanes
« Reply #2 on: July 21, 2015, 06:44:48 pm »
sorry my bad i ment Jamie
May Michael protect us, Gaberiel bless us, Uriel shield us and Raphiel guide us.

Offline HealingWaters

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Re: Deryni blood in the Haldanes
« Reply #3 on: July 21, 2015, 06:47:32 pm »
yes and in so doing even her own was hightened
May Michael protect us, Gaberiel bless us, Uriel shield us and Raphiel guide us.

Offline Laurna

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Re: Deryni blood in the Haldanes
« Reply #4 on: July 22, 2015, 05:27:42 am »
There is a precedence for the Family line of the Haldanes to marry members of the Deryni blood.
From a review of the Codex Derynianus, I offer a list of the Haldane Kings who could pass that Deryni trait to their children.
I will leave it up to the reader to decide at what point of dilution the Deryni gene is no longer showing. Do remember that per KK, the Deryni trait is dominant and stronger than Human genes and it tends to be passed to the next generation. However, the Deryni abilities need to be trained in order to be used. Not many of the middle year Haldanes would have had access to full training. Although, once the King gains his Haldane Potential that training would no longer be necessary.

Bearand II Haldane married the Princess Gertrudis d'Estavaye daughter of the King of Mooryn. I believe she was full Deryni.
   |  (son)
Augarina II Haldane Born in the year 611 would be 1/2 Deryni , he married Rosemaryn Lady MacLean.  It is known that the ancient family of MacLean were Deryni.
   |  (1st son was Aidan King of Haldane (673-698) who had no sons. His daughter Bethany married Imre I King of Torenth. Their daughter was Raphaela)
   |  (2nd son)
LLarik Haldane is  3/4  Deryni,  he marries Sidonie Princess of Meara who is human
   |  (son)         
Ryons Haldane is 1/2 Deryni, he marries his cousin Raphaela Princess of Torenth Who is at least 3/4 Deryni
   |  (son)
St. Bearand Haldane should be considered full Deryni, he married Aisling Lady Kincaid who is human.
   |  (son)
Ifor Haldane Born 778 and is 1/2 Deryni. He married Nuala lady Udaut. My best guess is that she is Human.
   |  (4th son and only surviving child of the Festilic coup d'etat)
Aidan Haldane (Daniel Draper) Born 820. who would be 1/4 Deryni, he married Avis de Burgeys who is Human
   |  (son)
Alroy Haldane (Royston Draper) Born 843 who would be 1/8 Deryni, he married Nellwyn de Menville who is Human.
   |  (son)
Cinhil I Haldane (Nicholas Draper) Born 860 who is likely Human, he marries Megan Lady de Cameron who is also Human.
   |  (4th son)
Rhys Michael Haldane Born 906 is Human, he marries Michaela Drummand who is Deryni but who had been blocked. (In other discussions, the consensuses is that the Deryni Gene in the child of a blocked parent is not themselves blocked.)
   |  (2nd son)
Uthyr Haldane Born 929 is 1/2 Deryni, he marries Grania MacInnis Countess of Culdi who is 1/2 Deryni. (Grania's mother is Richeldis MacLean MacInnis who had her Deryni powers blocked by Healer Tavis on January 21, 918. This was before Richeldis MacLean married Iver MacInnis on March 5, 918.)
   |  (3rd son)
Cluim Haldane Born 953 is 1/4 or 1/2 Deryni (dependent upon the passage of the Deryni ability from a blocked parent). Cluim marries Swynbeth Lady Fitz-Arthur Quinnell who is secretly 1/4 Deryni.
   |  (son)
Urien Haldane Born 974 is at least 1/4 Deryni, he marries Jaroni Al-Mullahib the Daughter of the King of R'Kassi. Although the Kings of R'Kassi are known to be Deryni two generations later, it is thought that Jaroni is Human, however that is up for speculation.
   | (6th son)
Malcolm Haldane Born 1008 is 1/8 Deryni, he marries 1st Roisian Quinnell who is Human (There has been some speculation as to Roisian having some Deryni blood. Her grandfather on her mother's side, mother is Princess Urracca Faucon, is said to be the hereditary Prince of Bremagne with the surname of Faucon. I don't have the exact relations figured out yet.)
   |  (son)
Donal Haldane Born 1030. He most likely does not carry the Deryni trait, but we may never know for sure. He marries secondly Richeldis MacFaolan-Gruffud who is Human.
   |  (son)
Brion Haldane Born 1081 is Human, he marries Jehana Princess of Bremagne who has unacknowledged her full Deryni heritage.
   |  (son)
Kelson Haldane Born 1106 is 1/2 Deryni, he marries is cousin Araxie Haldane Baroness Dunluce who is also 1/2 Deryni.
   |  (son)
Javan Haldane who is full Deryni because both parents carried the Deryni trait.


« Last Edit: October 13, 2018, 11:58:05 am by Laurna »

Offline Lochiel

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Re: Deryni blood in the Haldanes
« Reply #5 on: May 29, 2016, 11:14:59 am »
Nice work Laurna! I'm curious as to how much Camber's relatives and descendants have intermarried with the Haldanes. Jamie Drummond was related to Camber through one of Camber's sisters, I wonder if there are more times than that?
"And as they tread the ruined Isle,
Where rest, at length,
the lord and slave,
They'll wondering ask, how hands so vile,
Could conquer hearts so brave?"
Thomas Moore

Offline Lochiel

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Re: Deryni blood in the Haldanes
« Reply #6 on: May 29, 2016, 11:36:29 am »
My bad I checked my Codex, Jamie Drummond was related to Camber from a earlier generation of MacRories
"And as they tread the ruined Isle,
Where rest, at length,
the lord and slave,
They'll wondering ask, how hands so vile,
Could conquer hearts so brave?"
Thomas Moore

Offline Laurna

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Re: Deryni blood in the Haldanes
« Reply #7 on: May 29, 2016, 05:05:46 pm »
Hello Lochiel,
If you are interested in a full listing of Camber Descendants as found in the Codex, you may see my charts listed here:
http://www.rhemuthcastle.com/index.php/topic,1441.0.html

The specific Camber to Haldane chart is listed here:
http://www.rhemuthcastle.com/index.php/topic,1478.0.html

I tried my best to find everything I could on the subject. Kind of a passion of mine, if you will.  And as for everyone, if there is an error or other information comes up that I have not listed, please tell me or tell Desertrose and I will update the charts.

Offline Lochiel

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Re: Deryni blood in the Haldanes
« Reply #8 on: September 24, 2016, 12:59:25 pm »
Thank you Laurna for your work on this. Kudos!
"And as they tread the ruined Isle,
Where rest, at length,
the lord and slave,
They'll wondering ask, how hands so vile,
Could conquer hearts so brave?"
Thomas Moore

Offline Laurna

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Re: Deryni blood in the Haldanes
« Reply #9 on: September 24, 2016, 09:19:57 pm »
Thank You  I enjoyed doing it.
I also use the charts for referencing, quite often.  As I hope, others will do.

Offline JediMatt1000

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Re: Deryni blood in the Haldanes
« Reply #10 on: July 17, 2018, 08:47:15 pm »
Did Kelson have any heirs? Don't think I've got past the first book of his series yet..hoping to have more reading time soon.

Offline Evie

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Re: Deryni blood in the Haldanes
« Reply #11 on: July 17, 2018, 09:48:17 pm »
The last book set in Kelson's time ends with his marriage, but the Codex Derynianus (a concordance of the series that goes to the year 1130, two years after that marriage) we find out the name of twin princesses and the future heir. Kelson wasted no time, apparently!   ;D
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Offline tenworld

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Re: Deryni blood in the Haldanes
« Reply #12 on: October 13, 2018, 10:28:47 am »
thinking about this, I think the weak link in these books is that by the last book you realize that Haldanes before Kelson had more Deryni blood than Morgan. And probably a majority of the nobility have hidden/unknown Deryni genes that even allowing for ongoing blocking should have more impact that reported in the books.


Its like the statistic I have seen with DNA testing, that 90% of people with European ancestry are related to Charlemagne.

Offline DesertRose

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Re: Deryni blood in the Haldanes
« Reply #13 on: October 13, 2018, 10:37:47 am »
thinking about this, I think the weak link in these books is that by the last book you realize that Haldanes before Kelson had more Deryni blood than Morgan. And probably a majority of the nobility have hidden/unknown Deryni genes that even allowing for ongoing blocking should have more impact that reported in the books.


Its like the statistic I have seen with DNA testing, that 90% of people with European ancestry are related to Charlemagne.

Well, yeah, because Charlemagne lived twelve hundred years ago and had something like seventeen children (legitimate and illegitimate) whose names are recorded (and that's to say nothing of the high probability that he had other illegitimate children whose names are lost to time)!

An awful lot of people of European descent are likewise related to John of Gaunt, via his daughter by Lady Katherine Swynford, Lady Joan Beaufort, whose second husband Ralph Neville, Earl of Westmorland and by whom she had at least sixteen children whose names are known and who mostly married and had children of their own (I think at least one daughter took the veil, though).

But you're right about Deryni ancestry in both the Haldane line and probably a good number of the noble families of Gwynedd whether they know they have Deryni blood or not!
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