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Author Topic: Campaign for the canonisation of Jorian  (Read 11763 times)

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Offline revanne

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Campaign for the canonisation of Jorian
« on: March 09, 2015, 04:44:19 pm »
Thinking about Duncan's Ordination as I am at the moment - (intending to post Maundy Thursday, Holy Saturday and Easter Sunday. There I've given myself a deadline!) it more and more occurs to me how pivotal Jorian's self-sacrifice was. it seems relatively easy to be canonised in the Church of Gwynedd so am hereby starting a campaign for the elevation of St. Jorian the Martyr to the Altars.
Let God rise up, let his enemies be scattered;
    let those who hate him flee before him.
As smoke is driven away, so drive them away;
    as wax melts before the fire,
    let the wicked perish before God.
(Psalm 68 vv1-2)

Offline Evie

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Re: Campaign for the canonisation of Jorian
« Reply #1 on: March 09, 2015, 04:46:41 pm »
I'm good with it.  ;)
"In necessariis unitas, in non-necessariis libertas, in utrisque caritas."

--WARNING!!!--
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Offline Evie

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Re: Campaign for the canonisation of Jorian
« Reply #2 on: March 09, 2015, 05:16:55 pm »
Hm...does TKD or the Codex mention the date of Jorian's execution?  I'm wondering if the dates would work for inserting a mention of "St. Jorian's Day" into my future-era Deryni story.
"In necessariis unitas, in non-necessariis libertas, in utrisque caritas."

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Offline revanne

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Re: Campaign for the canonisation of Jorian
« Reply #3 on: March 09, 2015, 05:27:45 pm »
It's in the "Priesting of Arilan" as Martinmas, which is November 11th. Perhaps he could be celebrated on the day of his priesting which was about three months before (but would have to check out whether an actual date was given) - as the unknown voice shouts out, he was actually validly ordained.
Let God rise up, let his enemies be scattered;
    let those who hate him flee before him.
As smoke is driven away, so drive them away;
    as wax melts before the fire,
    let the wicked perish before God.
(Psalm 68 vv1-2)

Offline Jerusha

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Re: Campaign for the canonisation of Jorian
« Reply #4 on: March 09, 2015, 09:43:16 pm »
I absolutely endorse the idea!  (Not that I've ever had any influence on sainthood.  :) )

Seriously though, I can't imagine the torment he went through - resolute in his faith, but facing an excruciating trial.   He endured with grace.   
From ghoulies and ghosties and long-leggity beasties and things that go bump in the night...good Lord deliver us!

 -- Old English Litany

Offline Aerlys

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Re: Campaign for the canonisation of Jorian
« Reply #5 on: March 10, 2015, 12:20:10 pm »
I second...er...third the motion. Maybe someone can work in a few miracles worked by St. Jorian into their fanfic.
"Loss and possession, death and life are one, There falls no shadow where there shines no sun."

Hilaire Belloc

Offline Evie

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Re: Campaign for the canonisation of Jorian
« Reply #6 on: March 10, 2015, 01:27:32 pm »
I imagine St. Jorian would be the patron saint of Deryni priests, wouldn't he?  That seems like it would be a given.
"In necessariis unitas, in non-necessariis libertas, in utrisque caritas."

--WARNING!!!--
I have a vocabulary in excess of 75,000 words, and I'm not afraid to use it!

Offline DesertRose

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Re: Campaign for the canonisation of Jorian
« Reply #7 on: March 10, 2015, 01:36:58 pm »
I imagine St. Jorian would be the patron saint of Deryni priests, wouldn't he?  That seems like it would be a given.

Darn all y'all for giving me more ideas for the stalled 1366 story.  :D

But yes, it does seem reasonable for him to be canonized as a martyr and to be the patron saint of Deryni priests.
"If having a soul means being able to feel love, loyalty, and gratitude, then animals are better off than a lot of humans."

James Herriot (James Alfred "Alfie" Wight), when a human client asked him if animals have souls.  (I don't remember in which book the story originally appeared.)

Offline Evie

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Re: Campaign for the canonisation of Jorian
« Reply #8 on: March 10, 2015, 01:53:33 pm »
I imagine St. Jorian would be the patron saint of Deryni priests, wouldn't he?  That seems like it would be a given.

Darn all y'all for giving me more ideas for the stalled 1366 story.  :D

But yes, it does seem reasonable for him to be canonized as a martyr and to be the patron saint of Deryni priests.

Anything to help, DR.  ;)
"In necessariis unitas, in non-necessariis libertas, in utrisque caritas."

--WARNING!!!--
I have a vocabulary in excess of 75,000 words, and I'm not afraid to use it!

Offline revanne

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Re: Campaign for the canonisation of Jorian
« Reply #9 on: March 10, 2015, 04:29:15 pm »
I second...er...third the motion. Maybe someone can work in a few miracles worked by St. Jorian into their fanfic.

Umm... that's given me an idea :D

Let God rise up, let his enemies be scattered;
    let those who hate him flee before him.
As smoke is driven away, so drive them away;
    as wax melts before the fire,
    let the wicked perish before God.
(Psalm 68 vv1-2)

Offline DesertRose

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Re: Campaign for the canonisation of Jorian
« Reply #10 on: March 10, 2015, 09:57:55 pm »
I'm guessing we should ping KK about this, but if he is to be canonized (at least in fandom) as St. Jorian the Martyr, I would think his saint's day would be the day of his martyrdom/execution.

Aerlys, I think you know way more about this topic than I do.  Care to agree with me or correct me if I'm wrong?  :D
"If having a soul means being able to feel love, loyalty, and gratitude, then animals are better off than a lot of humans."

James Herriot (James Alfred "Alfie" Wight), when a human client asked him if animals have souls.  (I don't remember in which book the story originally appeared.)

Offline Aerlys

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Re: Campaign for the canonisation of Jorian
« Reply #11 on: March 10, 2015, 11:03:35 pm »
I would think his saint's day would be the day of his martyrdom/execution.

Aerlys, I think you know way more about this topic than I do.  Care to agree with me or correct me if I'm wrong?  :D

Yes, DR, usually a saint's feast day is the day they died. It is not unusual for two unrelated saints to have the same feast day, but normally one saint takes precedence in the liturgy, with either a commemoration of the other saint during Mass (a second collect/secret/postcommunion prayer), or no official Mass at all. Alternately, a second, private Mass for the saint may be said in some churches in lieu of the other saint. Sometimes, though, a feast day is observed on different day, but I would have to double check if there is a particular reason for it.

I would hazard a guess that St. Martin would take precedence, at least at first, across the 11 Kingdoms, but hopefully St. Jorian gets a commemoration. He may later merit a special Mass in Deryni congregations that may eventually take over Martinmas if his cultus becomes more popular, especially if he proves a more powerful intercession. Evie can fill us in on how that goes in her fanfic.  Those would he ever be become as popular as St.Camber?

"Loss and possession, death and life are one, There falls no shadow where there shines no sun."

Hilaire Belloc

Offline DesertRose

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Re: Campaign for the canonisation of Jorian
« Reply #12 on: March 10, 2015, 11:14:11 pm »
Thank you, Aerlys.  That's good information to have.  :)

I went nosing around online and found that a lot of days have multiple saints associated with them.

I have a germ of an idea that Denis Arilan might be the first person to campaign for the canonization of Jorian, maybe a few years after the events of KKB.  Hmm...

Patron saint of Deryni priests to be sure, but possibly also patron saint of martyred/murdered Deryni in general?
"If having a soul means being able to feel love, loyalty, and gratitude, then animals are better off than a lot of humans."

James Herriot (James Alfred "Alfie" Wight), when a human client asked him if animals have souls.  (I don't remember in which book the story originally appeared.)

Offline revanne

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Re: Campaign for the canonisation of Jorian
« Reply #13 on: March 11, 2015, 04:20:21 am »
I suspect that Arilan is going to have support from a possibly unexpected quarter and I already have an idea about the miracles.
Let God rise up, let his enemies be scattered;
    let those who hate him flee before him.
As smoke is driven away, so drive them away;
    as wax melts before the fire,
    let the wicked perish before God.
(Psalm 68 vv1-2)

Offline Evie

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Re: Campaign for the canonisation of Jorian
« Reply #14 on: March 11, 2015, 07:19:54 am »

Patron saint of Deryni priests to be sure, but possibly also patron saint of martyred/murdered Deryni in general?

I like this idea.
"In necessariis unitas, in non-necessariis libertas, in utrisque caritas."

--WARNING!!!--
I have a vocabulary in excess of 75,000 words, and I'm not afraid to use it!

 

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