Anvilers & Camberian Council

[Lochiel]

I just finished rereading  CM, which brought to my mind the Anvillers who are descendants of the Michaelines, and the Camberian Council more than a few of its members  including Camber/Alister , Joram, and Jebediah etc were Michaelines. Why was that connection cut off?  Sir Se would have been a excellent candidate.......

[Laurna]

I am hopeful that when KK writes about Killingford she will give us some knowledge about the Anvilers and what had happened to the Deryni that left Gwynedd. Also as some point it would be wonderful to learn more about Sir Se. Though sadly something must have happened to him for he was not there then Morgan had become an adult.

[Nezz]

Though sadly something must have happened to him for he was not there then Morgan had become an adult.

Agreed. 

[Lochiel]

I am so looking forward to that upcoming book.

[DoctorM]

Now here's a question worth considering-- what was the Deryni diaspora like? Where were the biggest concentrations of other, non-Gwynedd Deryni? Torenth, of course, but where else? And what knowledge did the diaspora spread? Or were the locals secure in their own knowledge (Healing, etc.) no matter what happened in Gwynedd?

[DerynifanK]

It would be great to know what happened to some of the characters from the earlier books who seemed to just disappear, not just Sir Se but also Llion who played such a big role in Alaric's early life and his sisters and cousins from Lendour. As we said before, so many stories and so little time.

[DoctorM]

So many stories, and so little time--- indeed so! We must write some ourselves, I suppose.

[DerynifanK]

IIRC Llion Farquahar, a knight of Lendour, was chosen by Kenneth to watch over and train his son while he himself was often with the king. He married Alaric's half sister, Alazais, but after Kenneth's death and Alarics move to Rhemuth he disappeared. and we did not hear anymore about him. Would love to hear more about the Morgan side of the family as well as Alaric's relatives in Lendour.

[Bynw]

Now here's a question worth considering-- what was the Deryni diaspora like? Where were the biggest concentrations of other, non-Gwynedd Deryni? Torenth, of course, but where else? And what knowledge did the diaspora spread? Or were the locals secure in their own knowledge (Healing, etc.) no matter what happened in Gwynedd?

We know that several displaced Deryni Lords moved their families and became lords in The Connait. The Forcinn also have a high Deryni population and so does Bezanthium (sp?)

[revanne]

Quite a lot were blocked in the baptizer cult fronted by Revan and I think that many of these lived on in the the border areas of Gwynedd and this is the origin of the border "Second Sight". Of course we don't really know what happened to the children of blocked Deryni - my own guess is that they were not blocked but living  in human environment would not recognise or develop their powers other than as this mysterious power that some had. Of course they would be vulnerable to random pogroms by the likes of Oliver de Nore and Lori's, especially those who had remained living in Gwynedd's heartland.

[Laurna]

First a little history of the Deryni race.
What is speculated in the Codex is that the Deryni originated in a land called Caeriesse. Before the year 200 a small colony of the Sea People, the Heldurnia, or Deryni developed in Kheldour. They "utterly destroyed" the legions of Byzantyun (Byzantyun and Rum were all human). In 525 Caeriesse sank beneath the sea. The Deryni moved to form the city of Valoret and help the Haldane kings and to form the city of Beldouria in Torenthaly. From that time forth, men of such magical means have been slowly infiltrating into all the royal houses. I mean to say, if you are Deryni, and there are not that many of your race, you have the power to gain wealth and the wealth to marry your daughters into royal houses. If the Festils had not been as greedy as they became, making the human race basically a slavery race, then they would not have caused the Gwynedd rebellion to fight back and reclaim the human's lost rights. The humans causing the Harrowing of 918 basically scattered the Deryni race into the far lands of the Eleven kingdoms. Where once again, people of subtle power can regain wealth and marry their daughters into rich and royal families.

When I was doing research for a story I hope to share in the future, I came across one example of the results of the Deryni abandoning Gwynedd. For a thousand years the people of R'Kassi were nomadic tribes described as being human.  But in 933, only a few years after the Harrowing, the dynasty of House of Rhupen comes to an end. And a new dynasty begins with the House of Al-Muttaub. The ruling kings are all of direct male descendants, and we know in Kelson's time, the royal family of R'Kassi are Deryni. I submit that the Deryni origin may have come from the refugees out of Gwynedd.

Another example is the kingdoms of Bremagne, Fallon, and Jaca. These kingdoms formed when Byzantyun fell. These kingdoms would have all been human at least through the years of 600 and very likely as late as 900s.

The Kingdom of Fallon which is adjacent to, and was a subsumed province of Bremagne until the year 843 when the ruling the house of ALberic made Fallon independent. It is not know when the Deryni trait entered the house d'Alberic of Fallon. However, we do know that a daughter of King Urien of Gwynedd (994-1025), Breida Princess Haldane, married Tancrede d'Alberic, Hereditary Prince of Fallon, on May 30, 1018. King Urien is a descendant of Camber and Breida's mother was a daughter of the R'Kassi king. I surmise their children where Deryni from that time forward. Now the question is, was Fallon Deryni before that? We also know that a princess of Fallon married the Duc of Joux some time in the first years of 1000 and that their third son was Lewys ap Norfal born 1015 and that Lewys was a strong Deryni. Just a note the Deryni line Joux were from the kings of Torenth. So was the Deryni trait of the Fallon kings married into it during the early or mid 900's maybe even possibly from the refuges of Gwynedd?

Likewise a second daughter of King Urien married the Bregmane king- Bethra Princess Haldane marries Theofrid Faucon III, Roi(King) de Bremagne (1006-1031)
However, they have no living sons, so the royal line goes back to Theofrid Faucon's uncle. Since we know the Faucon's of Bregmane are Deryni, then they must have become Deryni some generation before King Brion married Jehana. I do not recall the history to know if the original Deryni of House Faucon are from Torenth on the Duc du Joux line or from Gwynedd. Perhaps it is from both.

Who knows, in time if the Deryni keep their greed to a minimum, and the human race does not condemn them again, than it just might come to pass that the entire human race will slowly become Deryni through marriage. 

[Laurna]

Revanne, that could be an interesting concept that 2nd sight are those with untrained Deryni traits. Although I tend to think that second sight is older than the harrowing of Gwynedd. Second sight developed along the northern coast which was excessable to the Sea Island of Caeriesse. So when the people of Caeriesse abandoned their island when it sank, maybe they moved to all the Northern coastal main land. Not every Deryni has the same genetic strength to become a Deryni magi. And the knowledge had to be trained. So, perhaps those with lesser deryni power married the local folk and thus 2nd sight become part of their culture.
Fun to speculate.