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Author Topic: I just got my copy. . .  (Read 17725 times)

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Offline drakensis

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Re: I just got my copy. . .
« Reply #75 on: January 31, 2017, 03:40:45 am »
We do not have the exact date of Marek I's attack on Owain or how long it took for Uthyr to defeat Marek I.
I've done a little more digging and Marek's entry indicates that 'battle was joined' in Eastmarch in May and Owain died shortly thereafter, but Uthyr defeated Marek's Tolani army. The entire incident is mentioned as taking place between May and July.

I did not look up to see if the Death of Marek is documented, but it will likely be in the summer.
Well, he didn't die then, interestingly. He survived and lived until 981.

Was the plague also in the summer months when the rats and flees were at their most abundant?
The plague appears to have begun in very late March.

I believe you are right about Marek underestimating Uthyr's magic potential. Do you consider that Jorum and Tieg died at the same time as Owain, attempting to protect him, or perhaps failing that, succeeding in protecting Uthyr and his wife and son, Nygel?
It's certainly entirely possible (although Nygel was a package deal with Grania MacInnis at the time, not being born until after the crisis).

Offline Laurna

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Re: I just got my copy. . .
« Reply #76 on: January 31, 2017, 11:58:18 am »
The plague appears to have begun in very late March.
Quote
Owain...Intermarried with Anne Lady Fitz-Arthur Quinnell on the IInd day of May in the Year 947 and by her he had one child:  the Princess Marina, dead at the age of 1 week of the flux. Codex page 198
Then I will say that Owain's daughter died of the plauge in the spring of 948. i wonder if Lady Anne survived or if she too succummed to the sickness.

I've done a little more digging and Marek's entry indicates that 'battle was joined' in Eastmarch in May and Owain died shortly thereafter, but Uthyr defeated Marek's Tolani army. The entire incident is mentioned as taking place between May and July.
That might explain why Owain, heartbroken, went heedlessly into battle with Marek in May of 948.


I believe you are right about Marek underestimating Uthyr's magic potential. Do you consider that Jorum and Tieg died at the same time as Owain, attempting to protect him, or perhaps failing that, succeeding in protecting Uthyr and his wife and son, Nygel?
It's certainly entirely possible (although Nygel was a package deal with Grania MacInnis at the time, not being born until after the crisis).
If Grania was heavily pregnant with the only possible Haldane Heir after Owian's death. Than I can fully understand why Jorum and Tieg did everything in their power, even giving up their lives, to be certain that Prince Nygel and Lady Grania survived. That is the culmination of everything they and their families had stood for all their lives.
Interesting to note that Tieg's children had to go into hiding because of this. What ever happened would not have been looked upon too favorably by the human kings council or perhaps the church.

Well, he didn't die then, interestingly. He survived and lived until 981.
Interesting! This would then explain why Imer II the new Pretender as of 981 gathered his forces and attacked Marbury in the summer of 983. He was a middle aged man by then, making his bid for the Gwynedd crown when it was at last his turn to do so.

Offline drakensis

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Re: I just got my copy. . .
« Reply #77 on: January 31, 2017, 04:46:02 pm »
Princess Marissa is described as dying of the Flux almost a month before the Archbishop of Rhemuth is noted as being among the first victims of the plague. Which is strange, IMHO. A plague whose first victims include one of the most prominent men in the kingdom? Suspicious.

While losing his first child would likely have hurt Owain, the unfortunate fact is that these things happen. He would have been aware that royal blood was no defense against losing children and he'd have had his mother and uncle, not to mention his brother and his apparently close friend and brother-in-law Tambert of Cassan as support.

Lady Anne's fate doesn't seem to be mentioned so it seems likely she died at the same time although it must have been a hard time for her: losing her daughter, her husband, her brother (Tambert Fitz-Arthur Quinnell) and her father (Fane Fitz-Arthur) in rapid succession.

(Ironically, Queen Dowager Michaela Drummond survived both of her sons and two of her three grandsons, dying in 989 early in the reign of King Cluim. One suspects she was a quiet centre of strength for the Haldanes for years - in several ways. Given my assumption in fanfiction that Cluim hadn't been primed to carry the Haldane magic, this would likely suggest she was in a reduced capacity by the mid-980s - to be fair, she'd be in her 70s at that point - Rhysel died in 974 which could have severed the last direct connection to the Camberian Council).

Marek had already got King Arion's brother killed in 928 and now Arion's son and heir Karoly lost his arm (and the Patriarch of Torenth died!) in 948. I think it's fair to say that Marek was not the King of Torenth's favorite person and I doubt he was welcome in Beldour until Arion died in 972, passing the crown of Torenth to his grandson Malachy. It was Malachy's oldest son Nimur who was the advocate of the Festils of Tolan in the 980s (which cost him his life, then that of his father and the next brother in line).
« Last Edit: January 31, 2017, 04:49:00 pm by drakensis »

Offline r2005

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Re: I just got my copy. . .
« Reply #78 on: February 10, 2017, 03:06:53 pm »
The time  line in the back of The Deryni Archives offers either another hint to 948, but definitely a confusing wrinkle.

Under the 948 there are two lines:

Quote
Mark, son of Imre and Ariella, attempts to retake his throne.

In the century, Rolf MacPherson, a Deryni lord, rebels against the Camberian Council.

The first note has already been well discussed. The second, I really can't speculate on because I don't own the Codex.

I'm pretty sure that Rolf MacPherson was mentioned in passing in one of the Kelson era books. I don't remember which one off the top of my head, and that it was only a name drop.


ETA: I found the line in High Deryni.

Quote
There were and had always been renegade Deryni like Lewys ap Norfal, Rhydon of Eastmarch, Rolf MacPherson of the previous century - men who had rejected the Council's authority, or been expelled from its ranks, or even risen in outright rebellion.
« Last Edit: February 11, 2017, 03:30:28 pm by r2005 »
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Offline Laurna

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Re: I just got my copy. . .
« Reply #79 on: February 11, 2017, 06:32:13 pm »

ETA: I found the line in High Deryni.

Quote
There were and had always been renegade Deryni like Lewys ap Norfal, Rhydon of Eastmarch, Rolf MacPherson of the previous century - men who had rejected the Council's authority, or been expelled from its ranks, or even risen in outright rebellion.

I am glad you found the quote, that gives a little more light on the subject than the Codex does.  I tried to quote the codex last night but apparently my post was lost.

Quote
Codex page 220 "Rolf MacPherson, Lord.  ...born [April 3, 862]... second son of Jamie Baron MacPherson and Ellie Lady Godwin. He never married. This Deryni Lord of the Xth century is said to have rebelled against the authority of the Camberian Council on  [ May 11, 950]*. he died at an unknown date during the persecutions of the Deryni in Gwynedd, reportedly a bitter man, and is buried we know not where."

So, I am afraid this gives little information about 948 unless he was working with the CC in that year and then rebelled against the new members of the CC (since many of the original members had died in 948) two years later. I gather that because he was a Lord, he had inherited some land, but it does not state that he was the Baron as his father was. So his older brother must have carried on the family Barony.

* sorry, I had the wrong date. It was XI[11] day of May,  not IX; my dyslexia is showing. lol
« Last Edit: February 12, 2017, 01:51:31 am by Laurna »

Offline r2005

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Re: I just got my copy. . .
« Reply #80 on: February 11, 2017, 09:23:03 pm »
Quote
Codex page 220 "Rolf MacPherson, Lord.  ...born [April 3, 862]... second son of Jamie Baron MacPherson and Ellie Lady Gdwin. He never married. This Deryni Lord of the Xth century is said to have rebelled against the authority of the Camberian Council on  [ May 9, 950]. he died at an unknown date during the persecutions of the Deryni in Gwynedd, reportedly a bitter man, and is buried we know not where."

So, I am afraid this gives little information about 948 unless he was working with the CC in that year and then rebelled against the new members of the CC (since many of the original members had died in 948) two years later. I gather that because he was a Lord, he had inherited some land, but it does not state that he was the Baron as his father was. So his older brother must have carried on the family Barony.


For many years, I thought that the rebellion against the CC was just another layer to the chaos that happens in 948 based on the information I had. Now having the Codex date, it does make sense that the rebellion comes a bit later. I agree that there has to be some sort of power vacuum in the CC after losing so many important members.

Rolf being a member of the CC could go either way, in my opinion. Since there's so little information about him, I really can't made an educated guess in either direction.

I'm sure like the Lewys ap Norfal stuff, KK has kept the Rolf MacPherson stuff under wraps just to keep us interested and guessing. :)
No matter how you're heart is grieving if you keep on believing the dream that you wish will come true

 

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