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Author Topic: I just got my copy. . .  (Read 18166 times)

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Offline Elkhound

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I just got my copy. . .
« on: October 30, 2014, 10:56:41 pm »
. . .and find it interesting. 

First, I've found some people who share the names and some of the biography of primary-world historical figures, but changed just a little to fit into the history and geography of the Dernyverse.

Second, I've found some wonderful plays on words.  For example, a court official called Kale, Lord Pemberly.  If you look at the names of his children. . . well, look it up for yourself.

And, of course, although not a Janeite, the title "Pemberly". . . .

Offline Evie

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Re: I just got my copy. . .
« Reply #1 on: October 31, 2014, 10:00:51 am »
Yes, the Codex is a treasure trove!  Have lots of fun exploring it.  Some of the information needs to be updated since the latest books have come out (the Childe Morgan books), but KK has hopes for a third edition in an electronic format that will be easy to update with subsequent books, if she can get the original files back from Robert Reginald's widow and find someone else who can help with putting that project together for her.
"In necessariis unitas, in non-necessariis libertas, in utrisque caritas."

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Offline tenworld

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Re: I just got my copy. . .
« Reply #2 on: October 31, 2014, 01:39:00 pm »
I'd be happy to work on a team editing this, researching specific topics.  I have a background writing technical articles and editing reports, and as Sir Alaric Clark said, "any sufficiently advanced magic is indistinguishable from technology"

I am curious, has any fanfiction made it into the Codex?

Offline Evie

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Re: I just got my copy. . .
« Reply #3 on: October 31, 2014, 02:05:13 pm »
I believe that the characters and events that were professionally published in Deryni Tales and Deryni Archives, but which were originally published in the Deryni Archives fanzine, ended up in the Codex.  But other than that, no.  On the other hand, several fanfiction characters were inspired by characters who previously only existed in the Codex.  For instance, all of my younger Arilans were named for the children listed under Jamyl Arilan's Codex entry, even though they haven't even been born yet in the canonical books.  (The ones that have been published already, that is.  I can't speak for what might be found in The King's Deryni when it comes out in December.)
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Offline drakensis

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Re: I just got my copy. . .
« Reply #4 on: November 02, 2014, 05:21:24 am »
It's an amazing resource. I've started a Deryni fic for NaNoWriMo and pretty much everything I needed for research was right there.

Lest you think I'm kidding, I've a list of 30-40 characters that have never appeared in novels but were right there in the Codex, ready for me to flesh out and use. It's saved me the strain of thinking up names (often the hardest part for me) for characters all over the place.


Offline Evie

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Re: I just got my copy. . .
« Reply #5 on: November 02, 2014, 08:31:25 am »
It's an amazing resource. I've started a Deryni fic for NaNoWriMo

That's some happy news to wake up to!  ;D
"In necessariis unitas, in non-necessariis libertas, in utrisque caritas."

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Offline drakensis

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Re: I just got my copy. . .
« Reply #6 on: November 08, 2014, 11:00:48 pm »
Since I woke absurdly early today I finished some supplementary work for the fic and thought I may as well post it here. Pertinent in that pretty much all of this is information from the Codex, simply presented a little differently:





« Last Edit: November 23, 2014, 01:57:33 pm by drakensis »

Offline Evie

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Re: I just got my copy. . .
« Reply #7 on: November 09, 2014, 10:05:03 am »
Cool! If I'm reading these correctly, Kelson's MacRorie descent comes through both sides of his family--via Malcolm Haldane and his heirs on his paternal side, and via Bethra Haldane's marriage to Theofrid III of Bremagne on his mother's. Paired with the Haldane potential that was already present in the Haldane line prior to Swynbeth's marriage into the dynasty, that would seem to make Kelson a double force to be reckoned with.  ;D
"In necessariis unitas, in non-necessariis libertas, in utrisque caritas."

--WARNING!!!--
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Offline drakensis

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Re: I just got my copy. . .
« Reply #8 on: November 09, 2014, 12:05:36 pm »
It's quite possible that Jehana may be descended from Jacan or Fallon royalty as well, which could double-up that side, although I don't think we've enough information on Bremagne genealogy to account for it.

Also Grania MacInnis is grand-daughter of Richeldis MacLean and of course Rhys Michael's wife was Deryni. For the first century or so after the Restoration, the Haldanes were consistently bringing additional Deryni blood into the succession.

For irony, Swynbeth's brothers also have interesting descendants. While Morgan's genealogy lecture in the Bishop's Heir doesn't fit with the other sources in all respects it's confirmed that his paternal grandmother was a sister to a Duke of Cassan - a grandson of Tambert you you see there. Not only is this where he and Duncan get their MacRorie blood, if we accept that Caitrin's children had a claim on Cassan senior to Morgan's then this would have meant that Loris' scheme to replace Haldanes with the House of Quinnell would have simply elevated another branch of the MacRorie descendants. (As it happens the Codex debunks this but Caitrin is still a MacRorie descendant since Cluim had a daughter, not on the charts above, who married a King of Howicce and Caitrin is daughter of a later Howiccean princess).

Oh and Flynn, father of the O'Flynn family there? Mellish O'Flynn's great-great-great-grandson's name is Sean, better known as Derry!

Offline Laurna

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Re: I just got my copy. . .
« Reply #9 on: November 09, 2014, 03:11:10 pm »
Quote
Oh and Flynn, father of the O'Flynn family there? Mellish O'Flynn's great-great-great-grandson's name is Sean, better known as Derry!
There is a line I had not followed. Sean you've some Deryni blood after all. I thought it should be there but I had not followed it that far.
I have followed most of the Haldane, Morgan, Cynfyn, and Cassan lines as you have listed above. Well done. Flynn's descendents are a new treat.

I have been trying to concentrate on Lady Jerusha Thuryn Drummond. She married Sir Cathan Drummond and had three children. Lady Kyriella, Lord Corwin, Lady Evalina.  Kyriella married Stuart Lord MacAthan whom was the head of the family MacAthan(named from his grandfather Cathan MacRorie), and Sief MacAthan's ancestor. I think this makes Sief, Camber's most direct heir.  I question how many generations are between these two men being as there is nearly 100 years unaccounted for. We do not know what happened to Sief's daughters. I hope we get to find our in the new book.
I am also interested in Jerusha's other two children, and their children. There should be some hidden Healing abilities in this line as well as in Tieg's line.
 
It is almost like playing with Ancestry.com.
« Last Edit: January 31, 2015, 04:17:19 am by Laurna »

Offline drakensis

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Re: I just got my copy. . .
« Reply #10 on: November 10, 2014, 02:56:55 am »
I quite agree at how interesting it is.

In addition to Jerusha and Tieg's descendants, one thing I'm curious to pick up on is how Elinor Howell, Coel Howell and Corban Howell are related. I've a vague recollection that Elinor and Coel may be siblings, but I'm not clear where Corban fits in. The Howells seem to have been a powerful family in their day.

Also looking at the post-Restoration Haldanes, Rhys' sons are half-Deryni through their mother and his grandsons are also half-Deryni since both their parents are half-Deryni. And then Cluim married a quarter-Deryni so his children are 3/8ths Deryni...

I'm beginning to wonder if the Haldane potential actively suppresses normal Deryni talents until the potential is activated. Otherwise I'm not sure how Urien's brother Jashan managed to become a priest given the precautions taken by the Church. He should be almost as vulnerable to Merasha as Morgan or Duncan are. Perhaps the merasha-testing was something that arose later?

Offline Laurna

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Re: I just got my copy. . .
« Reply #11 on: November 10, 2014, 03:08:12 am »
Drakensis, I am sorry to point this out. But in looking up "Derry" in the Codex, Lord Flynn Fitz-Arthur Quinnell is the Second son of Tambert I, Duke of Cassan. Sorry, Lord Flynn is Duke Tammarron's younger brother instead of his son.  I keep trying to tie Sean to the genealogy but I have not found it yet. 

Quote
I'm beginning to wonder if the Haldane potential actively suppresses normal Deryni talents until the potential is activated. Otherwise I'm not sure how Urien's brother Jashan managed to become a priest given the precautions taken by the Church.

That is a very enlightened thought. Interesting idea.

Swynbeth is Duke Tammarron's daughter by Tiphane Ainslie(daughter of Rhysel Thuryn and Robert Ainslie.) I think Robert is human (please correct me if I am wrong), causing Tiphane to be only 1/2 Deryni.  Tiphane marries the Duke of Cassan  who is human. Therefore, I believe Their children are human,  ie Swynbeth is human and does not pass the outward Deryni traits to the Haldane line. However, recessive traits may remain hidden until more Deryni blood is added to the Haldane blood line.  The same could be said for Fane Fitz-Arthur Quinnel who becomes the next Duke of Cassan. The recessive Deryni traits (such as Healing)stay hidden until a 100 years later when the Deryni twin sister Vera (de Corwyn)Howard McLain(Cynfyn) marries the Duke of Cassan to give birth to Duncan. 
« Last Edit: November 10, 2014, 04:08:41 am by Laurna »

Offline drakensis

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Re: I just got my copy. . .
« Reply #12 on: November 11, 2014, 03:00:24 am »
Hmm. You're right about Derry. That's a shame (the lack of connection, not your correcting me, for which I thank you humbly). I've corrected my charts.

On the other point I suppose in inheritance terms it just goes to show that the depth of Deryni ancestry isn't the key factor in determining the extent of one's Deryni capability. And of course then there is ability to master those capabilities - Wencit seems convinced that his nephew Aldred isn't especially adept in comparison to the younger Charissa and Morgan (Morgan would probably be flattered given how scathing he can be about his own capabilities).
« Last Edit: November 11, 2014, 03:03:31 am by drakensis »

Offline Laurna

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Re: I just got my copy. . .
« Reply #13 on: November 11, 2014, 04:14:26 am »
Quote
Hmm. You're right about Derry. That's a shame (the lack of connection, not your correcting me, for which I thank you humbly). I've corrected my charts.
Drakensis,  there is no need to be humble. I have seen some one else place Sean Derry in Camber's descendent charts before(I can not find that reference now that I am looking for it). This made me wonder if there is another comment in the codex somewhere that I have not seen.  Or if that was just an error. I like to think that Sean has some Deryni blood even if way back.

If you have not seen these two sites, you might like to have a look.
 http://home.comcast.net/~oakgrove47/library/cam_desc.htm     This is a nice list of Camber's Descendents.
 http://www.mindspring.com/~rebldavis/home.html                     This is an amazing set of pedigree charts.

Don't let these two sites stop you from making your own charts.  There is a lot of enjoyment to be had in the self discovery of who is who in this World of Gwynedd.

The one thing I searched for high and low is not to be found at either of these two sites, nor in the Codex. It was that unanswered question that caused me to write some fan fiction. Alaric's descending from Rhys. I know the connection must exist. It just has too! Someday KK will enlighten us.  Or so I hope.
« Last Edit: November 11, 2014, 04:18:24 am by Laurna »

Offline drakensis

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Re: I just got my copy. . .
« Reply #14 on: November 11, 2014, 02:00:51 pm »
Unless I'm very much mistaken, Alaric Morgan is indeed descended from Rhys Thuryn and the answer I found is in the Codex.

And I promise I'm not discouraged. I was part-way through drawing up my fourth version of a combined genealogy when I broke off the work on my current fic and I expect I'll get back to it once I'm done.

 

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