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Author Topic: Help  (Read 6543 times)

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Offline revanne

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Help
« on: April 11, 2014, 03:37:19 pm »
I haven't written anything at all other than essays and sermons ( except articles for the Parish magazine which don't quite count as fiction) since school days and I feel very unsure of even trying given the standard on this board. But you are all so nice - so some help please.

Firstly how do I get Joram out of my head - you'd have thought that a Priest would know better than to harass a fellow member of the clergy in the run up to Easter, but will the man stop mithering me? No!!!

What I want ( he wants me??) to explore is what happens from the deryni point of view between Javan's murder and TBP ( BTW why does no-one ever point out to Rhys Michael that it was his fault.. Sorry just needed to get that out). I think I understand that it is ok to use a canonical character ( courtesy of Katherine's generosity) providing you stay within appropriate bounds of characterisation - so Joram would not engage in any form of sexual inpropriety, neither can I see him denying his priesthood. I can feel a lot of unexpressed angst though and am fascinated from a spiritual point of view as to how he copes with all that has happened?

Also how far is it ok to make links that are not there in the book - e.g. supposing that the Servants of St. Camber (QFSC) are not just a lucky survival but a planned underground community.
I just wanted to check out the limits before I even think of putting pen to paper ; if I ever do -and it will take forever - I will arrange for a whope shipment of red pens for Evie
"All the world’s a stage,
And all the men and women merely players;
They have their exits and their entrances;
And one man in his time plays many parts."
As You Like It.

Offline Shiral

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Re: Help
« Reply #1 on: April 11, 2014, 03:54:16 pm »
Maybe Joram doesn't realize it's almost Easter in 2014?  ;)

 I know how you feel about Rhysem--I often wanted to smack him during KJY. Then I softened in Bastard Prince, because he FINALLY figured out Regents=BAD. He paid a heck of a price for his obtuseness, And he was the one who loosened their choke-hold on the Haldane dynasty.

I've never been a fan of slash fic, and I'm pretty sure Joram would disapprove, too.  Easy enough  to write good fanfic without it. And it would definitely be more true to KK's characters.

Melissa
You can have a sound mind in a healthy body--Or you can be a nanonovelist!

Offline revanne

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Re: Help
« Reply #2 on: April 11, 2014, 04:41:17 pm »
Totally agree about slash fic, characters have to be true to themselves otherwise they are not the characters as written. Which ties in with another recent thread about television adaptations and the dangers of sensationalising KK's stories.

Sort of agree about Rhysem I just hate what happens to Javan


"All the world’s a stage,
And all the men and women merely players;
They have their exits and their entrances;
And one man in his time plays many parts."
As You Like It.

Offline Jerusha

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Re: Help
« Reply #3 on: April 11, 2014, 04:47:49 pm »
I would LOVE to read a Joram fanfic - so please, write on!

You can be true to KK's characters and the world of the Eleven Kingdoms, but still explore interesting plot lines and introduce new twists and turns.  That's what makes playing in KK's sandbox fun.  That and knowing you have the support of this incredible forum.

I've never sent Evie a bunch of red pens, but I've sent her lots of extra commas!   ;)
From ghoulies and ghosties and long-leggity beasties and things that go bump in the night...good Lord deliver us!

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Offline DesertRose

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Re: Help
« Reply #4 on: April 11, 2014, 05:09:33 pm »
Here are the rules for writing fanfiction if you want to post it here.  http://www.rhemuthcastle.com/index.php/topic,442.0.html

Pretty simple, really.  I don't think KK minds you drawing connections that aren't in canon as long as you don't go too far afield.
"If having a soul means being able to feel love, loyalty, and gratitude, then animals are better off than a lot of humans."

James Herriot (James Alfred "Alfie" Wight), when a human client asked him if animals have souls.  (I don't remember in which book the story originally appeared.)

Offline Evie

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Re: Help
« Reply #5 on: April 11, 2014, 06:20:02 pm »
Here are the rules for writing fanfiction if you want to post it here.  http://www.rhemuthcastle.com/index.php/topic,442.0.html

Pretty simple, really.  I don't think KK minds you drawing connections that aren't in canon as long as you don't go too far afield.

I think the rules in the link above are fairly self explanatory, but what I also found helpful is to consider the level of violence and sexuality in KK's books, and then use that as a guideline for my own boundaries.  In US movie terms, that put most of my stories anywhere between what would be a PG-13 to possibly a very mild R rating (for the level of still mostly implied violence in "Possessed"); translate into your country's terms as needed. 

And yes, do keep the characters' actions believably in character consistent to how they acted in the books, although of course the situations you put them in may vary quite a bit from anything KK put them into.  Joram wouldn't show up at a Camberian Council meeting dressed in drag and doing the hula.  For that matter, even if he's in a Doctor Who crossover story (to pick a wildly non-KK-universe option just for kicks and grins), he should still remain true to his character.  He might wear a black shirt with a clerical collar, or even just a regular T-shirt and jeans, in a Deryni time travel story that has him somehow ending up in modern-day Gwynedd, for instance.  That wouldn't be too much of a stretch to imagine.  If, however, he's cruising the London night scene crashing parties dressed like Lady Gaga....no, I don't think so.  Readers' disbelief suspended by the neck until quite dead.    :D  I wrote one story in which I deliberately set out to break every rule in that link above.  Just one, just for kicks and grins, and to give DesertRose heart failure, because I'm a sassy puppy that way.  And no, it's never seen the light of day on this forum (or anywhere else besides private email) and it never will, because I don't want KK to kill me!   ;D

I'd love to see your story, and I promise not to eviscerate it with my pens, red or otherwise.  I'm a teacher at heart, not a torturer.   :)  Just be careful, because this quote...

Quote
I haven't written anything at all ...since school days and I feel very unsure of even trying given the standard on this board....

...reminds me very much of Annie when she started posting her first stories here in fear and trembling, and now she's working on Changers of Chandris Book 3.  Be careful what roads you start down; you never know where they might lead you!   ;D
"In necessariis unitas, in non-necessariis libertas, in utrisque caritas."

--WARNING!!!--
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Offline Shiral

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Re: Help
« Reply #6 on: April 12, 2014, 02:01:24 am »
I'm all for experimentation in fan fic. I've even read some slash fic.  When it's written with some skill and when enough attention is paid to the storyline so that it's half-way believable that the romantic pair would in fact meet and have romantic feelings for one another and the time and sufficient motive to have a tryst, I don't mind it. What makes me roll my eyes about slash fic is if  the entire story turns into a complete logic-tormenting and unbelievable saga to force very unlikely and completely incompatible people out of character and "into one another's arms"  for no other reason than the fan author wanted to make it happen. 

    I'm always intrigued by the relationship of Jebediah and Alister Cullen. It suggests to me that the two could have been at least platonic lovers. There's a built in risk because if discovered, it would cause a huge scandal in the Order--the Michaelines ran a well-disciplined house.  Either Jebediah or Alister or both of them could have been thrown out of the Order in disgrace. To say nothing of the nature of their religious vows and genuine piety on both their parts. All of which could have been enough to keep their friendship on the entirely blameless level of two brother knights in a fighting Order.    I also like it that KK never really  confirms or denies the nature of their relationship, so it's possible to think  "Yes they were". And also "No, they weren't." A slash fic portraying the two of them would actually make a bit of sense, because they're already a sympathetic and intriguing pair often thrown together, but forbidden a more romantic form of attachment because of the times their non-permissive society, and the celibate life they've both chosen.

However...that's not a story I'd plan to write.

Melissa
You can have a sound mind in a healthy body--Or you can be a nanonovelist!

Offline AnnieUK

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Re: Help
« Reply #7 on: April 12, 2014, 03:49:22 am »
Revanne, I felt physically sick the first time I posted on here. Honestly, I was just ridiculously scared.

But beware. It is as addictive as crack. And honestly, if I'd known *how* addictive, I don't know if I'd ever have written that first short story!

If you want to bash ideas around, Evie, Alkari, and I used to meet in chat quite frequently to talk plots. I'm sure Evie and I could do the same with you, if you want.

Offline revanne

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Re: Help
« Reply #8 on: April 12, 2014, 11:46:50 am »
"even if he's in a Doctor Who crossover story"

now that's a thought. Don't know how much Dr. Who you get your side of the water but the Dr Who before last David Tennant was quite repressed angstie which is how I see Joram - wrong air colour though. He wore black a lot as well, though I have to confess not a clerical collar. I saw David Tennant earlier this year in Richard II - quite wonderful after he has fallen from power - now I can't get that out of my head either. So if the story about how Joram copes with the destruction of all that he has worked for has overtones of Doctor Who, it's not my fault.

Have a couple of weeks holiday coming up early May, so if I'm feeling really brave might try pen to paper then.

Thank you all for helpful advice

Have a blessed Easter
"All the world’s a stage,
And all the men and women merely players;
They have their exits and their entrances;
And one man in his time plays many parts."
As You Like It.

Offline Evie

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Re: Help
« Reply #9 on: April 12, 2014, 12:55:18 pm »

 I'm always intrigued by the relationship of Jebediah and Alister Cullen. It suggests to me that the two could have been at least platonic lovers. There's a built in risk because if discovered, it would cause a huge scandal in the Order--the Michaelines ran a well-disciplined house.  Either Jebediah or Alister or both of them could have been thrown out of the Order in disgrace. To say nothing of the nature of their religious vows and genuine piety on both their parts. All of which could have been enough to keep their friendship on the entirely blameless level of two brother knights in a fighting Order.    I also like it that KK never really  confirms or denies the nature of their relationship, so it's possible to think  "Yes they were". And also "No, they weren't." A slash fic portraying the two of them would actually make a bit of sense, because they're already a sympathetic and intriguing pair often thrown together, but forbidden a more romantic form of attachment because of the times their non-permissive society, and the celibate life they've both chosen.

There is an author on Fanfiction.net who has written a couple of stories in which the Arilan/Cardiel bond is implied to be stronger than best friends, yet due to their religious vocations and commitment to their vows it hasn't crossed over to anything overtly physical.  (Or if it has, that isn't actually portrayed in the stories; they're deliberately ambiguous enough to let the reader decide if they've ever acted on those feelings or not, though given how both are portrayed in canon, my personal tendency is to not read things going that far between them, especially in bonfire-happy Gwynedd!) I think they were posted before there was a KK section of the site, so you have to search for the characters by name to find them.  One of the stories deals with Arilan turning to Cardiel for comfort after Kelson's apparent death, and the other deals with Cardiel's reaction to the rapes and pillaging at the convent in Meara. In both stories, the slash element is subdued enough that the stories can be read as being from the point of view of a grieving man wishing for the comfort and good counsel of his closest confidant and nothing more than that, though the love between the two men is portrayed in such a way that it's clear that, whatever bond they share, it goes well beyond the average friendship.  The stories work because they are deliberately ambiguous. It's left to the reader to decide if they're just exceptionally close friends or have crossed over to something more.  I tend to read then in canon as just very close friends myself, but these two stories are so sensitively written, and capture the heart of these men so well (especially Arilan's grief over Kelson), that I consider them favorites even though slash is normally not my cup of tea at all.
« Last Edit: April 12, 2014, 01:14:45 pm by Evie »
"In necessariis unitas, in non-necessariis libertas, in utrisque caritas."

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Offline Evie

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Re: Help
« Reply #10 on: April 12, 2014, 01:03:49 pm »
revanne, we're up to the twelfth Doctor here, my daughter has a David Tennant poster on her bedroom door, and Tardis keychains and other Doctor Who knickknacks scattered all over the place. I think you could safely say we've mostly caught up, though I think you get to see new episodes before we get them here on BBC America or Netflix.

I've even got little Tardis earrings.   ;D
"In necessariis unitas, in non-necessariis libertas, in utrisque caritas."

--WARNING!!!--
I have a vocabulary in excess of 75,000 words, and I'm not afraid to use it!

Offline Laurna

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Re: Help
« Reply #11 on: April 12, 2014, 01:11:38 pm »
I would love to read a Joram story, Revanne. Though I fear it would be a sad one after the devastation of KJY. The idea that he helped start the Servant of Saint Camber is a sound one. It is possible that in 200 years they lost their beginning charters and only kept their ideals; Lendour is known to be a harsh land. I always felt that was the Servant's origins from the first rooms in which Dhugal breaks into with the real shiral crystal nets over the tomes.
Also I am an avid Dr Who fan and I love David Tennant. I don't know if I would cast him as Joram(I have not seen Richard II) but definitely helping Joram in his time of greatest need after KJY would be his thing. Perhaps a dream like visit to King Kelson's time to prove that all his troubles have purpose. Though after the trip the Tartis would make Joram think it was all a dream.
Have a blessed Easter and then enjoy the world of writing.
Like Annie said, it is an addiction. A good one.
« Last Edit: April 12, 2014, 01:13:53 pm by Laurna »

Offline derynifanatic64

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Re: Help
« Reply #12 on: April 12, 2014, 07:15:04 pm »
I've been a fan of Doctor Who since 1980 when it first aired in the US.   I just bought "The Day of the Doctor" with Matt Smith, David Tennant, and John Hurt today.  I would love to take a trip in the Tardis.  I have books, VHS tapes, and DVD's.  Doctor Who was a question on Jeopardy last night.
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Offline Aerlys

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Re: Help
« Reply #13 on: April 12, 2014, 08:11:12 pm »
I hate it when threads get away from me. (Oh well, got a lot of housework done.)

Please write a Joram fanific, though I won't promise to read it until my own is done, LOL! Joram really is one of my favorite characters, and he reminds me of priests I have known and admired. Tavis captures my imagination, as well, though I'm far from ready to write much with him...yet.

My own Camber-era fanfic started out many years ago as a private writing exercise for my own enjoyment. Since it was non-canonical (alternate timeline), I revisited it after coming to the boards, and began revisions. Annie is right -- talk about addictive! Now it barely resembles the original storyline, and there's a whole lot that needs to happen before I even get to Joram. I found myself researching everything from Vikings, to the Faroe Islands, to the architecture of round churches, to Medieval ships. Before I knew it, my characters started taking over; some are even demanding that I tackle their backstory before finishing what is supposed to be my main story.

Unfortunately, I have no one near me I can toss ideas around with. And, quite frankly, I'm such a big chicken (and a perfectionist) that I'm not even sure I could share my rough drafts without tossing my cookies.

**Sigh** Done venting now.

So long as you're not as neurotic as I am, you should be just fine.  ;D

Meh, duty calls.  I'll add my own two cents about he relationship of Jebediah and Alister Cullen when I have more time...

.

"Loss and possession, death and life are one, There falls no shadow where there shines no sun."

Hilaire Belloc

Offline AnnieUK

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Re: Help
« Reply #14 on: April 13, 2014, 04:23:16 am »
Aerlys, same goes for you. I love plotting (one reason mine always end up so darn complicated!), so I'm always ready to toss ideas about.

 

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